Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[PoppyBear]

If this is true...That's about as "In yo face" as you can get. Elitism much?

Lots of elitism in this story. IMO.

 

[PoppyBear]

DBM because double post.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I was doing some digging about OSHA’s footprint in the movie industry. Check out this article, though it is dated (2015), there is some interesting stuff - especially in the comments - referring to “payroll companies” acting as the employer of record. It begs the question - to whom would someone on a set report unsafe conditions? In a situation like the Rust production, where there are multiple entities backing the film, who would they report as being the employer? And would the reporter of unsafe conditions be blacklisted from further opportunities for having made a report?

Stricter OSHA Reporting Guidelines For Film & TV Sets Start Jan. 1 – Deadline

 

[GRT]

I totally get what you’re saying, and it makes sense. I just wonder if someone put it in there not trying to specifically murder someone, but also didn’t really care. Making a point and if something terrible happens, so be it. If the bullet HAD been caught by say the AD or even AB, the armorer would have been shown for how reckless she was. If the worst happened, then oh well, the armorer (and others) would all be in big trouble. I don’t know, but it’s a way I can make the bullet getting into the gun make sense.

I think you're on the right track with this. Live rounds don't just happen to get on a set--they have to be brought on. Live rounds don't just accidentally fall into the cylinder, someone has to load them.

The more I hear and read about the issues going on, the more I think there was a lot of tension. Plus, when it comes to union/non-union workers, it can turn violent.

Of course, if anyone loaded a live round in there purposefully, he/she would not know the outcome. It could have been found and removed, or it could have been shot at a target.

Then there's still AB. Even if a live round was loaded on purpose, he picked up a gun, pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger. That's something.

 

[Cool Cats]

‘Rust’ film set shooting ‘puzzling,’ not ‘surprising,’ says former Hollywood crew fixer: ‘Maybe it’s cynicism’

And if Baldwin had bothered checking himself, he could have flipped out on others. Instead he became a person who killed someone with a gun because he didn’t check himself. It certainly is not like he isn’t capable of checking himself. Had this been a different actor, this may very well have to happened IMO. AB said it himself. This is “one in a trillion”. He was part of the chain of custody of the weapon and I am failing to understand why he lacks culpability.

The investigation isn't completed yet so it's not official that Alec lacks culpability.

Alex has the "out" of saying what he has been saying and that is that he was told it was a cold gun by the AD and the AD is at fault for not checking the gun.

According to top professional armorers being interviewed the proper protocol is for the armorer to directly show the actor that the gun is unloaded and then to directly hand the actor the gun.

The Rust AD said that the armorer showed him the gun but he doesn't remember it very well.

This is insane.

 

[mickey2942]

I was doing some digging about OSHA’s footprint in the movie industry. Check out this article, though it is dated (2015), there is some interesting stuff - especially in the comments - referring to “payroll companies” acting as the employer of record. It begs the question - to whom would someone on a set report unsafe conditions? In a situation like the Rust production, where there are multiple entities backing the film, who would they report as being the employer? And would the reporter of unsafe conditions be blacklisted from further opportunities for having made a report?

Stricter OSHA Reporting Guidelines For Film & TV Sets Start Jan. 1 – Deadline

Hate to say it. Where I used to work, if you reported a serious safety problem, the solution was to "get rid of the 'problem'.", meaning...the person who made the report.

 

[steeltowngirl]

And if Baldwin had bothered checking himself, he could have flipped out on others. Instead he became a person who killed someone with a gun because he didn’t check himself. It certainly is not like he isn’t capable of checking himself. Had this been a different actor, this may very well have to happened IMO. AB said it himself. This is “one in a trillion”. He was part of the chain of custody of the weapon and I am failing to understand why he lacks culpability.

Verified Attorney @gitana1 provided an explanation about legal culpability in several posts on Thread #2, starting at post #320.

 

[PoppyBear]

‘Rust’ film set shooting ‘puzzling,’ not ‘surprising,’ says former Hollywood crew fixer: ‘Maybe it’s cynicism’


The investigation isn't completed yet so it's not official that Alec lacks culpability.

Alex has the "out" of saying what he has been saying and that is that he was told it was a cold gun by the AD and the AD is at fault for not checking the gun.

According to top professional armorers being interviewed the proper protocol is for the armorer to directly show the actor that the gun is unloaded and then to directly hand the actor the gun.

The Rust AD said that the armorer showed him the gun but he doesn't remember it very well.

This is insane.

I understand and I should have said “could lack culpability”

If the normal protocol wasn’t followed, It tells me Alec didn’t follow protocol himself. Why on earth would AB pull the trigger if he hadn’t been shown? Was AB himself in a rush at the moment?

 

[Cool Cats]

Hate to say it. Where I used to work, if you reported a serious safety problem, the solution was to "get rid of the 'problem'.", meaning...the person who made the report.

Glad to hear you don't work there anymore.

 

[Kiranerys]

Apparently they were plotting out the whole move of AB pulling the gun out of his holster, cocking it, aiming and pulling the trigger. No idea whether it was all one smooth movement, or done in a slow sequence or whatever, but presumably it would be a key dramatic moment, and the cinematographer/director would be discussing exactly how to capture it, shot by shot.

