Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021

[10ofRods]

He is more than an actor--he is a producer on the project. A producer has much higher level of responsibility.

Two things concern me about this case:

1) There were reports of labor unrest on this movie production. Halyna Hutchins, who was shot and killed by Alex Baldwin, the lead actor and producer on the Movie Rust, was openly supporting a group of workers who had just been replaced by Baldwin that same day. Halyna Hutchins supported a Hollywood union protesting dangerous working conditions days before she was shot on the 'Rust' set

2) Halyna Hutchins was the Director of Photography on the set of Rust. She was not an actress. There was nothing in the script of Rust calling on Baldwin's character to shoot the prop gun at the Director of Photography. Why did Baldwin point the gun at her and pull the trigger? This was grossly unsafe and seems to me to be negligent at the very least.

I believe this is going to have a major impact on Baldwin. I would not be surprised at criminal charges being filed against him.

He's also an owner of one of the production companies - so there's that.

Also, they weren't even filming a scene and there was no scene in which anyone aimed a gun at the camera or the director or the camera person. They were rehearsing a scene wherein Alec's character walked backward out of a church, holding a gun in his hand, pointing forward. From an angle.

You are absolutely right - and there was no armourer on the roster (bad) and absolutely no scripted scene where Baldwin's character shoots at a camera, or toward a camera...

Did she have any kind of licence?
I ask b/c being a daughter of some famous armourer is not enough credit I think.
Im asking b/c Im really curious.

No, she did not have a license and was not a member of the Propmasters Union. She was a scab, to put it bluntly. And she didn't think she had the experience to do it:

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

In short, she was a "faux" armourer, because they wanted the film to be on schedule and it was a very, very cheap production. A vanity production, IMO.

 

[Speculaytor]

So when I read that the gun had been misfired two times earlier in the week, I assumed those were blanks. Now, I am reading posts here stating they were live rounds? Has this been verified? Because if two live rounds were misfired from that gun earlier in the week, and there was a written complaint, it seems there HAVE to be charges filed. They KNEW they were dealing with live ammunition on set. They are not supposed to have loaded guns, or real ammunition on set, right??

 

[Satchie]

The allegations about previous mishaps on set were apparently made by an anonymous employee: unless someone has confirmed those comments, I don't think they can be taken as gospel truth yet.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm confused too. However, maybe there are film people who routinely carry loaded weapons for personal protection, or maybe (tongue in cheek) it's part of 'method acting' to carry a real loaded gun and sometimes fire it off just to embody your character from the inside?

Yeah, I thought about that too. If it's determined that that was happening, with Baldwin or any other actor, then it's on the actor entirely (IMO), just like it would be for any one of us if we shot someone at work "accidentally" while carrying a weapon that everyone else thought was an unloaded prop.

Don't get me started on "prop guns" in the workplace (I work at a college - at one point, some people actually had a plan to do an active shooter training while students were on campus and to use unloaded real guns as well as prop guns - the number of "unloaded real guns" that have shot college employees around the US is definitely greater than zero).

I have been a huge Alec Baldwin fan, so I am very saddened by this - but he needs to face the music and at least plead out to negligent firing of a gun and do some community service, pay a hefty fine, dissolve his production company and pay the victim's family a whole boatload of money. IMO.

I know many would be happy to see AB take the fall here. I don't like him much either, and he doesn't seem like a nice person. But IMO, it was not his job to check the gun. How about holding the person who had one job to do and could not do it properly? The Amorer, who didn't even know how to handle blanks.

Are we going to start sending people to jail because they are not...nice?

Moo.

No - but the rules do call for the actor to perform the final check and that they follow direction about where to shoot - because even "blanks" can be dangerous, as everyone knows. It's not just the Propmaster, it's not just the Armourer - it's also the Actor - three systems in place. Two were ignored. And the third aimed at something not in the script.

It would be interesting to see how different it would be if this accident happened to a “likable” actor.

Who would that even be? I've defended Alec a lot, despite his blowhard ways, and my belief that he's a bit kookoo. But he's talented. Can you name an actor we've all heard of that is mostly likable? I can't stand Tom Hanks, who IMO, can't act. Tom Cruise? All the young actors I like are virtual unknowns - but I bet they'd be in very hot water if they shot the cinematographer. Never work again.

I would have no more compassion for Tom Hanks. John Travolta, I guess (if the director was Quentin - but then I'd blame Quentin entirely).

 

[Gardenista]

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source
"He was hysterical and absolutely inconsolable for hours. Everyone knows this was an accident, but he’s absolutely devastated," a source tells PEOPLE of Halyna Hutchins' death

Alec Baldwin 'Canceling Other Projects' After Rust Shooting Death, 'Inconsolable for Hours' Says Source

Major eyeroll. If he cared, he would have led the walkout.

