Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[Luna20]

Long-time lurker here. I just made an account to say that I truly believe that HGR knew there was live ammo on set and knew there was plinking (probably engaged in it herself). This explanation has come out from those on set and those with inside connections since day 1. It is consistent with the evidence, and it is the simplest explanation.

I am infuriated by her statements deflecting blame. If she gets off by casting blame to the producers and claiming sabotage, I’m going to be so livid.

Yes, the producers made bad decisions. Yes, DH made bad decisions. But if HGR indeed brought live ammo on set and let people plink, she needs to be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. That is not an “inexperienced” newbie oppsie, that is criminal.

End rant.

Im with you on deflecting the blame on sabotage. To me that is a stretch because what else can she say as the hired armorer-nothing, so she has to go to the extreme end in an attempt to prove her innocence. I don’t buy it at all.

 

[JudgeJoe]

And her attorney just said she loaded SIX dummies into that weapon right before it was used that day. Does that mean a bullet is missing?


Baldwin even admits as much about the safety meetings in his instagram screed posted upthread. He says they were regular safety meeting , sometimes more than once a day.

On his IG, he says what he learned from this tragedy is that he should learn more about gun safety protocol and will call out unsafe practices in the future, blah blah blah.

I take issue with this because I went to AB's IMDB page. He has been in 152 productions/film and TV.

He has starred in films like Mission Impossible 2, and shows like Law and Order, and others where he has played a CIA officer, a Marshal, a detective many times. So he is not new and inexperienced around firearm safety protocols onset. He tries to make it seem like Rust was his first time around firearms on a film set. And it is not true. I am sure Mission Impossible and Law and Order had plenty of scenes with firearms and he was well instructed in the protocol.

ITA! The ship has sailed long ago for this producer to claim “inexperience” with firearms on set. This will absolutely be part of prosecution’s argument in civil or criminal trial, imo. If y’all send me title, firearm used & year of release, I’ll make a list…

FILMS IN WHICH ALEC BALDWIN HANDLED FIREARMS:

Rust, 2021
The Edge, rifle, 1997
Mission Impossible 2
Mission Impossible Fallout, 2018
Mission Impossible Rogue Nation, 2015
The Good Shepard, 2006
The Departed, 2006
The Last Shot, 2004
Law and Order

Subject to additions/corrections…

There’s also films in which firearms were on set, but not handled by AB. Still, whole-cast safety meetings would have occurred.

 

[Luna20]

I stopped reading this thread a few days ago so I dont know the latest updates.
But I have just read DM (the link which I sent here a few mins ago) and my blood boiled!
I mean the statement of armourer's lawyers.
Are they for real?
Have they no shame?
I understand their task is to defend their client but to accuse the crew who left a day earlier of putting a real bullet into the Colt is unbelievable!
They left b/c of horrific conditions on this set!
If I were one of them I would think of suing for these horrible accusations!
The lady didnt do her job - and that is the truth!

Ive had the same reaction. I think it’s so extreme because they know it’s so obvious that she screwed up and there is no one else to blame for loading the gun.

 

[Arkay]

Wouldn't there be room for charging both the assassin and the sleeping Secret Service Agents? Gross negligence, manslaughter?

I don't know the answer, I'm curious what others will say.

I don't think the SS was charged when President Reagan or Kennedy was shot.
Congressional hearing, investigations, conspiracies, lots of accusations, don't remember if anyone was charged.
Moo

They weren’t charged because they weren’t negligent in their duties. They were there, they had done all they knew to protect the presidents; an SS officer was even shot trying to protect Reagan. If JFK had submitted to the SS request that he leave the bubble top on the car, he would’ve survived.

In my examples earlier in which I brought up the Secret Service, I had compared them with HGR saying if they weren’t around. HGR’s lawyers’ defense is that she wasn’t around for two hours, so it’s not her fault.

That is where my issue lies with this defense of HGR. They are defending her by saying she left the ammo unattended for two hours and so someone else stuck a live round in. HER JOB WAS TO KEEP CUSTODY OVER ALL WEAPONRY. She’s the ARMORER.

She was hired to do this exact thing, and her lawyers’ best defense of her actually highlights her negligence, IMO.

