All Texas Equusearch-Related Filings #1

[logicalgirl]

Interesting comments from Hornsby, aren't they? Wonder if he is trying to sound sympathetic to the defense side for a particular reason? Wonder if he is considering joining the defense team at some point - if they are ever in need of another lawyer?

Well we know two things about Richard, he thinks Baez is lesser than less, and he's a defense lawyer. And third - he loves the camera. Maybe that's enough.

 

[Khaki_Pants]

I haven't read the last few pages of this thread, but my question is... Did the donations to Equesearch thread get moved into this thread? I cannot find it. I wanted to keep up on it. Of course, I am daft at finding things, but I really can't, lol!

Thanks in advance.
~Khaki

 

[nums24]

Casey Anthony: Did judge give defense a big victory on Texas EquuSearch records?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/en...-big-victory-on-texas-equusearch-records.html

<snipped>

The volunteers are central to the defense team’s efforts to raise reasonable doubt about who dumped the toddler’s remains, said Orlando attorney Richard Hornsby, who offers analysis for WESH.

“The jury is going to consider that for a long, long time,” Hornsby told Kealing. “If they can’t determine that she placed the body there, they’re going to have a real hard time determining she even killed the child.”

Do you agree? __________________

 

[nums24]

Attorney: Equusearch Docs At Heart Of Casey Case

http://www.wesh.com/r/24664865/detail.html

<snipped>

Hornsby said that critical critical issue is at the heart of why Anthony's defense is entitled to Equusearch records.

"If they can't determine she placed the body there, they're going to have a hard time determining she killed the child," Hornsby said.

Video Report: http://www.wesh.com/video/24665289/detail.html

 

[nums24]

Where is everybody getting this stuff from - we haven't seen the HHJP's order yet have we? Nums24 just posted two articles with RHornsby spouting off like a talking head about how critical these files are to the defense and what happens if the SA can't prove ICA put the body there and the jury will be thinking long and hard about that. And of course I am just fuming:furious:
Grrrrr! I need more information.

Calm Down, it's ok. RH is right, you would not want the case oveturned on appeal because of records being withheld. MN & Tim Miller get to keep the privacy, so they basically won. The State has the forensic botany and entomologists experts, with the other forensic evidence will solidly put Caylee on Suburban while KC was still "missing". Have faith in the State and HH Judge Perry!

 

[nums24]

ThinkTank explained this very well here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5528729&postcount=124"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.08.16 Baez/Cheney Press conference[/ame]

 

[LancelotLink]

I haven't read the last few pages of this thread, but my question is... Did the donations to Equesearch thread get moved into this thread? I cannot find it. I wanted to keep up on it. Of course, I am daft at finding things, but I really can't, lol!

Thanks in advance.
~Khaki

Could it have been deleted? I tried to look it up from my posts, and that post is missing, so...

 

[beach]

Pretty sure my opinion isn't going to be very popular, but here it is anyway.

I watched the WESH video w/ Hornsby's commentary twice. He was just being realistic, imo. He's right - if Judge Perry granted MN's motion to quash and denied the defense the opportunity to view those records, it WOULD become a HUGE appellate issue, post conviction. Who wants that? No one, except the defense, KC and the rest of the Anthony clan.

When he says this issue "is the heart of the defense's case" - it is the exact same reason we've been raising heck about it on here. We all know - goodness, everybody knows! - WHY they want to review all those docs. They have NOTHING ELSE. No other SODDI. The forensics are compelling. 31 days. (Not to mention they are stuck with the Zanny story) This is pretty much their last big roll of the dice. And we all know what they are looking for - that some other dude.

To keep things in perspective, Judge Perry said a month ago that this was going to take place and he specified the conditions. The only thing that seems to differ at all (according to JB & CM's presser), is the location of the inspection. So they get to review, take notes and tab docs. That is it. And Nejame got his bad faith motion on the record. Judge Perry denied it. I betcha MN anticipated that ruling. And, imo, he ruled correctly. In the long run, it is not a loss. The true loss would be if he had denied the defense any latitude to explore, thereby risking an appeal. I agree it 'feels' wrong...unfair. But, it is necessary to protect against an appeal.

