All Sauvie Island Searches

[AZlawyer]

Debs, we are trying to figure out why LE is searching SI at Reeder and Retenaar Rds. None of us who've tried can fit TH according to her reported timeline as being there within her 90 minute unaccounted for time. So I am trying to figure out if she could be lying about what time she got home and if she can post to facebook from her laptop from anywhere else besides her home. Because, if that is impossible, then it appears LE is looking for an accomplice to have been there, not TH.
Sauvie Island Timeline Info - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Or a handoff from TH to an accomplice at a halfway point....

 

[Aedrys]

I just read it and deleted my post. Sorry about that. I hadn't realized a link was posted before I posted my response. I still think she could have driven like a speed demon and made it. Those timings are based on people going the speed limit, or even slower. A lot of times I make it to places faster than the google map suggests. I'd love to know if it's faster based on how fast the person is going above the speed limit or if there are obstructions like construction that would prevent that.

Also, was what you were talking about a one way trip, or was that round trip? I didn't even think about that, and I apologize if I misinterpreted what I read. I have a sinus headache that is very much distracting me today.

LE knows far more than we do. I'm not ruling out another participant, but I'm not ruling out that she couldn't have done this by herself either. Interesting discussion, though.

One more thing I wanted to add was that Google maps and most other map search engines can suggest the most convoluted ways to get someplace. They don't always come up with the shortest and most convenient routes. Being a local, she probably knows about shortcuts that won't come up on Google Maps or any map engine. So if that's taken into account, then the timeline could possibly work, and she could have got to Sauvie Island and disposed of Kyron in that time frame. It also depends, like you said, on what actual time she was at the gym or if she was even at the gym that day.

 

[debs]

Glitch in my genie.....I lost my post. Anyway, I'll try again.

12:40, we can assume is a time that is verified by the gym, given it's specificity. So she leaves the gym, drives to SI with Kyron and the baby, gym bag, computer, assortment of other things. Drives out to SI, to the far end of the island, and either after, or before 1:21 does something to Kyron, and at 1:21, has the wherewithal to post pictures of a child she's done (or will do) something with. She then must drive 35 minutes to get back to her house, which means she would have no more than approx. 5 minutes after posting, in order to get home before 2, like her husband did. By 2 or so when Kaine arrives home, Terri must calm herself down, bring all that stuff into the house, make sure baby K is happliy playing on the floor so that when her dad comes home, he doesn't notice one thing amiss, everything was a normal day, and he spends an hour and a half working, never noticing anything at all.

I don't know how long it takes to get from the gym to the far reaches of the island, but I'll assume it's at least 40 minutes. I don't see where a window of .... minutes really .... is possible.

 

[passionflower]

Maybe she was secure in the knowledge that what was done was done, she hadn't left any incriminating evidence or anything that would lead back to her (or so she thought), and she believe wholeheartedly that she wasn't going to get caught. That would make her calm, I'm sure.

or nerve pills....alcohol calms also

 

[Jade2010]

I just read it and deleted my post. Sorry about that. I hadn't realized a link was posted before I posted my response. I still think she could have driven like a speed demon and made it. Those timings are based on people going the speed limit, or even slower. A lot of times I make it to places faster than the google map suggests. I'd love to know if it's faster based on how fast the person is going above the speed limit or if there are obstructions like construction that would prevent that.

For someone who planned ever detail, from special attire to dispose a child in brush so as not to get scratches, carrying a laptop and post on Facebook, and much much more, would she throw all that away by driving like a speed demon at the risk of getting caught by the police or pissing off some driver (who would then remember her surely) because she's speeding like a lunatic?

 

[Skully]

At 12:40 or so she was done with the gym. At around 2, her husband came home and reported baby happy and content playing with her toys, wife on her computer nothing amiss. He went and made himself a sandwich and did work on his computer.

I'm not doing anything but trying to get into the mindset of someone doing these things and being able to be calm, have a calm baby, and never alert her husband.

I'm not saying it's impossible. Just noodlin' how she could be using her laptop down on SI, and drive the approx. 35 minutes back to the house in order to calm herself and the baby down enough to not throw out some major hink vibes to Kaine.

