Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #4

[10ofRods]

Maybe I’m getting confused in all the finger pointing. I thought HGR said she wasn’t even around when the AD took the gun from the tray. So AB must be used to taking the gun from the AD without witnessing the armourer around the set. That’s a lot of trust, more than I’d have but if that is standard procedure, so be it.

Well, it's not industry wide "standard procedure." It's just this production, out of thousands.

 

[10ofRods]

I may have missed it,and please forgive me if I have,but do we know yet if AB was on set in the church when HGR spun the cylinder for DH?, it looks to be a small building and I am wondering if its possible that AB could have seen HGR and DH supposedly checking the weapon,although not close enough to verify for himself,but enough for him to confident when DH handed him the "cold gun".
This could explain why the blind trust. Not an excuse but an explanation.

Of course if he wasn't there yet then it negates that theory!

I don't think she went inside the church. She says she left the cart right outside and DH is described as going out to get it. All of this is secondhand, of course, needs corroboration.

The whole point of having three people check upon two hand-offs is that they view the ammo up close, so as to identify it. Dummies used in theatrical productions are designed to look real. One needs to examine rather carefully.

At any rate, HGR says she dropped the cart off, not that she handed the weapon to DH.

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah that was what I was getting at with my original post (the one before the quoted one). I couldn’t imagine this was the standard procedure that AB would have routinely followed on all his other movies. I wondered why did he do it differently this time around. I guess we will never know.

I think the civil suits will reveal a lot. Unlike criminal cases, civil suits can call on anyone to depose, under penalty of perjury.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I think the civil suits will reveal a lot. Unlike criminal cases, civil suits can call on anyone to depose, under penalty of perjury.

It's a little more complicated than that:

When a Defendant’s Employee Takes the Fifth During a Deposition - Lowey Dannenberg

 

[Arkay]

Laura Bush Opens Up in New Book on Teenaged Fatal Car Crash

I'm not a fan of AB and his bullying style, even since way before this. I'm also not too thrilled with some of the things he's done since this tragedy.

However, IMO he's not wrong to hang out with his family. He has a lot of little ones and they're still a family. I begrudge him for many things but what is the alternative for him? Until the case is settled one way or the other?

I've always remembered that the publicly sweet, gentle librarian Laura Bush accidentally killed her friend when she was young. Her fault---drove through a stop sign. She went through her agonies and even though she was a teenager, clearly went on to become First Lady.

I don’t care how Alec is punished but he is still alive, and I’m also no fan of Hilaria, but his kids need a dad.

 

[wary]

Recommendation isn't the same as a requirement, is it? And if the armorer and AD don't examine the gun in front of the actor, would that be the fault of the actor?
Or armorer's and AD's?

MOO

The fault of everyone. But it’s the actor’s choice to rush ahead, point a working gun at someone at extremely close range, and pull the trigger, against all rules of safe firearm handling.

And in his position, (big name, personal pet project, one of the producers,) I think he was in an excellent position to say: “Hold on—let’s do this right!” and have no repercussions that’d affect his future hireability. (Of course, the smallest name imaginable, who had a respect for human life, could still refuse to ‘rehearse’ in such a manner.)

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

It's a little more complicated than that:

When a Defendant’s Employee Takes the Fifth During a Deposition - Lowey Dannenberg

I didn't say it wasn't complicated - the issue you raise is way down the road. But yes, if HGR is criminally indicted (or if anyone fears criminal indictment), they can take the 5th. I will say that in all the hundreds of civil cases I've been involved in, it doesn't work out well when judgment is rendered. Juries are not fond of this at all and it's pretty much taken by them as prima facie evidence that the person is not a good person and may be criminally involved.

Very few lawyers will advise this route, unless of course, the person is actually under criminal indictment.

So we wait. To see if there are ever any criminal indictments in this case (I believe there will be). And the civil complaints may come after that. If no criminal complaints by the first of the year, I think the civil cases will proceed.

If the producers are named in civil complaints (which they are in the only one so far), and one of their employees can't testify due to fears of self-incrimination, insurance companies and juries are both going to look askance. It would be very interesting and rather a twist in what will surely be high profile cases.

 

[grammieto5]

Not sure what do you think people who accidentally killed someone should do instead of carrying on-jump off a bridge?

You know what, my statement was meant exactly as I wrote it. How does someone "carry on" "keep on going" after they have ended a life. Maybe I should have added, so soon after the life has ended. As many here have done, just making it personal. It took me about 5 years to get back to normal living, after being the one to make the decision to end my Mom's life, and then a year later to make the same decision for my brother. I honestly don't understand the anger from some here towards others for stating an opinion.

 

[grammieto5]

I guess they just do,one day at a time. What is the alternative?. He has 6 young kids, as harsh as it sounds,life has to go on. You can see the stress in his face,the bags under his eyes.
I know some people will say that is because he is worried about losing all his money,losing his career etc but I think it's OK to cut the guy a bit of slack here. Regardless of our opinion of him and wether we believe he was negligent or not,I think its OK to believe that the fact that ultimately it was him who ended a woman's life might weigh heavily on him. He can be all the things he is alleged to be (and we have all seen or read evidence of this over the years), he might not be the nicest person but he is still human.