Nobody is claiming that she shot Halyna. So she isn’t comparable to the “assassin.” But she certainly seems to have ignored her whole reason for being there, which was to ensure a safe chain of custody. And we know for certain that she didn’t, because Alec shot Halyna to death.

IANAL and don’t know what criminal charges might land on her. My mind is thinking reckless endangerment, criminal negligence and maybe somewhere involuntary manslaughter??? But I don’t know. Maybe involuntary manslaughter for Alec?
All JMO

As a P.S., Lincoln’s bodyguard was supposed to be sitting in a chair outside the theatre box, but he left to go to the bar next door. In today’s world I believe he would’ve had criminal charges against him. That was true dereliction of duty, very dissimilar to JFK and Reagan. IMO

 

[Gardenista]

Last week someone posted a link here that showed all of the shows with guns AB did, the year and the exact weapon. I can't find it now though. I think it was on an anti-gun website.

 

[Luna20]

A bullet (slug) made of lead.

That means the part of a bullet that exits a gun.

I think they are just being strictly factual and not wanting to leap to any conclusions until the experts sign off on the findings. So, for example, maybe it came from another gun that was fired simultaneously as the one that killed HH, or whatever. They just try to keep a completely open mind when gathering facts.

Thank you @Mo Thuairim and @Satchie

 

[MsMarple]

(CNN)The "Rust" armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, loaded the gun with what she thought were dummy rounds before Alec Baldwin used it on set, fatally shooting the movie's cinematographer, lawyers for the armorer said in an interview with NBC that aired Wednesday.

"There was a box of dummy rounds and the box is labeled dummy. Hannah did take from that box which she by all accounts should have been able to rely on, that contains only dummy rounds," said Gutierrez Reed's lawyer Jason Bowles. "She loaded rounds from that box into the handgun only to later find out -- and she had no idea -- she inspected the rounds, that there was a live round. Now we don't know, however, whether that live round came from that box. We're assuming it did. We're assuming somebody put the live round in that box, which if you think about that, the person who put the live round in the box of dummy rounds had to have the purpose of sabotaging this set. There's no other reason you would do that."

'Rust' armorer thought she loaded the gun with dummy rounds, lawyer says - CNN

Well, mystery solved: HGR should have been able to rely on the box of dummy rounds to assure her there were no live rounds sneaked in. Without having to check.

Yes I'm being sarcastic... she was hired as an armorer, not costume designer or hair stylist. Her specific job was to oversee the weapons and ammo. That includes knowing what the heck she loaded into the gun. Plus, she knew that particular gun was able to shoot live bullets so wouldn't that demand a need to be extra careful?

It sucks that lawyers are attempting to pass the buck around even though I understand it's their job. A woman died and everyone is scrambling to mitigate their own negligence.

I'm still waiting for a detailed description of the armorer's duties in terms of keeping logs, inventories, etc.. Were there forms to be filled? Did she have to submit purchase orders, invoices and receipts to the film's accountants? If she knew the exact tally of various dummies and blanks then would she have noticed the count was off? I dunno. All MOO.

Edited to correct initials.

 

[10ofRods]

Mike F:
"Apparently dummy rounds were what she was suppose to have loaded and that she did load 4. The question is then why was the 5th one a live round in the weapon and did she in fact put it in there?"

I agree with the above. Which is why it was weird to read this from her attorney today:

He reiterated the point later on when pressed about whether Gutierrez “re-checked” the gun.

“She did spin the cylinder; she showed Mr. Halls each of the rounds,” Bowles said. “There were six dummy rounds that she had loaded into that firearm that she believed had been dummy rounds. She did spin it; she did check it.”

Halls eventually gave the gun to Baldwin.

'Rust' Armorer's Lawyers Say 'Disgruntled' Person May Have Tried to 'Sabotage' Alec Baldwin Film

So HG is admitting she put SIX dummy rounds in that weapon. Halls said there were FIVE found in the gun when they checked it after the shooting.

So does that mean she just admitted to loading the gun with the live bullets?

See? We are all confused - and there's obviously confusion on the set. Dummy rounds are appropriate (blanks were not, not at such close range).

Why leave an empty chamber? (Sometimes a person with a revolver does that so that if the gun shooter is inexperienced and has their finger on the trigger when they ought not to - and no one should have their finger on the trigger of a gun during dry runs/technical rehearsal), at least if the nervous or over-acting actor gets too into and pulls the trigger (and they do that - it does happen), nothing fires and everyone stares at the actor in disgust.

