Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Satchie]

I read


I just read this again. What does this mean, a lead slug?

“But police said last week that they’d recovered real bullets from the set and that a lead slug had been pulled out of director Joel Souza’s shoulder”

That means the part of a bullet that exits a gun.

I think they are just being strictly factual and not wanting to leap to any conclusions until the experts sign off on the findings. So, for example, maybe it came from another gun that was fired simultaneously as the one that killed HH, or whatever. They just try to keep a completely open mind when gathering facts.

 

[katydid23]

My understanding was that when Hall gave the gun back to HGR and told her to open it, they saw 4 dummy rounds and 1 casing with no bullet. So if that latest statement is true then they should have found 5 dummy rounds, and the one empty casing.

Editing this comment. Here is what was said:



Dave Halls, the assistant director, said he did not thoroughly check the gun he handed to Alec Baldwin, according to an affidavit.


So it was "at least" four rounds, which could actually mean five.

And her attorney just said she loaded SIX dummies into that weapon right before it was used that day. Does that mean a bullet is missing?

 

[Dotta]

Lawyers for 'Rust' armorer suspect angry crew member placed live round inside box of prop ammo | Daily Mail Online

 

[Luna20]

Mike F:
"Apparently dummy rounds were what she was suppose to have loaded and that she did load 4. The question is then why was the 5th one a live round in the weapon and did she in fact put it in there?"

I agree with the above. Which is why it was weird to read this from her attorney today:

He reiterated the point later on when pressed about whether Gutierrez “re-checked” the gun.

“She did spin the cylinder; she showed Mr. Halls each of the rounds,” Bowles said. “There were six dummy rounds that she had loaded into that firearm that she believed had been dummy rounds. She did spin it; she did check it.”

Halls eventually gave the gun to Baldwin.

'Rust' Armorer's Lawyers Say 'Disgruntled' Person May Have Tried to 'Sabotage' Alec Baldwin Film

So HG is admitting she put SIX dummy rounds in that weapon. Halls said there were FIVE found in the gun when they checked it after the shooting.

So does that mean she just admitted to loading the gun with the live bullets?

Sounds like it.

Also from your link her attorneys say she would reacquaint Baldwin and trained him one on one, etc. This is the first time I’ve heard that.

“Echoing comments made on the Today show, Bowles said Gutierrez was usually “called back” every time there was a “scene” or a “shot” to reacquaint Baldwin with the gun and its safety features. She was not for this particular incident. The attorney said Gutierrez was “extremely safety conscious,” had trained Baldwin one-on-one with the gun selected for the movie, and told him he should never “point it at a human being.”

 

[Gardenista]

Agree on the latter ‘gun industry’. Not sure I’m following the former. Are you saying that she personally would sue the manufacturer in order to further her innocence?

More like reduce here culpability, but I have zero idea if it would or could be done. Or maybe she wouldn't do it, but the high powered attorneys for the production team would do it? I haven't thought it all the way through and IANAL but I'm trying to think about how they can spin this to make themselves look better and not come out poorer.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Following along with the latest attorney & AB statements in MSM… Mostly it just reminds me of the old Family Circus comic strips, Not Me episodes. Surprised HG’s attorney would go down the sabotage path so early on- charges have not even been filed. Seems like the type of thing to pull out of the hat in the 9th inning of trial, when your client finally steps up to bat. Kind of like the masked, sweatered, ninja banditos of the CBR trial last summer.

I really can’t see sabotage by a crew member- too risky/dangerous. They are too invested in their careers, imo. I can see rebellion & plinking beween 11 & 1 lunch break, though. People would have heard that, so if it happened, it’ll come out. Maybe plinking occurred late the night before? After most everyone left?

I’m sure LE is fingerprinting everything, so they’ll know who touched those boxes & bullets. Gonna be interesting to see the statements that come out once LE has their ducks in a row.

 

[10ofRods]

If in fact someone put a live round in a box of blanks or dummies, then the armorer was indeed incompetent not to recognize the difference and check. Since there are multiple accounts of the crew "plinking," it's unlikely that the armorer didn't know that. People don't plink with blanks.