Debs,

I agree.... I can't wrap my mind around this to make it pan out. I have to keep reminding myself she has a small baby with her as she does all of these things. The one big thing I can't see is if she did kill Kyron, where does this happen? in front of the baby? if so, did she put him back in the truck, or was this outside of the truck? because, where is the evidence that he was either hit hard enough that he died, in or out of the truck, there would have to be blood, something, and now she has to get rid of a body. Even if it was a planed hit on him, I just can't see how she could do this in cold blood and with her baby on board. I know there have been woman, Diane Downs, (spelling) and Susan Smith, who did kill there children, but I just don't see this. I ran across a case someone sent me, the POI failed two polys and he was innocent, it was the neighbor that killed his wife. But he failed the polys. So IDK maybe she was hiding something else and that is why she failed them. I am rambling now, so I will stop.

 

[tragco]

Glitch in my genie.....I lost my post. Anyway, I'll try again.

12:40, we can assume is a time that is verified by the gym, given it's specificity. So she leaves the gym, drives to SI with Kyron and the baby, gym bag, computer, assortment of other things. Drives out to SI, to the far end of the island, and either after, or before 1:21 does something to Kyron, and at 1:21, has the wherewithal to post pictures of a child she's done (or will do) something with. She then must drive 35 minutes to get back to her house, which means she would have no more than approx. 5 minutes after posting, in order to get home before 2, like her husband did. By 2 or so when Kaine arrives home, Terri must calm herself down, bring all that stuff into the house, make sure baby K is happliy playing on the floor so that when her dad comes home, he doesn't notice one thing amiss, everything was a normal day, and he spends an hour and a half working, never noticing anything at all.

I don't know how long it takes to get from the gym to the far reaches of the island, but I'll assume it's at least 40 minutes. I don't see where a window of .... minutes really .... is possible.

I am wondering more about the 10am last sighting at Fred Myers (please all correct me if I am wrong on that) to Sauvie and then to the gym. 10am to 11:40 am. Wouldn't that be possible? That's where I always thought the timeline was tight but possibly something could be done. I don't think she had time after the gym.

Her facebook entries if made at home are able to be accounted for. She has her own IP router address (if she has a router), and her computer has a specific MAC address. Subpoenas can find that. True, there are ways to disguise your MAC address and such but that only proves where you AREN'T. She wanted to prove where she WAS, right?

An aircard can be just as good as a cellphone for showing where you are. You could buy a computer with cash, purchase an aircard anonymously and then post on Facebook but it would be immediately apparent you were not at home.

 

[Jo in Calif]

If in fact Terri was the one that did something with Kyron. If it happened between the 2nd FM and she did in fact drive to Sauvie Island to dispose of Kyron, she would know how long the trip took, correct?
It was mentioned that she said she started driving the baby around at 10:10, if this came from Terri she could have shaved 25 to 30 minutes off the time line, if she left the 2nd FM at 9:45ish and headed to SI, this would make it closer to 2 hrs un accounted for.
Kaine and Desiree stated that she complained her phone was pinging in places she was not.
If she did leave the 2nd FM around 9:45 her cell phone would not be pinging in that area at 10:10 if she was headed to Sauvie Island, correct?

 

[Tink56]

If in fact Terri was the one that did something with Kyron. If it happened between the 2nd FM and she did in fact drive to Sauvie Island to dispose of Kyron, she would know how long the trip took, correct?
It was mentioned that she said she started driving the baby around at 10:10, if this came from Terri she could have shaved 25 to 30 minutes off the time line, if she left the 2nd FM at 9:45ish and headed to SI, this would make it closer to 2 hrs un accounted for.
Kaine and Desiree stated that she complained her phone was pinging in places she was not.
If she did leave the 2nd FM around 9:45 her cell phone would not be pinging in that area at 10:10 if she was headed to Sauvie Island, correct?

I think TH did not correctly report the time she life the second FM, as Andrea Leckey (GJ testimony about conversation with TH at the FM) said that she, Andrea, finished shopping, checked out, and was at another shopping area where she went to bookstore arriving before it opened at 10:00 A.M.

I think TH would have had at least 2 hours unaccounted for. BTW, I do remember hearing/reading somewhere that TH did not spend an hour at the gym. IIRC it was more like 15-20 minutes. Does anyone else remember this?

 

[miabellamoure]

Debs,

I agree.... I can't wrap my mind around this to make it pan out. I have to keep reminding myself she has a small baby with her as she does all of these things. The one big thing I can't see is if she did kill Kyron, where does this happen? in front of the baby? if so, did she put him back in the truck, or was this outside of the truck? because, where is the evidence that he was either hit hard enough that he died, in or out of the truck, there would have to be blood, something, and now she has to get rid of a body. Even if it was a planed hit on him, I just can't see how she could do this in cold blood and with her baby on board. I know there have been woman, Diane Downs, (spelling) and Susan Smith, who did kill there children, but I just don't see this. I ran across a case someone sent me, the POI failed two polys and he was innocent, it was the neighbor that killed his wife. But he failed the polys. So IDK maybe she was hiding something else and that is why she failed them. I am rambling now, so I will stop.

bbm

Suffocation doesn't usually result in trace blood evidence...no?

