Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[10ofRods]

HGR is displaying proper trigger finger discipline in this photo. Are those live rounds or dummy rounds in that gun belt slung over her shoulder?

Rookie armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed standing in circle with pair of Old West rifles and a revolver | Daily Mail Online

I'm going to guess dummies. In going down the rabbit hole on this case, I learned many more things about theatrical dummies. And one thing I learned is that for still photos and for most moving shots, dummies look better. They are painted/coated in such a way to be a nice golden color on the side that the camera catches and glows more, and then the tip is painted a coppery color because it looks cool (and sure doesn't look like lead).

I listened to an interesting youtube about film production (not sure I can post the actual youtube here), but the upshot is that it's not uncommon for the cast and crew to be very professional all day long, then cut loose in the late evening - it's a tradition. Since I've seen it with my own eyes when I was much younger, I'll just say that IME, this happens. But it was interesting to hear the view of a Hollywood insider on the subject.

 

[jjenny]

Some dummies are made out of live ammo. They are going to look live ammo. So no way to tell without examining closely as to what is in her gun belt. Could be dummies. Could be real. Who knows? Just like in the gun given to Baldwin.

 

[Luna20]

A dated summary with a few photos of his angry outburst. 1995-2018

Alec Baldwin: A look at the 'Rust' star's history in the headlines

 

[10ofRods]

Some dummies are made out of live ammo. They are going to look live ammo. So no way to tell without examining closely as to what is in her gun belt. Could be dummies. Could be real. Who knows? Just like in the gun given to Baldwin.

Sure could be real - but real ammo doesn't glow the way that well constructed prop ammo does. Perhaps she merely used professional lighting, but it's likely these were theatrical bullets - of the type almost always used on bullet belts in movies, because the camera picks up the colors and the bullets don't disappear into the belt.

You can find illustrations of how this works on youtube. At any rate, IMO, they are prop dummies designed to look cool in a belt, not gray lead top ammo (which if turned into dummies would be kind of dumb, because movie goers want unrealistic glamorous bullets, not the real deal on their screens - the scene is set much better with the coppery painted bullets).

But you're right. Someone could have turned real ammo into prop ammo (by just painting with craft paint). If someone did that, the FBI already knows - and wow, what a negligent thing to do.

I wouldn't put it past a group of people making a Nuevo Western set in an actual segment of sagebrush land, amidst its beauty and its challenges. People who hoped to retreat to nice hotels late at night and continue with their whirlwind relationship-building (they were from all over, as is typical on movie sets, and mostly young, making connections, setting up their next gigs by networking and friend-making).

 

[grammieto5]

I remember that voice message AB left for his daughter. I always wondered how that message was made public, who made it public.

 

[Luna20]

I remember that voice message AB left for his daughter. I always wondered how that message was made public, who made it public.

That was so sad for his daughter to have to publicly come to terms with. It seems they are fine now, she was online supporting him last week. His anger issues would concern me if I were close to him.

 

[Deleted member 254730]

Sure could be real - but real ammo doesn't glow the way that well constructed prop ammo does. Perhaps she merely used professional lighting, but it's likely these were theatrical bullets - of the type almost always used on bullet belts in movies, because the camera picks up the colors and the bullets don't disappear into the belt..

You misunderstand.

Most prop inert rounds are made from deactivated live ammuniton or collected brass.

The only inert ammunition that is made from the get go to be inert is training ammunition. And deliberately, these are made to have a very different appearance from live ammunition for good reason.

The only difference (besides certain additional drill holes) between a box of live ammunition and a box of inert rounds is that the inert bullets are probably given a bit of a shine. Even so, if you buy cheap $40 Remington Big Green and compare it with a premium round @$60 a box, the latter will be much better finished.

 

[Deleted member 254730]

They are painted/coated in such a way to be a nice golden color on the side that the camera catches and glows more, and then the tip is painted a coppery color because it looks cool (and sure doesn't look like lead).
.

No, dummy bullets aren't painted copper to make them lookm 2cool", they might be painted with copper because they are trying to imitate the ammunition they are baed upon. What do you think full metal jacket means?

 

[Antimony]

Actually "Full Metal Jacket" refers to the jacket over the bullet itself. It has nothing to do with the casing.
To make dummy bullets in pistol belt bullet loop shine, you just polish them up with a product called "BRASSO". It is well known to soldiers.
I cannot think of any reason to use real ammo to make dummies. Most sporting goods dealers sell .45 bullets( the lead piece) and 45 long colt brass casings.
Relatively cheap too. They may also be shipped without restriction.
They are inert components. To use real ammo for this would require you to pull the bullet from the casing of a LIVE round, empty the powder out, punch out the primer cap then drill a hole insert some b-b's and reseat the bullet. With the bulk components all you have to do is insert the b-b's and seat the bullet. This is a simple quick process.
It is cheap and safe to do.

 

[Antimony]

To keep the glow on the brass after polishing, a quick coat of poly acrilic clear coat works wonders.

 

[10ofRods]

To keep the glow on the brass after polishing, a quick coat of poly acrilic clear coat works wonders.

And...the crafts department (so excellent at this kind of thing) would likely be unhappy to learn that they had painted a live round. Surely that hasn't happened and has never happened (I can't find any evidence that it has - probably because the props department people aren't dum-dums, generallly).