Very surprising that the armorer somehow chose this one live round (I believe more will be found and in fact believe the Sheriff mentioned that they found live ammo on the set - I'll have to check again). She chose one live round and put it in the cylinder and spun the cylinder so that round was the one that would be shot during this supposed rehearsal (where...gun could have been totally unloaded or should have been using dummies). Why they would need dummies for rehearsal mystifies me still.

First, we heard there were only 3 rounds total in the gun. Today, on two different news stations, it's been reporting that there were 5 rounds in the gun, and one reporter said 6. Now, Hall (the AD) is saying that he did check the gun with HGR and that there were 5. I think he says he should have checked more closely (he obviously assumed they were...what? blanks or dummies? why won't anyone say?...they're talking so much, might as well give the details).

Blanks kill people too. And the chances are greater than one in a trillion (as people keep saying - I suppose they're saying that out of all prop gun shots ever fired - and apparently there's this ginormous amount - in the trillions - of blank rounds shot...only a handful of people have been killed. There at least two before this shooting - so that makes 3.

I'd calculate it a bit different. How many people are on the planet? About 8 billion. How many have died from prop gun injuries since, say, 1980? 3 that I know of. So it's more like a 1 in 2-3 billion chance (rare...but...certainly not 1 in a trillion...IMO)

Anyway, it's so odd that if there was just this one live round on set...it ended up being the one behind the hammer during this rehearsal.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

My understanding was that when Hall gave the gun back to HGR and told her to open it, they saw 4 dummy rounds and 1 casing with no bullet. So if that latest statement is true then they should have found 5 dummy rounds, and the one empty casing.

Editing this comment. Here is what was said:



Dave Halls, the assistant director, said he did not thoroughly check the gun he handed to Alec Baldwin, according to an affidavit.

So it was "at least" four rounds, which could actually mean five.

Halls said one of the rounds didn't have a hole in it or the "cap". What is the "cap"?

 

[10ofRods]

Following along with the latest attorney & AB statements in MSM… Mostly it just reminds me of the old Family Circus comic strips, Not Me episodes. Surprised HG’s attorney would go down the sabotage path so early on- charges have not even been filed. Seems like the type of thing to pull out of the hat in the 9th inning of trial, when your client finally steps up to bat. Kind of like the masked, sweatered, ninja banditos of the CBR trial last summer.

I really can’t see sabotage by a crew member- too risky/dangerous. They are too invested in their careers, imo. I can see rebellion & plinking beween 11 & 1 lunch break, though. People would have heard that, so if it happened, it’ll come out. Maybe plinking occurred late the night before? After most everyone left?

I’m sure LE is fingerprinting everything, so they’ll know who touched those boxes & bullets. Gonna be interesting to see the statements that come out once LE has their ducks in a row.

Yeah, I'm sitting here on pins and needles waiting for the FBI to DNA test and fingerprint test the gun, and especially...the ammo. They will also be able to figure out who manufactured the live rounds and, most likely, where they were sold (and possibly...to whom - I will be surprised if they can't do this).

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

However, they would not be charged with actually assassinating the president. The person(s) who assassinated the president would be at fault. I think it is fairly unlikely that anyone who pointed a gun and pulled the trigger at Biden tomorrow, even if they believed the gun to not have live rounds in it, they would face charges. I highly doubt they would be grabbing coffee in Vermont.

I can agree she LIKELY didn't do her job well and that is a huge fail when firearms are involved, especially when someone is shot. I also agree that she also would be dealing with a much different situation if it were the president, but I don't think she would be facing the same things the person who pulled the trigger is facing.

Wouldn't there be room for charging both the assassin and the sleeping Secret Service Agents? Gross negligence, manslaughter?

I don't know the answer, I'm curious what others will say.

 

[mickey2942]

I agree HGR's attorney would be better to say absolutely nothing except that that HGR has no comments at this time, aside from condolences to Hutchins family.