The reason you can't imagine Terri to commit such a crime in front of Baby K is because like most of us...you are normal.

 

[Billylee]

I am wondering more about the 10am last sighting at Fred Myers (please all correct me if I am wrong on that) to Sauvie and then to the gym. 10am to 11:40 am. Wouldn't that be possible? That's where I always thought the timeline was tight but possibly something could be done. I don't think she had time after the gym.

Her facebook entries if made at home are able to be accounted for. She has her own IP router address (if she has a router), and her computer has a specific MAC address. Subpoenas can find that. True, there are ways to disguise your MAC address and such but that only proves where you AREN'T. She wanted to prove where she WAS, right?

An aircard can be just as good as a cellphone for showing where you are. You could buy a computer with cash, purchase an aircard anonymously and then post on Facebook but it would be immediately apparent you were not at home.

I think you may have something. It's only an 8 min trip from the 1st FM to the 2nd. So she could have been arrived there at 9:25. Maybe she saw Leckey at 9:35 and left FM at 9:40 instead of 10:00 a.m. It's a 54 minute trip to the Sauive location they're searching. That would put her there at 10:35 or so. Then it's a 58 minute trip back to the gym and now it's 11:33.

So, I guess that's possible, somebody check my math please, if we don't have a for sure on what time she left FM.

I still see though that this leaves very little time to do anything on Sauvie, so unless it was a hand off it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And that makes no sense to me either, because there would have been much easier places to do a hand off.

LOL this really does give me headache, I'm glad I'm not a detective!

 

[nosysw]

Do we know she had the baby with her this whole time? I don't remember (and that's not sayin' much cause I don't remember what I had for lunch) this ever being confirmed except by the lady that saw her in the 2nd FM...So the hand off could have been of the baby...or both...or neither, of course...Also, can someone provide the link for KH getting home and TH on the laptop...(sorry- not so good at searching back)...Just trying to get a feel for how much interaction they really had vis a vis her not setting off his hinky meter (i.e. focused on laptop, not really looking up, avoidance of eye contact, how perceptive is he really?)

 

[MarieFaith]

I think TH did not correctly report the time she life the second FM, as Andrea Leckey (GJ testimony about conversation with TH at the FM) said that she, Andrea, finished shopping, checked out, and was at another shopping area where she went to bookstore arriving before it opened at 10:00 A.M.

I think TH would have had at least 2 hours unaccounted for. BTW, I do remember hearing/reading somewhere that TH did not spend an hour at the gym. IIRC it was more like 15-20 minutes. Does anyone else remember this?

Yes, I definitely remember reading that her time at the gym was more like 15-20 minutes. I haven't said anything about it because I have no idea where I read it and I'm not the sleuth most people here are. But I do remember that.

Anyway, I'm not aware that there is any verification of her gym time, whatever it was, that's been made public. If I"m wrong, then surely someone on this site will point that out. But there's a lot of energy on this thread going into figuring out what she would have had time for, and as far as I can tell, it's all based on what Terri said in her emails.

I know her appearance at the second FM is verified because of the person she talked to, but even the time of that is not rock solid, as far as I know. Didn't the other person give a 20-30 minute window in which that conversation could have taken place?

 

[SacreBleu]

I'm going to paraphrase here something I posted in the SI Time Line Thread...and add to it.

Suppose Terri passed her phone and Kyron to an accomplice (hired gun) after leaving the school. Terri does her FM thing, has time to kill before meeting up with accomplice to retrieve phone and make pay-off. Gee, I wonder what DeDe is doing? Hey, Dede, want to play hookie for awhile? Dede needs to get back to work. Time for a workout before I meet back up with accomplice. Goes to gym. Leaves gym, makes meet-up, goes home. Logs onto Facebook.....

So, there IS no SI time line for Terri, because she was never there.

 

[SacreBleu]

Yes, I definitely remember reading that her time at the gym was more like 15-20 minutes. I haven't said anything about it because I have no idea where I read it and I'm not the sleuth most people here are. But I do remember that.