Basically all HHJP is allowing is a "look-see". Just because they look and tab, doesn't mean HHJP is gonna grant them permission to investigate them. I expect him to limit the scope of the area (where Caylee's remains were found) quite tightly. Hopefully to the 32 searchers already mentioned. As much as the defense would like it, I don't see a broad brush in Judge Perry's hand.

I will be very anxious the day Judge Perry rules on how broadly he is going to allow the defense to investigate. THAT will be a big deal, imo.

 

[nums24]

Pretty sure my opinion isn't going to be very popular, but here it is anyway.

I watched the WESH video w/ Hornsby's commentary twice. He was just being realistic, imo. He's right - if Judge Perry granted MN's motion to quash and denied the defense the opportunity to view those records, it WOULD become a HUGE appellate issue, post conviction. Who wants that? No one, except the defense, KC and the rest of the Anthony clan.

When he says this issue "is the heart of the defense's case" - it is the exact same reason we've been raising heck about it on here. We all know - goodness, everybody knows! - WHY they want to review all those docs. They have NOTHING ELSE. No other SODDI. The forensics are compelling. 31 days. (Not to mention they are stuck with the Zanny story) This is pretty much their last big roll of the dice. And we all know what they are looking for - that some other dude.

To keep things in perspective, Judge Perry said a month ago that this was going to take place and he specified the conditions. The only thing that seems to differ at all (according to JB & CM's presser), is the location of the inspection. So they get to review, take notes and tab docs. That is it. And Nejame got his bad faith motion on the record. Judge Perry denied it. I betcha MN anticipated that ruling. And, imo, he ruled correctly. In the long run, it is not a loss. The true loss would be if he had denied the defense any latitude to explore, thereby risking an appeal. I agree it 'feels' wrong...unfair. But, it is necessary to protect against an appeal.

Basically all HHJP is allowing is a "look-see". Just because they look and tab, doesn't mean HHJP is gonna grant them permission to investigate them. I expect him to limit the scope of the area (where Caylee's remains were found) quite tightly. Hopefully to the 32 searchers already mentioned. As much as the defense would like it, I don't see a broad brush in Judge Perry's hand.

I will be very anxious the day Judge Perry rules on how broadly he is going to allow the defense to investigate. THAT will be a big deal, imo.

:gold_star: :gold_crown:

Wow, yes, exactly!

 

[chefmom]

I truly believe that the forensics are going to far outshine any SODDI that JB comes up with. IMO, I liken his raising a ruckus over the TES docs to KC's walk down the hall at Universal. They both know/knew that they weren't ACTUALLY going anywhere, but they would be d@mned if they would give in until they just absolutely had to! KWIM?

 

[faefrost]

Calm Down, it's ok. RH is right, you would not want the case oveturned on appeal because of records being withheld. MN & Tim Miller get to keep the privacy, so they basically won. The State has the forensic botany and entomologists experts, with the other forensic evidence will solidly put Caylee on Suburban while KC was still "missing". Have faith in the State and HH Judge Perry!

I suspect that that was truly what MN was anticipating. That is one of the major diferences between what we see in attorneys such as MN (or even AL honestly) and JB. When MN or another similarly experienced attorney files a motion such as this, they are overreaching in the hope that the compromise will be exactly what they really want. MN wants the privacy. He realizes that there is no real chance that the judge would bar the defense completely from the records, so he forms his motion in such a way that the end result will be more or less what he desires. He is able to look at a situation, anticipate the likely outcome and steer his arguments such that he gets there even if the other side is thinking that they won. Whereas JB seems to ask for everything under the sun, with the full expectation that he is going to get it, or even worse is entitled to it. Sort of the difference between a skilled negotiator and a whiny 2 year old or North Korean Ambassador. It's one of those wisdom things that comes from experience and practice, and does not come automatically with a law degree or passing the bar. (don't ask me to explain CM. apparently he has gone out the far side of Wisdom and is heading to new territory.)

