All Sauvie Island Searches

[Kat010]

Heres a closer view of the area... If you go in at ground level, where it branches off. Its really erie.. The little path leads right to the water...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...788912,-122.798814&spn=0.000685,0.002583&z=19

Excellent job, thank you so much! I was able to explore the whole area.

 

[32beatspersecond]

There is a RSO with a registered living address at Kadows marina in a houseboat in the caterpillar island cove. It is a fishing spot with access to boats and lies just over the border in vancouver. Just another option to look at. he is the only one I could find in that area that could pull kyron out of county jurisdiction and complicate the search. I don't want to post too much...the info is readily accessible if your willing to look for it.

 

[gliving]

There is a RSO with a registered living address at Kadows marina in a houseboat in the caterpillar island cove. It is a fishing spot with access to boats and lies just over the border in vancouver. Just another option to look at. he is the only one I could find in that area that could pull kyron out of county jurisdiction and complicate the search. I don't want to post too much...the info is readily accessible if your willing to look for it.

There's this guy too:

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/print_story.php?story_id=128528853630091500

 

[ami]

Or for inanimate evidence, such as clothing, shoes or glasses that may have been associated with Kyron.

Keep in mind that even the best trained dogs only understand around 400 words; that means that handlers try to simplify their use of language in training cues.

That remark was not intended to carry any further than the dog's ears.

Too bad the reporter didn't learn more about SAR dogs before reporting in such a lurid fashion.

GD, what you wrote makes complete sense. I remember you (or someone else familiar with SAR dogs) said that this type of example was one reason family members were generally not allowed on searches, that some of the commands were gruesome sounding and could be misinterpreted by loved ones.

So as I understand what you're saying, the "find bones" command could be a range of things specific to finding evidence and not just literally finding bones.

That makes me so angry. The dog handler couldn't have helped but do his job - and a hard, heartbreaking job besides - only to have his words used as a flash headline.

 

[Myingan]

So hard to believe they printed this statement.....that broke my heart. Even if the parents know this deep down it does nothing but pierce their hearts to hear it worded this way. Such a shame.:twocents:

I also told myself that maybe they were actually hunting evidence that could have been tossed out driving by...I guess that is how I deal with it by hoping it is something like that.

I wonder if they didn't mis-hear this & ran with it. "Phones & Bones" sound a lot alike to me!

 

[Mellen]

Please excuse me if this location that LE is concentrating on has already been posted. There is a map on the link underlined. Why would they be concentrating on that area????


The searchers came from multiple agencies and nonprofit groups from Clark County to Marion and Yamhill counties.

The effort focused on certain areas, including the central part of the island, west of Northwest Reeder Road. No divers were used and buildings were not searched, Lindstrand said. Mainly, crews covered grasslands and areas thick with vegetation, such as blackberry bushes.



http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/multnomah_county_plans_another.html

I think because water levels are lower and that part of the island is now more accessible/searchable than it was in June.

 

[Billylee]

Something just occurred to me, as I'm VERY familiar with the blackberries. We just had someone remove some along our creek with a tractor, 20 ft. high and 15 ft. wide. When we tried to do it ourselves, the best way was a big long machette type thing. But anyway, what occurred to me, is not only would you have scratches yourself if you tried to plant something within the berries, you would rip the sh**t out of whatever you were trying to bury in there and basically, it would almost be impossible to try to do such a thing with anything large, because whatever you were trying to bury would be stuck one way or another. So if they're looking at blackberry bushes, my guess is it's not for a body, but maybe one of the bat phones. Or a piece of clothing ripped off maybe, but not a body. JMO

 

[miabellamoure]

Something just occurred to me, as I'm VERY familiar with the blackberries. We just had someone remove some along our creek with a tractor, 20 ft. high and 15 ft. wide. When we tried to do it ourselves, the best way was a big long machette type thing. But anyway, what occurred to me, is not only would you have scratches yourself if you tried to plant something within the berries, you would rip the sh**t out of whatever you were trying to bury in there and basically, it would almost be impossible to try to do such a thing with anything large, because whatever you were trying to bury would be stuck one way or another. So if they're looking at blackberry bushes, my guess is it's not for a body, but maybe one of the bat phones. Or a piece of clothing ripped off maybe, but not a body. JMO

Or Kyron's eyeglasses...

 

[Billylee]

His glasses, yes those could be tossed into a berry patch and "maybe" not catch. But why would they be looking for just Kyron's glasses? Do we maybe have a witness who actually thought they saw Kyron without his glasses on that day? I don't know why else they'd be looking for them.

 

[chasing.halos]

Something just occurred to me, as I'm VERY familiar with the blackberries. We just had someone remove some along our creek with a tractor, 20 ft. high and 15 ft. wide. When we tried to do it ourselves, the best way was a big long machette type thing. But anyway, what occurred to me, is not only would you have scratches yourself if you tried to plant something within the berries, you would rip the sh**t out of whatever you were trying to bury in there and basically, it would almost be impossible to try to do such a thing with anything large, because whatever you were trying to bury would be stuck one way or another. So if they're looking at blackberry bushes, my guess is it's not for a body, but maybe one of the bat phones. Or a piece of clothing ripped off maybe, but not a body. JMO

Unless something or a body was thrown. But you are right, those bushes grow huge in Oregon.

