Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Gardenista]

I wonder if there is any way this could be a manufacturing/packaging error.

 

[katydid23]

Like most accidents or horrible occurrences like this one, It is a train of mistakes or missed opportunities that could have stopped the fatal action anywhere along the line. We know the ending of the train, LE will find the beginning of it. New laws won't help. They didn't follow simple rules this time and it cost a life.

Yes, and it bothers me hearing AB proclaim the need for 'better laws and regulations' when he wasn't following the ones they already have.

Apparently no one was. Regulations are meaningless if no one adheres to them.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if there is any way this could be a manufacturing/packaging error.

Even if it was, the Amorer and the AD were supposed to check each bullet and not just put it in because it came out of the correct package. Each one is supposed to be looked at individually.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I've seen two variations of Dummy rounds. One has a hole drilled in it and another has the dimpled primer. And (imo) the end result is they have no more danger than a cotton ball being put in the gun.

As long as you can see that they have either no primer or a dimpled or punched primer they are equally safe.

A dummy round with a live primer and a hole drilled in the side of it can still be dangerous. JMO.

 

[Gardenista]

Even if it was, the Amorer and the AD were supposed to check each bullet and not just put it in because it came out of the correct package. Each one is supposed to be looked at individually.

I agree, but what if the dummy was the type with the indented primer and it didn't indent correctly in manufacturing. Do dummies have gunpowder in them?

 

[Warwick1991]

I’ve never seen these inert cartridges with a hole drilled in the side in a gun store, shooting sports catalog, or training instructor manual. The only market I can imagine for these inert rounds would be re-enactors, collectors, or for acting. I suppose they could have some use in training, perhaps to show what various cartridges look like.

The inert cartridges in @branmuffin’s link have a hole where the primer would be, so they are distinguishable when loaded into a revolver cylinder.

Having followed this thread, I can see that the movie industry probably uses these to duplicate the appearance of live ammunition in films.

In any case, I await the answer to why live ammunition, mixed with other types, was on a movie set and loaded into the actor’s gun, which was a operable gun.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I wonder if there is any way this could be a manufacturing/packaging error.

You mean a live round possibly came to the set in a box of dummy rounds? I guess that could happen.

But that's why the armorer is supposed to check each round while loading the firearm. A live round has a live intact primer. A dummy round will never have a live primer. JMO.

 

[katydid23]

"We were a very, very well-oiled crew shooting a film together and then this horrible event happened.”

Is this ^^^an attempt by AB to spin the situation and make it appear like everything was great on the set and then inexplicably something happened out of the blue?

a very, very well-oiled crew? <<<< that seems a bit over the top.
'

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I agree, but what if the dummy was the type with the indented primer and it didn't indent correctly in manufacturing. Do dummies have gunpowder in them?

The way I understand it dummy rounds are made using live rounds where the bullet is removed from the case, the gunpowder is the dumped out, then the primer is punched which causes it to fire. You then put the BB's in the case for later safety checks and press the bullet back on.

Since the primer has been fired you have a safe dummy round that can be checked by looking at the rear of the guns cylinder while loaded. JMO.

 

[everybodhi]

I wonder if there is any way this could be a manufacturing/packaging error.

If it is, that's terrifying, and a recall needs to be done immediately.
I suspect it's more likely the set was disorganized and sloppy, judging by ammo left out on the cart during lunch, along with all the other lax safety measures it was an accident waiting to happen.
But if one were a psychopath, there was lots of opportunity there.
All jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, and it bothers me hearing AB proclaim the need for 'better laws and regulations' when he wasn't following the ones they already have.

Apparently no one was. Regulations are meaningless if no one adheres to them.

You are exactly right. New laws are not the answer. In fact banning the use of real guns in the US film industry will just drive productions and the jobs they bring to other countries like Canada which already has a large film industry including firearm suppliers.

Movie Armaments Group (MAG) was founded over 30 years ago and is the first and largest company incorporated in Canada to supply guns and military equipment to the film industry.

We offer the best and most modern tactical weapons and gear with thousands of blank firing and replica firearms from cowboy guns to the latest sci-fi.

Movie Armaments Group Canada - Tactical Weapons and Gear for the Film Industry - About Us

 

[katydid23]

From your link:

“Alec was pretty concerned about safety on set,” said another camera technician.

