Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[Trebor5591]

Alec Baldwin shouted 'why was I handed a hot gun' after shooting crewmember
IMO the one most culpable is the AD that handed over and announced that the gun was “cold”.

The most culpable person is the individual who put live rounds in the pistol and left them there.

 

[whitelilac]

I expect that the bullet was retrieved, either from on site or from Souza's shoulder. I also expect it will be determined that Hutchin's fatal injury was caused by that bullet.
Can that bullet be traced by some means to a "lot" or whatever, to know its origin? For example if it came from the armorer's supply?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Could Alec Baldwin be charged? Who is liable in Halyna Hutchins' death? Legal experts weigh in
According to lawyers, here are some of the potential legal ramifications of the tragic Alec Baldwin prop gun incident that killed a cinematographer.

Will Alec Baldwin face charges? Legal experts discuss prop gun tragedy

 

[steeltowngirl]

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source
"He was hysterical and absolutely inconsolable for hours. Everyone knows this was an accident, but he’s absolutely devastated," a source tells PEOPLE of Halyna Hutchins' death

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source

 

[Satchie]

The most culpable person is the individual who put live rounds in the pistol and left them there.

I agree. Safety protocols are internal rules to the film industry, whereas criminal law doesn't deal with safety protocols, it deals with who actually committed actions like loading a gun.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Could Alec Baldwin be charged? Who is liable in Halyna Hutchins' death? Legal experts weigh in
According to lawyers, here are some of the potential legal ramifications of the tragic Alec Baldwin prop gun incident that killed a cinematographer.

Will Alec Baldwin face charges? Legal experts discuss prop gun tragedy

From the link:

Miguel Custodio says reports of crew members walking off set earlier that day in protest of work conditions could suggest the production bears some responsibility. And that could include Baldwin, who also serves as a producer on the film. "If there were corners that were cut and those corners had any role into the death of the director of photography and the injury of the director, then Alec Baldwin is very much liable, not as the actor but more as the producer," he says.

 

[Satchie]

From the link:

Miguel Custodio says reports of crew members walking off set earlier that day in protest of work conditions could suggest the production bears some responsibility. And that could include Baldwin, who also serves as a producer on the film. "If there were corners that were cut and those corners had any role into the death of the director of photography and the injury of the director, then Alec Baldwin is very much liable, not as the actor but more as the producer," he says.

Also from the link

"it's unlikely the "30 Rock" alum will face criminal charges, especially if he didn't know the firearm contained live ammunition, says Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor".

Sometimes when people talk about 'liability' they are talking about who can be sued. However, I'm sure producers are insured from personal liability, the same as everyone else these days.

 

[Speculaytor]

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source
"He was hysterical and absolutely inconsolable for hours. Everyone knows this was an accident, but he’s absolutely devastated," a source tells PEOPLE of Halyna Hutchins' death

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source

I can only imagine, I have been praying for him. The guilt of not checking the gun himself will be with him forever. I just can't imagine how he will get over this, he is such an intense man. I hope they keep an eye on him, don't let him be alone. He has kids, so I don't think he would do anything to himself, but the guilt, the horrendous inability to take that moment back must be unbearable.

 

[10ofRods]

I can only imagine, I have been praying for him. The guilt of not checking the gun himself will be with him forever. I just can't imagine how he will get over this, he is such an intense man. I hope they keep an eye on him, don't let him be alone. He has kids, so I don't think he would do anything to himself, but the guilt, the horrendous inability to take that moment back must be unbearable.

From what I understand and have read of his own words, he has his methods of coping. This is a big one, the worst thing he's done of course, but it's the outcome of other past behaviors of poor impulse control and poor judgment. Thought he was a real cowboy, was a movie cowboy. But all people who handle guns are responsible for the outcome.

That's why there's a large body of law regarding negligence and firearms...Colt 45's don't fire themselves (and are very easy to check to see if there's a round next to the hammer) Too busy playing cowboy and relying on un-instructed newbie staff (which his own company hired) and not enough familiarity with gun safety. Not even a toy gun should *ever* be pointed at someone you don't want to kill.

Unfortunately the crews members are non -union. This being a low budget production corners were cut to save money. Horrible what happened to this young lady.
Can’t believe live rounds were on the set.

I’m a military veteran the only time live rounds were handed out was during fire practice at the firing range. The military armory knew how many rounds were given out . We would check in each rifle after it’s use.