 

[10ofRods]

Actually "Full Metal Jacket" refers to the jacket over the bullet itself. It has nothing to do with the casing.
To make dummy bullets in pistol belt bullet loop shine, you just polish them up with a product called "BRASSO". It is well known to soldiers.
I cannot think of any reason to use real ammo to make dummies. Most sporting goods dealers sell .45 bullets( the lead piece) and 45 long colt brass casings.
Relatively cheap too. They may also be shipped without restriction.
They are inert components. To use real ammo for this would require you to pull the bullet from the casing of a LIVE round, empty the powder out, punch out the primer cap then drill a hole insert some b-b's and reseat the bullet. With the bulk components all you have to do is insert the b-b's and seat the bullet. This is a simple quick process.
It is cheap and safe to do.

Surely the only reason would be nefarious? The alleged live ammo used on the set of The Deer Hunter was nefarious IMO (I have disliked the movie since it was released - but I only recently learned about the alleged live ammo). But those were the days of so-called "psychodrama" which purported to be therapeutic by putting people in nearly realistic situations of danger and then calling it "therapy" or "art."

I can't think of any reason that any props department would use live ammo and paint it. In fact, it's cheap to buy it pre-polished and coated (and that's one of the main kinds of dummies).

My dad used to get all agitated when the shape and size of the dummy round in the gun belt didn't match the gun (or the sound of the flight of the bullet didn't match the weapon). But that was a different era. No one knows that stuff now. Really, people probably prefer the Quentin Tarantino/post-production-amazing special effects approach).

 

[steeltowngirl]

I am still trying to educate myself on ammunition, particularly dummy rounds.

Here is a link to “How to Make Dummy Rounds.”
How to Make Dummy Rounds

The takeaway for me was in the comments.. “Too easy to get mixed with live rounds for me, you could just buy dummy rounds.”

 

[jjenny]

I am still trying to educate myself on ammunition, particularly dummy rounds.

Here is a link to “How to Make Dummy Rounds.”
How to Make Dummy Rounds

The takeaway for me was in the comments.. “Too easy to get mixed with live rounds for me, you could just buy dummy rounds.”

Like I said, dummies can be made from live ammo. I noticed this guy didn't put bbs into the dummy he made, but he did drill a hole on the side.
What I hear from HGR's lawyers is that she got dummies from a box labeled "dummy" therefore they should have been dummies.
I haven't heard anything as to how she checked they were actually dummies. Sounds to me she just assumed they were dummies because they were from a box labeled "dummy." Experienced armorers check to make sure dummies are actually dummies, and then one can actually fire the gun into the ground for a final check.

 

[Luna20]

I watched Ashley Banfield last night. She had an expert armorer and an attorney on. I finally understand the difference between the live and dummies. They are similar but an experienced armorer would definitely know the difference. You can tell by seeing and hearing it. He had a gun and showed the gun while loading it. What struck me was you can only see the whole bullets by opening the gun, as opposed to just spinning the barrel.

It still comes down to who loaded the gun. The attorney said she obviously didn’t check the ammo as she loaded it or someone else loaded it and she didn’t check it. Her claim that there was a live bullet dressed identical to a dummy is nothing he has ever heard of outside of a custom made piece for jewelry or decorative items.

He spoke respectfully about how her attorneys aren’t helping her. They have given 3 or 4 different statements already. He is inclined to think they aren’t experienced enough to handle this case and that is why they continue to talk.

Ashley mentioned asking LE if they checked her pockets and they responded by saying they could not respond to that right now.

 

[10ofRods]

Alec Baldwin househunting in Vermont.

One of the homes is a 14,000 sf mansion that's a mere $3.6 million. He has quietly starting "shopping" his penthouse in Manhattan, he paid almost $12M for it in 2011. He may feel a greater need to sell the Manhattan property right now. It is not in the open real estate listings, I'm sure he will want to arrange a quiet sale - probably for about $15-20M. In that way, he can afford his attorney's fees.

More evidence that cashflow is not great. He got $1400 per appearance on SNL and they just hired a new Trump impersonator.

 

[10ofRods]

Crew member on "Rust" has multiple surgeries after brown recluse spider bite while taking down the set.

It's like this production was cursed or something. This young man has a best case scenario of keeping his arm, but possibly never getting back full function of it. Doctors say he's set for a considerably long recovery - but they are also uncertain whether they can save the arm from amputation at this time (necrosis).

 

[PoppyBear]

Alec Baldwin househunting in Vermont.

One of the homes is a 14,000 sf mansion that's a mere $3.6 million. He has quietly starting "shopping" his penthouse in Manhattan, he paid almost $12M for it in 2011. He may feel a greater need to sell the Manhattan property right now. It is not in the open real estate listings, I'm sure he will want to arrange a quiet sale - probably for about $15-20M. In that way, he can afford his attorney's fees.

More evidence that cashflow is not great. He got $1400 per appearance on SNL and they just hired a new Trump impersonator.

Interesting! I did a bit of searching and there is a house that is under contract on or around 11/6/21.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I don't think he's being canceled. I think he doesn't have the heart to do SNL right now. Smiling with his kids is one thing, but doing comedy on a national show is quite another. Besides, he already stated that all of his projects are on hold. He's not going to act on SNL in the midst of this.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

To recap.

If he truly puts all projects on hold like he said he had, and doesn't take a 5 minute job on SNL, it clearly means he's been canceled.

Had he done SNL, however, although it would mean he hasn't been completely canceled it would clearly mean he is both hard up for money and a heartless, disgusting cretin.

How does he do the right thing again?

Oh, that's right. He can't. Because he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.