 

[10ofRods]

So when I read that the gun had been misfired two times earlier in the week, I assumed those were blanks. Now, I am reading posts here stating they were live rounds? Has this been verified? Because if two live rounds were misfired from that gun earlier in the week, and there was a written complaint, it seems there HAVE to be charges filed. They KNEW they were dealing with live ammunition on set. They are not supposed to have loaded guns, or real ammunition on set, right??

I don't know what "verified" means in this context. Several crew members have spoken to MSM and said so. It's why the director of photography (the dead woman) was agitating for/condoning the walk-out. She was VERY concerned about safety and the fact that a stunt actor had shot (on script, thankfully) two live rounds.

I've already expressed my views about how the rounds might have gotten onto the set...

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So when I read that the gun had been misfired two times earlier in the week, I assumed those were blanks. Now, I am reading posts here stating they were live rounds? Has this been verified? Because if two live rounds were misfired from that gun earlier in the week, and there was a written complaint, it seems there HAVE to be charges filed. They KNEW they were dealing with live ammunition on set. They are not supposed to have loaded guns, or real ammunition on set, right??

The term "misfire" means the gun didn't fire anything, blanks or live ammunition.

I think some may be confusing an unintentional firing of a prop gun, whether it's blanks or live ammo, as being a "misfire".

For me I'd like to learn more about the prior mishaps on set. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I suspect when all is said and done that many people will be found culpable to varying degrees. But for me, common sense tells me that those whose job descriptions were literally to handle the safety of the guns and props bear the most significant amount of responsibility. If your job title is armourer or includes prop management in the title, it would seem that every other employee on the set is relying on you to manage and ensure the safety of the prop guns.

Someone or some persons literally failed at what was their entire job and purpose on the set. Those whose duty it was to double or triple check those people, as maybe 2% of their entire job duties, bear some responsibility, of course. But come on - if your ONE job is this - your entire purpose for being on the set is this, it seems to me the greatest failure was there.

I trust your views and I'm very curious what you'd think if the real armourer didn't show up that day and instead of halting shooting, they grabbed a person who herself said she wasn't sure she knew what she was doing...who did this hasty employment of the person who is now the fall girl? It doesn't seem right to blame a person for doing a bad job, when they were hired and pressed into service in a capacity for which they were not prepared.

Head armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was "nervous" about experience level before taking job

Most places would place heavy blame on whoever did this hiring. A producer, HR, whatever...who was it? I want to know.

See this is why I think it’s time the industry stops using actual weapons while filming. They really can do anything in post production and make it look and sound real. I think on a film like this the thinking is that it’s more authentic and you get more realistic reactions from actors when using a real gun. Also the budget is a concern here. It’s going to be more expensive to use sophisticated effects in post production—a lot of it comes down to money. But they CAN do it and should IMO.

See, but then tiny actor-owned vanity companies would be out of business. And all the fun of watching Westerns would be gone. Nothing like a real Colt .45, and I hate filters, CGI, etc and can't get anyone I know to go see movies of that type with me (although...I will agree that the flashlights on the X-files started a great trend and no real flashlights are ever used any more).

There are airsoft Colts that look real - but the thing to do is to do what a friend of mine does; he works within the film industry and he plugs the chambers on old weapons so that no bullets can be put in them - then the heft and the beloved Colt 45 profile is there, but the sound effects are added later. If it's a rifle, a white puff of smoke is added, digitally. That I can handle. Older audiences (and Alec's audiences are not young) like seeing the "real deal." Same with war movies.

But there are ways of making it safe. This production was so cheap, it chose to cut corners in every possible direction. Not-very-experienced director, remote cheap location, mostly unknowns in the small cast - and the union workers finally walked off when their paychecks didn't go through and they were forced to sleep in cars (after being promised hotel rooms in Santa Fe). New arrangements were being made for them, that's true - but an hour away in Albuquerque, and they had to be on set at 4-5 am, so, yeah, they slept in their cars.

 

[Luna20]

Alec Baldwin ignored No. 1 rule of gun safety, expert says

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The allegations about previous mishaps on set were apparently made by an anonymous employee: unless someone has confirmed those comments, I don't think they can be taken as gospel truth yet.

True. But we do know that safety protocols were not followed when Halyna Hutchins and Joel Suoza were shot by Alec Baldwin.

Was there a pattern of non adherence to safety rules? JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

The allegations about previous mishaps on set were apparently made by an anonymous employee: unless someone has confirmed those comments, I don't think they can be taken as gospel truth yet.

Not even the gospels contain "gospel truth." But I am glad the Sheriff swooped in immediately and took all cameras, digital equipment, prop guns and anything else he could think of. I also think the crew will spill its guts and it won't be pretty. The PR machinery is already trying to gear up, but this is a major crime and I do think we'll hear a little (settling for big bucks, out of court, will quiet everything down again - but eventually, someone will give an interview).