Oh - but it was union until that very morning!

And if it weren't union, I suppose Netflix would still show it - but Netflix would be breaking industry rules by doing so, and somehow, I don't think that's the stance Netflix or any other distributor will take. This movie will never see the light of day and everything about it will be liquidated - and the insurer will never insure anyone associated with this group, ever again. No one will insure another movie whose production company is owned by AB.

 

[10ofRods]

Also from the link

"it's unlikely the "30 Rock" alum will face criminal charges, especially if he didn't know the firearm contained live ammunition, says Neama Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor".

Sometimes when people talk about 'liability' they are talking about who can be sued. However, I'm sure producers are insured from personal liability, the same as everyone else these days.

And that's the really sad part. Alec is not only a producer, but owns the production company. Amazing how individual humans who are rich can escape punishment for things that would land the rest of us in jail, stat.

From the link:

Miguel Custodio says reports of crew members walking off set earlier that day in protest of work conditions could suggest the production bears some responsibility. And that could include Baldwin, who also serves as a producer on the film. "If there were corners that were cut and those corners had any role into the death of the director of photography and the injury of the director, then Alec Baldwin is very much liable, not as the actor but more as the producer," he says.

One of the things they complained about was a prior firing of a gun (with live rounds), that was thought to be unloaded - the Head Armourer was incensed, as it meant someone had been fiddling with the guns. An investigation is occurring and hopefully, the Sheriff will figure out what the heck ANY live ammo was doing on a movie set.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree. Safety protocols are internal rules to the film industry, whereas criminal law doesn't deal with safety protocols, it deals with who actually committed actions like loading a gun.

Or with negligent firing of a firearm. If I "accidentally" grabbed my gun wrong and shot a hole through my wall and that struck someone else - I'd go to jail. Even if I had been assured multiple times by others in my household that it was not loaded. It would be on me. Completely.

Movie rules mirror criminal laws about use of guns - but anyone who negligently fires a gun and damages something or kills someone (even if it's New Year's Eve and 'they didn't mean to' or 'didn't know it was a live round' - they face criminal consequences, severe in many places).

 

[10ofRods]

I expect that the bullet was retrieved, either from on site or from Souza's shoulder. I also expect it will be determined that Hutchin's fatal injury was caused by that bullet.
Can that bullet be traced by some means to a "lot" or whatever, to know its origin? For example if it came from the armorer's supply?

Sure - if the armorer had live rounds on set. Why in the world would they, though?

And if they did, whose fault was that? Why, the person who owned the production, obviously.

The most culpable person is the individual who put live rounds in the pistol and left them there.

I am not going to apportion blame, but the person who pulls a trigger while aiming at a living person is always culpable, under every state's laws - at least in part. Check your guns before firing - always. Because maybe some crazy pants person has loaded it and is trying to cause mayhem.

Also, don't hire crazy pants people to handle guns would be another piece of advice - but this low budget production with high turnover, walk-outs and a person who actually said out loud "I'm not sure I'm ready to be the armourer"...is a problem. A big problem.

Can you imagine if it were your workplace and someone brought in a gun that was supposed to be a cigarette lighter, but it shot and killed your coworker when you went to use it? Personally, I don't think guns should be played with - ever. And that's what the union rules say (and saying "unions be damned" results in tragedies like this one - a lesson learned way too late by the owners of this production company).

I wonder what their insurance policy says about criminal negligence on set...it'll be an interesting thing. Probably all of it settled out of court.

 

[Dotta]

I can only imagine, I have been praying for him. The guilt of not checking the gun himself will be with him forever. I just can't imagine how he will get over this, he is such an intense man. I hope they keep an eye on him, don't let him be alone. He has kids, so I don't think he would do anything to himself, but the guilt, the horrendous inability to take that moment back must be unbearable.

"The Last Shot" that changed everything.

 

[LadyL]

Alec Baldwin shouted 'why was I handed a hot gun' after shooting crewmember
IMO the one most culpable is the AD that handed over and announced that the gun was “cold”.

I'm having trouble figuring out why 'hot' guns are even on a set
can they really not use a fake gun and dub in the sound effects?
really confusing

 

[steeltowngirl]

Sure - if the armorer had live rounds on set. Why in the world would they, though?