The more that is released, the worse it looks for HGR.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Alec Baldwin 'Rust' shooting warrants suggest violations of industry firearms standards, documents show

In all caps with bold, underlined letters, the first line reads, "BLANKS CAN KILL. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS THOUGH THEY ARE LOADED. ‘LIVE AMMUNITION’ IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO LOT OR STAGE."

Furthermore, guns should never be pointed at anyone "unless absolutely necessary to do so on camera," according to the CSATF guidance.

"Refrain from pointing a firearm at anyone, including yourself," the protocols read, and "NEVER place your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to shoot."
​

This makes sense, and it’s what many here have said from the beginning.

 

[STLSuperstar]

Long-time lurker here. I just made an account to say that I truly believe that HGR knew there was live ammo on set and knew there was plinking (probably engaged in it herself). This explanation has come out from those on set and those with inside connections since day 1. It is consistent with the evidence, and it is the simplest explanation.

I am infuriated by her statements deflecting blame. If she gets off by casting blame to the producers and claiming sabotage, I’m going to be so livid.

Yes, the producers made bad decisions. Yes, DH made bad decisions. But if HGR indeed brought live ammo on set and let people plink, she needs to be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. That is not an “inexperienced” newbie oppsie, that is criminal.

End rant.

 

[JudgeJoe]

If in fact someone put a live round in a box of blanks or dummies, then the armorer was indeed incompetent not to recognize the difference and check. Since there are multiple accounts of the crew "plinking," it's unlikely that the armorer didn't know that. People don't plink with blanks.

Very surprising that the armorer somehow chose this one live round (I believe more will be found and in fact believe the Sheriff mentioned that they found live ammo on the set - I'll have to check again). She chose one live round and put it in the cylinder and spun the cylinder so that round was the one that would be shot during this supposed rehearsal (where...gun could have been totally unloaded or should have been using dummies). Why they would need dummies for rehearsal mystifies me still.

First, we heard there were only 3 rounds total in the gun. Today, on two different news stations, it's been reporting that there were 5 rounds in the gun, and one reporter said 6. Now, Hall (the AD) is saying that he did check the gun with HGR and that there were 5. I think he says he should have checked more closely (he obviously assumed they were...what? blanks or dummies? why won't anyone say?...they're talking so much, might as well give the details).

Blanks kill people too. And the chances are greater than one in a trillion (as people keep saying - I suppose they're saying that out of all prop gun shots ever fired - and apparently there's this ginormous amount - in the trillions - of blank rounds shot...only a handful of people have been killed. There at least two before this shooting - so that makes 3.

I'd calculate it a bit different. How many people are on the planet? About 8 billion. How many have died from prop gun injuries since, say, 1980? 3 that I know of. So it's more like a 1 in 2-3 billion chance (rare...but...certainly not 1 in a trillion...IMO)

Anyway, it's so odd that if there was just this one live round on set...it ended up being the one behind the hammer during this rehearsal.

Ita- the discrepancies between how many bullets were loaded in that dad-gummed gun is stunning. 3? 5? 6? What the heck was it & why the confusion?! So far the most absolute statement seems to have come from HG’s attorney- she loaded 6! I hope he’s not been taking lessons from the Laundrie attorney & later claims he was speaking without his notes in front of him.

 

[katydid23]

My understanding was that when Hall gave the gun back to HGR and told her to open it, they saw 4 dummy rounds and 1 casing with no bullet. So if that latest statement is true then they should have found 5 dummy rounds, and the one empty casing.

Editing this comment. Here is what was said:



Dave Halls, the assistant director, said he did not thoroughly check the gun he handed to Alec Baldwin, according to an affidavit.


So it was "at least" four rounds, which could actually mean five.

And her attorney just said she loaded SIX dummies into that weapon right before it was used that day. Does that mean a bullet is missing?

Sounds like it.

Also from your link her attorneys say she would reacquaint Baldwin and trained him one on one, etc. This is the first time I’ve heard that.

“Echoing comments made on the Today show, Bowles said Gutierrez was usually “called back” every time there was a “scene” or a “shot” to reacquaint Baldwin with the gun and its safety features. She was not for this particular incident. The attorney said Gutierrez was “extremely safety conscious,” had trained Baldwin one-on-one with the gun selected for the movie, and told him he should never “point it at a human being.”