 

[ami]

His glasses, yes those could be tossed into a berry patch and "maybe" not catch. But why would they be looking for just Kyron's glasses? Do we maybe have a witness who actually thought they saw Kyron without his glasses on that day? I don't know why else they'd be looking for them.

Just as a guess, because they would be an example of a tangible piece of evidence that can be connected to Kyron that wouldn't disintegrate with weathering, might create a 'flash' that could be seen from a distance, are identifiable, etc etc etc. Sadly, Kyron wouldn't have had to voluntarily take them off in front of others for them to be on SI.

[wanted to add that I haven't heard of any specific search for glasses, I was just guessing as to why a previous poster might have thought they would be an item of interest in the searches....]

 

[Billylee]

Just as a guess, because they would be an example of a tangible piece of evidence that can be connected to Kyron that wouldn't disintegrate with weathering, might create a 'flash' that could be seen from a distance, are identifiable, etc etc etc. Sadly, Kyron wouldn't have had to voluntarily take them off in front of others for them to be on SI.

[wanted to add that I haven't heard of any specific search for glasses, I was just guessing as to why a previous poster might have thought they would be an item of interest in the searches....]

Sorry, I didn't phrase myself right, I meant why would they be looking into blackberry bushes for "just" his glasses. If they've been instructed to look into the blackberry bushes, I don't think it's for a body. I think it's for some other type of evidence. The bat phones would be a good example because they are basically smooth and would fall beneath the blackberries without catching. So could a knife, or other weapon of some sort, but anything that could be poked by the berries would catch.

 

[LindseyLou]

Something just occurred to me, as I'm VERY familiar with the blackberries. We just had someone remove some along our creek with a tractor, 20 ft. high and 15 ft. wide. When we tried to do it ourselves, the best way was a big long machette type thing. But anyway, what occurred to me, is not only would you have scratches yourself if you tried to plant something within the berries, you would rip the sh**t out of whatever you were trying to bury in there and basically, it would almost be impossible to try to do such a thing with anything large, because whatever you were trying to bury would be stuck one way or another. So if they're looking at blackberry bushes, my guess is it's not for a body, but maybe one of the bat phones. Or a piece of clothing ripped off maybe, but not a body. JMO

I was wondering about that already - anything big (like a body) or clothing that you tried to throw into them would basically stay on the surface since the bushes are so thick.

I think their best bet at finding something would be checking thick grassy areas and areas where there's water or pipes. If this is something she did plan in advance as part of a CSI type egotistical thing, then she likely had good hiding places planned.

 

[ami]

Sorry, I didn't phrase myself right, I meant why would they be looking into blackberry bushes for "just" his glasses. If they've been instructed to look into the blackberry bushes, I don't think it's for a body. I think it's for some other type of evidence. The bat phones would be a good example because they are basically smooth and would fall beneath the blackberries without catching. So could a knife, or other weapon of some sort, but anything that could be poked by the berries would catch.

Ah, I get it, sorry! Long day at work!!

 

[miabellamoure]

Sorry, I didn't phrase myself right, I meant why would they be looking into blackberry bushes for "just" his glasses. If they've been instructed to look into the blackberry bushes, I don't think it's for a body. I think it's for some other type of evidence. The bat phones would be a good example because they are basically smooth and would fall beneath the blackberries without catching. So could a knife, or other weapon of some sort, but anything that could be poked by the berries would catch.

I should also clarify, too if you mistook my post to mean that SAR would be "just" searching the Blackberry Bushes for Kyron's eyeglasses...I didn't say that.

However with that said...the "denseness" alone of the Blackberry Bush would make an ideal place to hide something...never mind the sharp attack one would incur from just reaching into one to look for something.

If Kyron was wearing his eyeglasses at the time he was murdered it's possible he was disposed of while still wearing them. Which would mean his remains very likely would still be attached to them.

Or if his eyeglasses say came off at the time of his murder, and say were not found until later "after" disposing of his body...then maybe someone took a trip out to the Blackberry Bushes to hide them.

It could be anything that they are searching for but, I have always felt that in the end...Kyron's eyeglasses will be what leads them to his remains.

 

[GrainneDhu]

GD, what you wrote makes complete sense. I remember you (or someone else familiar with SAR dogs) said that this type of example was one reason family members were generally not allowed on searches, that some of the commands were gruesome sounding and could be misinterpreted by loved ones.

So as I understand what you're saying, the "find bones" command could be a range of things specific to finding evidence and not just literally finding bones.

That makes me so angry. The dog handler couldn't have helped but do his job - and a hard, heartbreaking job besides - only to have his words used as a flash headline.