And if they did, whose fault was that? Why, the person who owned the production, obviously.

The movie set should have been shut down the first time live gunshot was reported. We are hearing there were THREE incidents. The producers and directors had to know, and they could have prevented this senseless death.

I believe the producers will ultimately be liable, but I will be surprised if criminal charges are filed. Most definitely there will be a huge wrongful death settlement.

I hope there will be massive changes related to safety and the use of firearms in the entertainment industry as a result.

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

They absolutely can, but unfortunately a lot of these actors unions are so widespread that there is tons of bureaucracy they have to wrestle through in order to get even a small change made.

In this case, had the actual regulations that the union signed onto been followed, this death would not have occurred. And the union members walked out because live rounds had already been fired by a stunt actor, within the last two weeks, leading to a whole bunch of the crew regarding the conditions as unsafe (that and some other things).

 

[10ofRods]

​

This sound like useless hyperbole. I have some experience with firearms, in the military and in civilian life. I have never, ever, heard of requirements that a weapon be standardly “quadruple checked”, or checked 4 times. The notion is ridiculous, IMO.

Especially with a revolver. Even a 5 year old can be taught to spin the barrel and make sure there are no rounds. Neither the "armourer" or the grabby "assistant director" (who according to union protocols wasn't to touch the gun) nor the actor (who in fact was supposed to second check) did this simple procedure...mind-boggling.

That's why a lot of us learned to shoot revolvers first, when our trigger fingers got strong enough - because even a kid can easily check to see if it's loaded and by age 7-8, a kid knows where the hammer is and knows how to figure out where the rounds are in relation to the hammer (for my dad, leaving one empty chamber and putting that next to the hammer was his form of "safety" - used by cowboys since revolvers began).

 

[whitelilac]

As a producer, would AB have any responsibility in having hired that rookie 24 year old armorer. The producer list had several people on it.
She signed a contract...wouldn't that contract include stringent safety protocols for which she was responsible?

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

More fun to have classic Colts and other classic guns on the set. I figure that the crew really liked handling those guns and more than one person did so. Wouldn't be at all surprised that someone brought some live rounds for a bit of rabbit shooting or target practice once most people had gone home...someone will tell the whole story to LE, I'm sure.

I do think there will be criminal charges here, somewhere.

I don't think Alec Baldwin had any say in who was hired, nor in how they were managed. He had already posted on social media that he supported the IATSE workers who had walked off the set.

From what I've read, there are different types of "producer" credits. Not everyone who is named as a co-producer is in charge of budget, hiring and firing, management of employees, etc.

Hope this link helps. It explains the different roles for various types of producers.

Film producer - Wikipedia

Here's a link to the IMDB page for "Rust". It shows thirteen (13) different producers for this film, including Alec Baldwin

Rust - Full Cast & Crew - IMDb

Alec Baldwin ... producer
Kc Brandenstein ... co-producer
Allen Cheney ... executive producer
Matt DelPiano ... producer
Tyler Gould ... executive producer
Matthew Helderman ... executive producer
Nathan Klingher ... producer
Anjul Nigam ... producer
Emily Hunter Salveson ... executive producer
Ryan Donnell Smith ... producer
Luke Taylor ... executive producer
Ryan Winterstern ... producer

We'll have to agree to disagree. He owned the production company. Of course, I'm sure it was insured - but he wasn't just a producer. He's the owner of the darned production company too.

Buck has to stop somewhere - you can't have individuals getting killed on movie sets because of incompetent hires and have *no one* held responsible. Landis was brought on criminal charges (along with the helicopter pilot too). Jury decided it wasn't negligent homicide - but I think it was appropriate to take it to trial and it certainly changed the industry.

That happened about 8 miles from my house...followed it closely. Was tried in my local courthouse, went to part of the trial. Jury was not happy, but they couldn't reach a unanimous verdict and it was a mega-expensive trial.

And you left out the production companies involved (all will probably share liability). Look up El Dorado Pictures...

 

[Satchie]

I'm having trouble figuring out why 'hot' guns are even on a set
can they really not use a fake gun and dub in the sound effects?
really confusing

I'm confused too. However, maybe there are film people who routinely carry loaded weapons for personal protection, or maybe (tongue in cheek) it's part of 'method acting' to carry a real loaded gun and sometimes fire it off just to embody your character from the inside?