“He wanted to know where I would be standing when he drew his gun,” this person said. “I told him I was going to be standing in a different place, and he said, ‘Good.’”

That's interesting that he was concerned about where the camera tech would be standing. And kind of sad, because the 2 who were shot were standing just two feet away from the muzzle of the gun, when he pulled the trigger. I had no idea they were that close.

The day Alec Baldwin shot Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza

During the scene, Baldwin’s character was supposed to fast-draw his weapon and shoot at a rival. Halls had not pulled the gun’s trigger during the run-throughs he performed.

But when Baldwin entered the church to do a quick rehearsal, he apparently did. [pull the trigger]

The bullet barely missed Russell before hitting the DP and the director. The trio was about two feet from the muzzle of the weapon.

 

[katydid23]

Also from the article:

Baldwin had taken pains to make his gun work look realistic. A few days earlier, he’d gone into the church to walk through what it would be like to use the weapon in the scene. The live rounds he fired contained blanks, but still made enough noise that crew members were startled.

“Alec was pretty concerned about safety on set,” said another camera technician.

“He wanted to know where I would be standing when he drew his gun,” this person said. “I told him I was going to be standing in a different place, and he said, ‘Good.’”

And yet, the 2 people he shot were standing just 2 feet away from the muzzle of the gun when it fired. So he wasn't really all that concerned with gun safety when it comes down to it. JMO

 

[katydid23]

She did not pass it to Hall. She put it on the prop table, and there were three weapons from which Hall could choose - he chose a hot one and called it a cold one.

Armourer was not, to anyone's knowledge, there in the church nor did she "pass" a particular gun to anyone.

And that is totally against safety regulations. The actor is not supposed to accept the gun from anyone but the armourer and she should not have left before that was done.

And Hall was supposed to double check her work himself, right before she handed it to the actor. That will be a major error that may bite him in the end of this messy legal process.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I wonder if people in the film industry have become so desensitized to the possibility of live ammunition being on set because it "never" happens that they have let firearm safety practices wane when budgets and schedules are tight.

We sure haven't seen any indication that the production of "Rust" made firearm safety a priority. Have there been other sets that have been as lacking? Maybe it was just a matter of time before a tragedy like this took place. JMO.

 

[katydid23]

But wouldn't you watch anyway? I would. And I really, really think they can dub gunfire in without using blanks.

That would affect the acting negatively too, imo. Actors react to the environment in a scene. They react physically to the sound of the gunfire in a scene. It would fall flat if it was silent. JMO

If people followed the regulations in place there'd be no problem. There is no need for new regulations. They just need to follow the ones already in place. JMO

 

[jjenny]

I don't understand this.

The latest info is that after Halls got the gun from HGR, he "stood in" for Alec Baldwin and rehearsed the scene before Alec showed up.

 

[jjenny]

And that is totally against safety regulations. The actor is not supposed to accept the gun from anyone but the armourer and she should not have left before that was done.

And Hall was supposed to double check her work himself, right before handing it to the actor. That will be a major error that may bite him in the end of this messy legal process.

Halls got the gun from HRG, stood in for Alec during rehearsing before Alec showed up, then gave the gun to him. That's a new detail (that Halls stood up for Alec in rehearsing) that just got published.

 

[branmuffin]

I was reviewing a few websites that provide "prop guns" for various purposes. Even those companies state unequivocally, that a prop gun should never be pointed at anyone.

Old West Blank Guns | Colt 1873 Replica Guns | Western Stage Props

And this gun, was NOT a "PROP GUN". I think that is an important distinction. Why was this gun even allowed on the set?

Many of the news articles are misleading, as is the title of this thread. This was a real gun. An antique. A .45 Colt Revolver.

Gun not thoroughly checked before Alec Baldwin fired fatal shot

Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report

Your first link is interesting because the Colt 1873 illustrated is a Pietta replica gun that fires blanks. In the description of the piece the seller states it is identical to the live fire Colt 1873 replica. The gun that killed Halyna wasn't an antique Colt it was the F LLI Pietta 1873 Colt.

 

[katydid23]

Which means an actor, usually the highest person paid on the set, has the responsibility to make sure that protocol is followed. He/she can stop all work. Simply by saying, "No, the weapon should only be presented to me by the armorer. When that person is available, let me know...going to my trailer. Thank you.".

And no one would have been killed. If the actor had demanded that the safety protocols were followed.

Thank You. That is exactly right. JMO