Almost no one working on this production is going to get another job, unless they were in the union and walked out to protest unsafe conditions, in which case they'll probably get lots of job offers (and we'll hear them speak).

Maybe I am naïve and stupid, but with all the money in the movie industry, they couldn't have invented realistic looking fake guns?

Is it that actors and directors want to feel powerful playing with real guns? What is the point of using a real operational gun instead of a plastic or non-operational replica?

The fantasy and superhero movies they make take place on other planets. They can't use safe (non-functional) guns?

They have. But everything I read characterizes this is as a very low budget production (and hastily put together too - it wasn't even on Alec's IMDB roster six months ago...and he hired himself and paid for it himself, so there's that).

Someone wanted "realism" and the feel of a real Colt .45 in his hand. Not an uncommon ask in the movie business. Although, it's often not a weapon - but a real "something else," like a real Simon game instead of the cheap new ones. Or the original Disney knick knacks from the 50's and 60's. Whole streets of stores selling that stuff here in "Hollywood" (SoCal).

My theory is that someone, somewhere, couldn't resist bringing real ammo to that gun, to see how it really shot - probably in the middle of the night, maybe at rabbits. No one would think a thing about hearing shots on a movie set and half of New Mexico does it anyway (shoots at night). It's fun and entertaining (to them). Someone forgot to unload (fell asleep?) Armourer doesn't know her job, is highly nervous on first day (especially as a scab) and the AD does something he's not supposed to do (hands the gun to the actor) and the actor then disobeys the union gun handling rules because he hasn't obeyed them in the past and it's been fine.

My speculation, anyway.

 

[MimosaMornings]

What was the deal with the rooms?
Santa Fe rooms can be pricier than Albuquerque, there are usually some less expensive options around Meow Wolf.

 

[whitelilac]

The allegations about previous mishaps on set were apparently made by an anonymous employee: unless someone has confirmed those comments, I don't think they can be taken as gospel truth yet.

I don't think the comments were rumor. There's even a copy of the complaint text message to the production manager.

"...at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set."

"Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times."

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

 

[mickey2942]

It would be very poor taste, INMO, to complete this film, given that the subject matter is about killing a person in an accidental shooting.

What we know about 'Rust,' Alec Baldwin film that resulted in fatal shooting

 

[Gardenista]

Here it is

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

 

[whitelilac]

Here it is

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

Dear Lord...
from the linked article :
"There's also this ... one source who was on set and familiar with the goings-on of the crew tells us that when cops showed up, they found live ammo and blanks were being stored in the same area -- another possible explanation for how an actual bullet slipped got in the gun."

 

[Cryptic]

Thank you.
Another question: The armorer removed a "spent casing" from the gun before giving the gun to the police.
Since I know nothing about guns, is a "spent casing" the remains after a bullet is fired? i.e. from only a bullet and not a "blank"?

I think some of the confusion is that there are several different terms for the same objects. Here are some general definitions that may help:

- Bullet: Technically, the projectile that was fired out of the gun in the accident.

Casing: A metal cylinder that actually hold the propellant or "gun powder". Casing are struck by the firing pin of a weapon. The striking of the firing pin ignites a primer- which then ignites the the rest of the powder charge.

The bullet is mounted on the casing and is then propelled down the barrel. All of this, of course, happens very quickly.

Round: Common term used to describe the casing plus the bullet. As the bullet is mounted to the casing, it is really one object consisting of two parts (casing and bullet)


Armorer removing the casing: When the armorer removed the "spent casing", she opened the cylinder of the revolver and either using her nail or a plunger type mechanism, took the casing out of the weapon.

As a side note, semi automatic pistols will eject the casing well, "automatically" once the gun is fired. A new "round" is then auto inserted into the chamber. But.... revolvers are based on earlier technology and ejecting the casing needs to be done manually.

The size of the casing varies on the calibre of the bullet. A .45 is a large bullet and the casing would probably be the size of a woman's thumb down to the knuckle.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What was the deal with the rooms?
Santa Fe rooms can be pricier than Albuquerque, there are usually some less expensive options around Meow Wolf.

Where is Meow Wolf? Is it close to the set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch?

 

[MimosaMornings]

Where is Meow Wolf? Is it close to the set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch?

About 13 miles away. According to google maps it’s a 25 minute drive.

The closest hotel appears to be 9 miles away.

The set was approximately 19-20 miles from the center of Santa Fe. I don’t think there are hotels between Albuquerque and Santa Fe. Maybe a motor court or older inn.

I suspect they picked Albuquerque for a greater and cheaper selection of chain type hotels versus some of the resort high end accommodations in the middle of Santa Fe.
JMO

Where was Alec Baldwin's movie 'Rust' being filmed in New Mexico?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Here it is

Gun in Alec Baldwin Accident Was Also Used Off-Set, Recreationally

That's what I suspected. Target shooting with prop guns should never have been allowed. JMO.