For example, the scene might show a wide shot of him standing up, then cut to a close up of his hand on the holster pulling the gun, then pull back a little to show his upper body while raising his arm, then a wide shot of him from behind aiming at the victim and cocking the gun, then a close up of the gun shooting directly at the camera. They would be talking about how to efficiently shoot it: they don't just set up a camera and take one 5 second video, AB would have to do exactly the same move dozens of times while the camera is moved into different positions.

ETA: IMO the dummy rounds would enable the trigger to actually click realistically.

JMO

I'm also wondering,although I know absolutely zero about guns so could be way off, but could the dummy rounds be to do with weight too? So that the move is consistent?. What I mean is that is it possible that the move would be different if the gun was lighter if it contained no ammo at all so the action of drawing it may be slightly off as opposed to a loaded gun?. I realise it would not be a big difference but is it a possibility?

ETA Read further down thread and I see @Antimony has already suggested the same thing

 

[Luna20]

According to this piece on the previous film HGR worked on crew members intervened and demanded filming be stopped until she properly checked the firearms.

“However, that is not how production sources from The Old Way described their experience working with Gutierrez-Reed. “There were several concerns I brought to production’s attention,” one said. “I have been around firearms my entire life and noticed some things that were not OK even with loaded blank firearms.”

Another source said, compared to other sets they had been on, there was considerably less attention to gun safety under Gutierrez-Reed watch.

The most troubling incident occurred when Gutierrez-Reed allegedly loaded a gun on the ground where the area was filled with pebbles, then without properly checking the weapon, handed it to child actress Ryan Kiera Armstrong, both sources
told The Daily Beast.

Concerned crew members intervened, demanding filming be stopped until Gutierrez-Reed had properly checked the firearm, the two sources said”

‘Inexperienced’ Armorer on Baldwin Set Raised Alarm Bells on Prior Film

 

[Kiranerys]

But it still could be close to 100% on her if she had told the AD flat out that it was a cold gun.

The AD had a reason to think it was cold....Hummm...

Now why did he think that?

Because he didn't pay proper attention when she showed it to him!

 

[Cool Cats]

I understand and I should have said “could lack culpability”

If the normal protocol wasn’t followed, It tells me Alec didn’t follow protocol himself. Why on earth would AB pull the trigger if he hadn’t been shown? Was AB himself in a rush at the moment?

Yup. Why bother being shown when it's quicker to just have someone hand you the gun telling you it's cold?

Let someone else worry about the gun's fitness, the actor is more concerned with how he looks drawing the gun.

 

[Cool Cats]

Because he didn't pay proper attention when she showed it to him!

Then she showed him (the AD) a live round and missed it herself. The buck stops with her.

The Buck Stops Here

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film First AD Speaks Out; Police Probe Continues – Deadline

 

[Gardenista]

'Rust' AD David Halls breaks silence on Alec Baldwin shooting

Still, an insider told The Post that two staffers on set told investigators they never saw Halls remove the gun from the armorer’s cart during an investigation into the incident.

The witnesses also denied that Halls had called the gun “cold” before giving it to Baldwin, according to the source.

 

[Luna20]

But it still could be close to 100% on her if she had told the AD flat out that it was a cold gun.

The AD had a reason to think it was cold....Hummm...

Now why did he think that?

When giving it to the AD I would think she would have to identify what the gun is or isn’t as she hands it to him or anyone?

The chain of custody originates with HGR. I can only think of 2 ways she can get around it:

1. It was cold when she gave it to AD therefore he tampered with it before giving it to AB.

2. The ammo was manufactured incorrectly. It had the full appearance of not looking live so she had no way of deciphering the difference.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yup. Why bother being shown when it's quicker to just have someone hand you the gun telling you it's cold?

Let someone else worry about the gun's fitness, the actor is more concerned with how he looks drawing the gun.

In fairness, the actor’s job is to be concerned with how he looks and plays the part, rather than the fitness of the props. Had he been a driver of a car and the brakes failed, he wouldn’t be expected to have inspected the car prior to driving. That’s why expert staff is on hand, and in the case of real firearms being used as props, the need for that staff to be present and engaged is crucial.

The Rust situation is complex, since AB had a dual role as lead actor and also being with one of the production companies. He was also not a newbie to movie sets, nor guns on sets. He was the star of this show. So we are looking at him with a more critical eye than we might the average actor.

jmo

 

[Luna20]

Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film First AD Speaks Out; Police Probe Continues – Deadline

He is incriminating himself in this statement BBM:

“During an interview with David Halls, when Affiant asked David about the safety protocol on set in regards to firearms, he advised, ‘I check the barrel for obstructions, most of the time there’s no live fire, she [Hannah] opens the hatch and spins the drum, and I say “cold gun on set” said an affidavit submitted by the Sheriff’s Office for an October 27 search warrant. “David advised when Hannah showed him the firearm before continuing rehearsal, he could only remember seeing three rounds,” the filing went on to say of the sequence of events leading up to Baldwin being handed the “cold gun” on the already troubled set.

 

[steeltowngirl]

'Rust' AD David Halls breaks silence on Alec Baldwin shooting

Still, an insider told The Post that two staffers on set told investigators they never saw Halls remove the gun from the armorer’s cart during an investigation into the incident.

The witnesses also denied that Halls had called the gun “cold” before giving it to Baldwin, according to the source.

Well, that is interesting. If Halls didn’t remove the gun from the armorer’s cart, how did it get into AB’s hand? Halls admits he had the gun in his hands. Did he lay it back down, then AB picked it up? We know the armorer was not inside the church set - and that, in and of itself, was an epic fail by HGR.