At least that's what I have seen (it's been a long time since I've seen a Western production filming, there used to be lots here in my part of SoCal...Joel McCrea was a friend of my dad's and my dad was a "consultant" on certain things related to guns and horse handling; McCrea had a movie set ranch, he didn't star in tons of Westerns, but lots were filmed on his property.

HG seems to have admitted she put 6 bullet thingies in the gun, thinking they were all dummies - perhaps all from a dummy box? But one was live. How would anyone know that she would select that bullet (which should have been way obvious to anyone who knows bullets) and that it would fire first? Gun should have been checked each time it fired, because dummies can stick in the barrel and that means any blanks to be used later might actually force that dummy casing out as a projectile...

 

[MikeF]

And her attorney just said she loaded SIX dummies into that weapon right before it was used that day. Does that mean a bullet is missing?

Something I had read or heard somewhere talked about how loading one of those weapons it was (or is?) common to leave one slot open where the hammer wouldn't be resting on live ammo. Now I assumed that was in a typical when using the gun loaded with live ammo, and not dummy rounds. So as silly as it seems (because it was only suppose to be dummy rounds) maybe she did only load 5 total rounds trying to use that practice?

 

[Luna20]

More like reduce here culpability, but I have zero idea if it would or could be done. Or maybe she wouldn't do it, but the high powered attorneys for the production team would do it? I haven't thought it all the way through and IANAL but I'm trying to think about how they can spin this to make themselves look better and not come out poorer.

I can see the high powered attorneys trying it. It would be interesting to compare similar ‘in theory’ cases.

 

[MikeF]

Halls said one of the rounds didn't have a hole in it or the "cap". What is the "cap"?

The actual slug (tip) that is fired from the casing.

 

[GatorFL]

I agree HGR's attorney would be better to say absolutely nothing except that that HGR has no comments at this time, aside from condolences to Hutchins family.

The more that is released, the worse it looks for HGR.

I think they are painting a picture that there was intentional sabotage after she checked the gun with the AD.

To me, it looks bad for her but much worse for the AD who declared the gun cold and for the man who did not check the gun before he pulled the trigger, Alec Baldwin.

 

[happyday]

I guess I’m not surprised that her lawyers are claiming possible sabotage. Some of my family members were in Santa Fe a few days after the shooting, and all the buzz in town was that some one sabotaged the gun. Everyone was talking about it and the general feeling was that it was purposely done. People claimed to have insider knowledge, know a crew member, yada yada yada.

I actually wouldn’t be shocked if that does end up being the case, but it still doesn’t exonerate HGR for not doing her job. She should have found a live round if one had been put into the box of dummies. I think her lawyers know there’s no getting around that, so they’re putting it all out there. I guess they’re hoping that her incompetence won’t look as bad as the malice someone had to have put a real bullet(s) in the box?

But if there was indeed drunken plinking going on on set (we have yet to have this confirmed), then there’s also a good possibility that’s what happened instead. A live round was left in the gun or put in the box of dummies mistakenly.

Either way she didn’t catch it. It’s obvious to me her attorneys know this.

 

[katydid23]

Something I had read or heard somewhere talked about how loading one of those weapons it was (or is?) common to leave one slot open where the hammer wouldn't be resting on live ammo. Now I assumed that was in a typical when using the gun loaded with live ammo, and not dummy rounds. So as silly as it seems (because it was only suppose to be dummy rounds) maybe she did only load 5 total rounds trying to use that practice?

Okay but her attorney just said that she loaded 6 dummies into the gun.


He reiterated the point later on when pressed about whether Gutierrez “re-checked” the gun.

“She did spin the cylinder; she showed Mr. Halls each of the rounds,” Bowles said. “There were six dummy rounds that she had loaded into that firearm that she believed had been dummy rounds. She did spin it; she did check it.”

Halls eventually gave the gun to Baldwin.

'Rust' Armorer's Lawyers Say 'Disgruntled' Person May Have Tried to 'Sabotage' Alec Baldwin Film

 

[jjenny]

Ammo should have been locked up, and guns as well, when not in use. Ammo shouldn't have just been assumed to be dummies because that's what was written on the box. Each dummy should have been checked for hole on the side to verify it's a dummy before being loaded into the gun.