I'm not saying anything negative towards AB, I happen to like him. I like all the Baldwin boys. I was JUST ASKING A QUESTION. YES, I do believe he is responsible for what happened, he pulled the trigger.

 

[10ofRods]

You know what, my statement was meant exactly as I wrote it. How does someone "carry on" "keep on going" after they have ended a life. Maybe I should have added, so soon after the life has ended. As many here have done, just making it personal. It took me about 5 years to get back to normal living, after being the one to make the decision to end my Mom's life, and then a year later to make the same decision for my brother. I honestly don't understand the anger from some here towards others for stating an opinion.

There's a lot of advice available. It's a deep topic.

The Sorrow and the Shame of the Accidental Killer

Funeral directors are also trained in helping people cope with regular accidental deaths and the advice is definitely pertinent.

Talking about the deceased, using their name, seek support from others, admit you need support, give yourself time to grieve, be compassionate to oneself.

For those who have caused an accidental death, of course, it's more complex. Most people feel the need to admit what they've done, just admitting that one has done it is apparently helpful in processing the grief and "carrying on." People are different of course, but feeling lost is one of the main feelings of processing grief, so accepting help from others and looking for instructions on what to do is a healthy response, IMO.

I'm not seeing any anger, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[katydid23]

Recommendation isn't the same as a requirement, is it? And if the armorer and AD don't examine the gun in front of the actor, would that be the fault of the actor?
Or armorer's and AD's?

It would be the fault of all of them.

The actor is the final responsibility because the weapon is placed in his hands. He has his finger on the trigger. So he has the ultimate responsibility in the end.

If he doesn't see, with his own eyes, the AD or armorer checking the weapon, right before it is handed too him, then it is his ultimate responsibility to check it himself or make them do it in his presence.

Safety protocols are requirements, not suggestions.

If someone handed you a gun and told it was unloaded and wanted you to point it at someone, would you take their word for it?

 

[katydid23]

I may have missed it,and please forgive me if I have,but do we know yet if AB was on set in the church when HGR spun the cylinder for DH?, it looks to be a small building and I am wondering if its possible that AB could have seen HGR and DH supposedly checking the weapon,although not close enough to verify for himself,but enough for him to confident when DH handed him the "cold gun".
This could explain why the blind trust. Not an excuse but an explanation.

Of course if he wasn't there yet then it negates that theory!

According to articles, which I will try to find again, AB was NOT there when the gun was allegedly checked by HGR and DH.

AB was not on set at that time, and there was a pre-rehearsal, where AD stood in for AB, using the same gun, so the lights and cameras could set top the shots. And after that was done, AB arrived on set and used the same weapon, that DH had been using immediately before him.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

According to articles, which I will try to find again, AB was NOT there when the gun was allegedly checked by HGR and DH.

AB was not on set at that time, and there was a pre-rehearsal, where AD stood in for AB, using the same gun, so the lights and cameras could set top the shots. And after that was done, AB arrived on set and used the same weapon, that DH had been using immediately before him.

Yes, if the LA Times article is correct, AB was not there...

That Thursday, the crew began preparing for the scene before Baldwin had returned from his lunch break. Gutierrez Reed entered the church with the firearms, performing a safety check with the Colt .45 in front of Halls. He thought he saw three rounds inside the gun, but he did not check them before taking the weapon in his hand.

He told investigators that “he should have checked all of them, but didn’t, and couldn’t recall if she spun the drum,” according to the affidavit.

The armorer left the church.

(...)

The day Alec Baldwin shot Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza

 

[EGirl]

I'm late to this thread, but why was he pointing and firing at them anyway?

 

[jjenny]

I'm late to this thread, but why was he pointing and firing at them anyway?

He was rehearsing a scene in which his character was pointing a gun in a general direction of the camera.

 

[Jax49]

He was rehearsing a scene in which his character was pointing a gun in a general direction of the camera.

Just jumping off your post.

He was practicing a cross draw, right? I wonder if he actually cocked the gun and pulled the trigger, or if it got caught on something?

 

[Gardenista]

George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating'

Here's what Clooney does when he's handed a gun:

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on set, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it to, we show it to the crew, every single take you hand it back to the armour when you're done, and you do it again. Everyone does it.

 

[Luna20]

If anyone is watching the Rittenhouse trial it was a good example of how to pass off a gun and check it before pointing it. The judge took the opportunity to say “check it again” after the first check.

To me it is instinctive to check a gun that’s been handed to you.

 

[jjenny]

Just jumping off your post.

He was practicing a cross draw, right? I wonder if he actually cocked the gun and pulled the trigger, or if it got caught on something?

We don't know why the gun was fired.

 

[jjenny]

George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating'

Here's what Clooney does when he's handed a gun:

"Every single time I'm handed a gun on set, I look at it, I open it, I show it to the person I'm pointing it to, we show it to the crew, every single take you hand it back to the armour when you're done, and you do it again. Everyone does it.

Just opening it wouldn't be enough. It would have to be unloaded and each round examined to make sure it's a dummy.

"Maybe Alec did that, I hope he did, but the problem is, dummies are tricky. Because they look like real bullets. They've got a tiny hole at the back where someone has taken the gunpowder out."
George Clooney says Alec Baldwin film set tragedy is 'insane and infuriating' - Mirror Online