Baldwin even admits as much about the safety meetings in his instagram screed posted upthread. He says they were regular safety meeting , sometimes more than once a day.

On his IG, he says what he learned from this tragedy is that he should learn more about gun safety protocol and will call out unsafe practices in the future, blah blah blah.

I take issue with this because I went to AB's IMDB page. He has been in 152 productions/film and TV.

He has starred in films like Mission Impossible 2, and shows like Law and Order, and others where he has played a CIA officer, a Marshal, a detective many times. So he is not new and inexperienced around firearm safety protocols onset. He tries to make it seem like Rust was his first time around firearms on a film set. And it is not true. I am sure Mission Impossible and Law and Order had plenty of scenes with firearms and he was well instructed in the protocol.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Halls said one of the rounds didn't have a hole in it or the "cap". What is the "cap"?

I took it to mean it was just a spent casing and the projectile (bullet) was gone?

 

[Simply Southern]

Wouldn't there be room for charging both the assassin and the sleeping Secret Service Agents? Gross negligence, manslaughter?

I don't know the answer, I'm curious what others will say.

I don't think the SS was charged when President Reagan or Kennedy was shot.
Congressional hearing, investigations, conspiracies, lots of accusations, don't remember if anyone was charged.
Moo

 

[Luna20]

And her attorney just said she loaded SIX dummies into that weapon right before it was used that day. Does that mean a bullet is missing?


Baldwin even admits as much about the safety meetings in his instagram screed posted upthread. He says they were regular safety meeting , sometimes more than once a day.

On his IG, he says what he learned from this tragedy is that he should learn more about gun safety protocol and will call out unsafe practices in the future, blah blah blah.

I take issue with this because I went to AB's IMDB page. He has been in 152 productions/film and TV.

He has starred in films like Mission Impossible 2, and shows like Law and Order, and others where he has played a CIA officer, a Marshal, a detective many times. So he is not new and inexperienced around firearm safety protocols onset. He tries to make it seem like Rust was his first time around firearms on a film set. And it is not true. I am sure Mission Impossible and Law and Order had plenty of scenes with firearms and he was well instructed in the protocol.

Thanks I didn’t know there were one on ones with AB.

 

[Dotta]

I stopped reading this thread a few days ago so I dont know the latest updates.
But I have just read DM (the link which I sent here a few mins ago) and my blood boiled!
I mean the statement of armourer's lawyers.
Are they for real?
Have they no shame?
I understand their task is to defend their client but to accuse the crew who left a day earlier of putting a real bullet into the Colt is unbelievable!
They left b/c of horrific conditions on this set!
If I were one of them I would think of suing for these horrible accusations!
The lady didnt do her job - and that is the truth!

 

[Deleted member 254730]

Yes, but IMO if they can somehow make that argument they will because an ammo manufacturer has WAY deeper pockets than anyone else involved. Doesn't get their clients completely off the hook, but it's better than nothing. They will also then get to point the finger at the gun industry.

Not saying it will happen, just something I've been mulling over.

The likes of Browning won't be in the business of making inert ammunition for the theatrical business. There is zero possibility that a bullet from a production line would get mixed up in a box.

There are two types of inert ammunition. There is safety trainer ammunition, which deliberately will not look like the real thing, usually with a brightly coloured plastic "bullet". THey are just used for training, they don't have tom look realistic. The trainer won't want them to look realistic, as there is a higher chance they will be mixed with live rounds.

Then there is theatrical inert ammunition. This has to look like the real thing, because its used for close up scenes. The companies who produce this seem to be tiny little outfits, producing "ammunition" to order. I guess is they are either using old brass collected from ranges tc, and just assembling a bullet, with nothing inside, or deactivating live ammunition (old or maybe new), by drilling a hole in the cartridge. I suspect if you picked up a box of theatrical rounds, even if all the same calibre, the markings on the brass will be from a bazillion different makers. Probably, because its all about looks, the supplier might even get the brass to really pop. But they seem to get thrown into what bullet box is lying around.