 

[al66pine]

No Fake Guns?

....the old style ambience of a western set,... especially western guns are what they're looking for...Everyone is using real guns, no one is making fake guns that look real.... JMO

@Satchie sbm Addressing only the point about no realistic-looking fake guns being made. Disagreeing to an extent. Some realistic-looking fake guns are being manu'ed, some as toys, others as replicas, for TV, movies, battle reenactment groups.*

Whether there's a realistic-looking fake gun of the actual model Alec B fired, I have no idea.

Just saying ---- no realistic-looking guns are being made --- is a bit of overstmt, but no harm, no foul. my2ct.
Now, back to events on the Rust set.

_______________________________
* Just a couple quick searches.
Airsoft or real? QUIZ: Is This Gun Real or Fake?
Some real guns modified to look like toy guns. And vice versa.
toy gun or real gun images - Google Search

 

[Gardenista]

Halyna Hutchins' Husband Hires Attorneys Specializing in Wrongful Death Cases

 

[mickey2942]

Halyna Hutchins' Husband Hires Attorneys Specializing in Wrongful Death Cases

Based on this article, HGR wants to blame disgruntled employees who left for sabotage.

The problem with this, is that if HGR, Halls, and AB had followed proper safety protocols using guns, that sabotage would have been discovered.

HGR, securing weapons and all ammo, at all times in a secure manner. Not laying around on a cart. And verifying bullets when loading the gun, in front of the actor.
Or if due to Covid, in front of Halls.

Halls, obtaining gun and ammo directly from HGR, watching HGR visually loading gun, after verifying no bullets were in gun. And verifying that the bullets placed in gun "rattled", not real bullets.

AB: visually seeing gun, completely empty, visually verifying the bullets being placed in gun were dummies, and most importantly, never point gun at anyone and pull the trigger.

If each person in the chain had followed the safety protocols, sabotage would have been discovered prior to fatality of Halyna Hutchins.

 

[JudgeJoe]

I think they are painting a picture that there was intentional sabotage after she checked the gun with the AD.

To me, it looks bad for her but much worse for the AD who declared the gun cold and for the man who did not check the gun before he pulled the trigger, Alec Baldwin.

I guess I’m not surprised that her lawyers are claiming possible sabotage. Some of my family members were in Santa Fe a few days after the shooting, and all the buzz in town was that some one sabotaged the gun. Everyone was talking about it and the general feeling was that it was purposely done. People claimed to have insider knowledge, know a crew member, yada yada yada.

I actually wouldn’t be shocked if that does end up being the case, but it still doesn’t exonerate HGR for not doing her job. She should have found a live round if one had been put into the box of dummies. I think her lawyers know there’s no getting around that, so they’re putting it all out there. I guess they’re hoping that her incompetence won’t look as bad as the malice someone had to have put a real bullet(s) in the box?

But if there was indeed drunken plinking going on on set (we have yet to have this confirmed), then there’s also a good possibility that’s what happened instead. A live round was left in the gun or put in the box of dummies mistakenly.

Either way she didn’t catch it. It’s obvious to me her attorneys know this.

Just to consider possibilities… If HG is being truthful, and she loaded 6 dummy rounds correctly, then handed gun, correctly showing the rounds, to AD, then what can we assume? AD took a few dummy rounds out, replaced at least one with a live round & handed it to AB? Or he handed the inspected gun, with 6 dummies, to AB & AB changed it? Or someone, after HG passed the gun on, snuck it away from either AB or AD? Was the firearm ever out of their hands/sight? Someone is definitely not telling the truth. I just hope every single box & every single bullet was accurately mapped, catalogued, & collected to see who the liar was. Unless they wore gloves, LE should be able to assemble the facts. But wow that’s a lot of work. Tedious! This will take some serious time to analyze it all.

Although I think the bullet discrepancy is between HG & AD iirc…

 

[Luna20]

“According to the crew member, Gutierrez Reed didn't keep her weapons "safe" and "locked up" while filming. A photo provided by the person (seen above) shows guns strewn about on a prop table”

https://people.com/movies/rust-crew-member-details-red-flags-on-set-ahead-of-fatal-shooting/