Yes, dogs that are cross trained are usually trained to search for a live human being or for any inanimate object associated with humans, including a human body.

Literally any words can be used as cues/commands for dogs, they don't speak English and they don't know the difference. If you teach your dog to sit when you say "green" and stand when you say "blue," that's what the dog will think those two words mean.

The real problem (as usual) is the human: it's much harder for a human to remember which word to use if they substitute unrelated words. Most handlers have a set of cues or commands that they use in training every dog and it is amazingly difficult to substitute out different words for those commands.

The vast majority of searches take place with no media attention at all and in most places, families are strenuously discouraged from attending. A dog can actually be ruined for searching if they find human remains and a watching human breaks into tears and seems very distressed. SAR dogs don't want to upset humans and they avoid doing so.

There are very good, very valid reasons why LE would prefer families not attend searches. And all those reasons go for the media as well.

 

[Billylee]

Okay, still noodlin' here, posted this in the sauvie timeline thread, but thought I'd bring it here too. Trying to fit Sauvie Island into Terri's reported timeline, this is the only place I can fit it.

Terri arrived at Gym @ 11:39 and it's said she worked out for an hour. So she left Gym at approximately 12:40. The trip from the gym to SI R&R roads is 54 minutes, and back to sheltered nook rd is another 34 minutes. That's a total of l hour and 28 minutes. She said she got home around 1:00 and was posting on FB at 1:21, correct? How do we know that she got home at 1:00, can you post on FB from a laptop on Sauvie Island? Kaine did not get home until what time, sometime after 2:00, correct? So if TH left the gym at 12:40 and drove to where they're searching at SI she would have arrived there at approx. 1:30, did whatever, and she would be home by 2:05. And the gym timeline says "about an hour" so it could have maybe been even less than that. Anyway, this is the only time frame I can fit the SI locations into her day. Did I do the math right?

As you can see I know nothing about laptops or posting on FB. LOL

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...32,-122.818565&spn=0.159477,0.363579&t=h&z=12

 

[Aedrys]

Okay, still noodlin' here, posted this in the sauvie timeline thread, but thought I'd bring it here too. Trying to fit Sauvie Island into Terri's reported timeline, this is the only place I can fit it.

Terri arrived at Gym @ 11:39 and it's said she worked out for an hour. So she left Gym at approximately 12:40. The trip from the gym to SI R&R roads is 54 minutes, and back to sheltered nook rd is another 34 minutes. That's a total of l hour and 28 minutes. She said she got home around 1:00 and was posting on FB at 1:21, correct? How do we know that she got home at 1:00, can you post on FB from a laptop on Sauvie Island? Kaine did not get home until what time, sometime after 2:00, correct? So if TH left the gym at 12:40 and drove to where they're searching at SI she would have arrived there at approx. 1:30, did whatever, and she would be home by 2:05. And the gym timeline says "about an hour" so it could have maybe been even less than that. Anyway, this is the only time frame I can fit the SI locations into her day. Did I do the math right?

As you can see I know nothing about laptops or posting on FB. LOL

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...32,-122.818565&spn=0.159477,0.363579&t=h&z=12

There's also the time she was supposedly driving a sick baby around. Who knows, maybe at that time she was on Sauvie Island, disposing of Kyron. What you've asked is interesting, though, and I wish I knew the answer to it! I'm curious to see what answer someone comes up with here.

 

[gwenabob]

Okay, still noodlin' here, posted this in the sauvie timeline thread, but thought I'd bring it here too. Trying to fit Sauvie Island into Terri's reported timeline, this is the only place I can fit it.

Terri arrived at Gym @ 11:39 and it's said she worked out for an hour. So she left Gym at approximately 12:40. The trip from the gym to SI R&R roads is 54 minutes, and back to sheltered nook rd is another 34 minutes. That's a total of l hour and 28 minutes. She said she got home around 1:00 and was posting on FB at 1:21, correct? How do we know that she got home at 1:00, can you post on FB from a laptop on Sauvie Island? Kaine did not get home until what time, sometime after 2:00, correct? So if TH left the gym at 12:40 and drove to where they're searching at SI she would have arrived there at approx. 1:30, did whatever, and she would be home by 2:05. And the gym timeline says "about an hour" so it could have maybe been even less than that. Anyway, this is the only time frame I can fit the SI locations into her day. Did I do the math right?

As you can see I know nothing about laptops or posting on FB. LOL

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...32,-122.818565&spn=0.159477,0.363579&t=h&z=12

Do we have proof of the time she arrived at the gym? Or just Terri's say so.

 

[Billylee]

There's also the time she was supposedly driving a sick baby around. Who knows, maybe at that time she was on Sauvie Island, disposing of Kyron. What you've asked is interesting, though, and I wish I knew the answer to it! I'm curious to see what answer someone comes up with here.

We've gone over that time period up in the reference thread under Sauvie Island timeline and we can't seem to make it work mileage/time wise. Check it out.