Anyway, I'm not aware that there is any verification of her gym time, whatever it was, that's been made public. If I"m wrong, then surely someone on this site will point that out. But there's a lot of energy on this thread going into figuring out what she would have had time for, and as far as I can tell, it's all based on what Terri said in her emails.

I know her appearance at the second FM is verified because of the person she talked to, but even the time of that is not rock solid, as far as I know. Didn't the other person give a 20-30 minute window in which that conversation could have taken place?

Of course, if this is true, and/or she left FM#2 20-30 minutes earlier than 10:10, forget what I just posted!!

I'm conflicted now.... huh! Story of this case, eh?

 

[txsvicki]

I'm going to paraphrase here something I posted in the SI Time Line Thread...and add to it.

Suppose Terri passed her phone and Kyron to an accomplice (hired gun) after leaving the school. Terri does her FM thing, has time to kill before meeting up with accomplice to retrieve phone and make pay-off. Gee, I wonder what DeDe is doing? Hey, Dede, want to play hookie for awhile? Dede needs to get back to work. Time for a workout before I meet back up with accomplice. Goes to gym. Leaves gym, makes meet-up, goes home. Logs onto Facebook.....

So, there IS no SI time line for Terri, because she was never there.

If that happened, would the accomplice and the phone have driven past Sauvie Island since there was a cell phone ping in the area? Where would the accomplice have taken Kyron and also prevent the cell phone from pinging if going past that certain road.

 

[SacreBleu]

If that happened, would the accomplice and the phone have driven past Sauvie Island since there was a cell phone ping in the area? Where would the accomplice have taken Kyron and also prevent the cell phone from pinging if going past that certain road.

I am supposing LE can triangulate the ping, hence the search north of the SI school.

Accomplice wanted something to guarantee they get their $. TMH offers up her cell - it goes where she does not want to be; accomplice has proof of contact with TMH should she not want to pay.

I cannot say when TMH would have met w/accomplice to exchange phone for cash. There certainly would have been enough time between FM#2 and gym if TMH and Dede never met up. Perhaps it is not only the SI cell ping, but other pings that do not match up with Terri's alibi. That is the frustration of this case, we do not know. I don't mind being frustrated if it helps to bring the perp to justice.

I don't know who the perp is. I can only surmise what may have happened. I may be wrong.

 

[tragco]

I think you may have something. It's only an 8 min trip from the 1st FM to the 2nd. So she could have been arrived there at 9:25. Maybe she saw Leckey at 9:35 and left FM at 9:40 instead of 10:00 a.m. It's a 54 minute trip to the Sauive location they're searching. That would put her there at 10:35 or so. Then it's a 58 minute trip back to the gym and now it's 11:33.

So, I guess that's possible, somebody check my math please, if we don't have a for sure on what time she left FM.

I still see though that this leaves very little time to do anything on Sauvie, so unless it was a hand off it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And that makes no sense to me either, because there would have been much easier places to do a hand off.

LOL this really does give me headache, I'm glad I'm not a detective!

It gives me one too! The timeline is sooo tight, well at least it seems so from the information we have. If Terri did it, she either had to have had an accomplice or lots of planning ahead to do whatever in 10 or so minutes.

I really wish I could see her cell pings from the week or two prior compared to the day of. I want to know if she was out there on Sauvie for a long bit of time beforehand, an hour or so, KWIM?

 

[BeanE]

I think you may have something. It's only an 8 min trip from the 1st FM to the 2nd. So she could have been arrived there at 9:25. Maybe she saw Leckey at 9:35 and left FM at 9:40 instead of 10:00 a.m. It's a 54 minute trip to the Sauive location they're searching. That would put her there at 10:35 or so. Then it's a 58 minute trip back to the gym and now it's 11:33.

So, I guess that's possible, somebody check my math please, if we don't have a for sure on what time she left FM.

I still see though that this leaves very little time to do anything on Sauvie, so unless it was a hand off it just doesn't make a lot of sense. And that makes no sense to me either, because there would have been much easier places to do a hand off.

LOL this really does give me headache, I'm glad I'm not a detective!

Except LE is looking for her at the 2nd FM at 10:00. I don't think they would be if she left as early as 9:40.

lol I have to keep putting it aside too. Getting major headaches from it. But LE is thinking something here. We just have to figure out what they're thinking, where they're fitting Sauvie in.

Maybe we should just call them and ask

 

[SacreBleu]

Maybe we should just call them and ask

Mama always said, "Don't mess with the little guy, go to to the top!"