 

[nums24]

I suspect that that was truly what MN was anticipating. That is one of the major diferences between what we see in attorneys such as MN (or even AL honestly) and JB. When MN or another similarly experienced attorney files a motion such as this, they are overreaching in the hope that the compromise will be exactly what they really want. MN wants the privacy. He realizes that there is no real chance that the judge would bar the defense completely from the records, so he forms his motion in such a way that the end result will be more or less what he desires. He is able to look at a situation, anticipate the likely outcome and steer his arguments such that he gets there even if the other side is thinking that they won. Whereas JB seems to ask for everything under the sun, with the full expectation that he is going to get it, or even worse is entitled to it. Sort of the difference between a skilled negotiator and a whiny 2 year old or North Korean Ambassador. It's one of those wisdom things that comes from experience and practice, and does not come automatically with a law degree or passing the bar. (don't ask me to explain CM. apparently he has gone out the far side of Wisdom and is heading to new territory.)

I am in total agreement! Brilliant post!

BBM: :floorlaugh: I was thinking a descendant of Fred Flintstone or an ethnic (being PC) Jon Lovitz.

 

[logicalgirl]

Calm Down, it's ok. RH is right, you would not want the case oveturned on appeal because of records being withheld. MN & Tim Miller get to keep the privacy, so they basically won. The State has the forensic botany and entomologists experts, with the other forensic evidence will solidly put Caylee on Suburban while KC was still "missing". Have faith in the State and HH Judge Perry!

LOL - I do have faith but it is the way things are presented in the press - a win for the defense - my blood pressure went zinging up all over again reading those two clips here, but thanks so much for doing that. I know RH is a defense lawyer but is he suggesting ICA killed Caylee, packed her around in the trunk of her car (scusez to anyone with a gentle stomach) then said to "someone" oh ick - this is much too messy for me to handle, please put this garbage bag in the woods over there so I can keep my manicure"? Hello - has he gone completely around the bend or something?

 

[logicalgirl]

I suspect that that was truly what MN was anticipating. That is one of the major diferences between what we see in attorneys such as MN (or even AL honestly) and JB. When MN or another similarly experienced attorney files a motion such as this, they are overreaching in the hope that the compromise will be exactly what they really want. MN wants the privacy. He realizes that there is no real chance that the judge would bar the defense completely from the records, so he forms his motion in such a way that the end result will be more or less what he desires. He is able to look at a situation, anticipate the likely outcome and steer his arguments such that he gets there even if the other side is thinking that they won. Whereas JB seems to ask for everything under the sun, with the full expectation that he is going to get it, or even worse is entitled to it. Sort of the difference between a skilled negotiator and a whiny 2 year old or North Korean Ambassador. It's one of those wisdom things that comes from experience and practice, and does not come automatically with a law degree or passing the bar. (don't ask me to explain CM. apparently he has gone out the far side of Wisdom and is heading to new territory.)

Fantastic post and as far as the new territory - my family calls that senility and swears I'm arriving when I keep swearing at my computer screen!

 

[cyberborg]

Not to forget that if SODDI dumped the body (and not ICA) then ICA still has to explain how Caylee left her care and got into the hands of SODDI. There needs to be a connection.

To me it isn't as simple as the SA needing to prove that ICA dumped the body or not .... all we currently have is Zanny the Nanny as someone who ICA said took Caylee.

Who had access to Caylee and why did ICA feel the need to lie, even after it was discovered Caylee was deceased (so no excuse to protect her).

 

[logicalgirl]

Pretty sure my opinion isn't going to be very popular, but here it is anyway.

I watched the WESH video w/ Hornsby's commentary twice. He was just being realistic, imo. He's right - if Judge Perry granted MN's motion to quash and denied the defense the opportunity to view those records, it WOULD become a HUGE appellate issue, post conviction. Who wants that? No one, except the defense, KC and the rest of the Anthony clan.

When he says this issue "is the heart of the defense's case" - it is the exact same reason we've been raising heck about it on here. We all know - goodness, everybody knows! - WHY they want to review all those docs. They have NOTHING ELSE. No other SODDI. The forensics are compelling. 31 days. (Not to mention they are stuck with the Zanny story) This is pretty much their last big roll of the dice. And we all know what they are looking for - that some other dude.

To keep things in perspective, Judge Perry said a month ago that this was going to take place and he specified the conditions. The only thing that seems to differ at all (according to JB & CM's presser), is the location of the inspection. So they get to review, take notes and tab docs. That is it. And Nejame got his bad faith motion on the record. Judge Perry denied it. I betcha MN anticipated that ruling. And, imo, he ruled correctly. In the long run, it is not a loss. The true loss would be if he had denied the defense any latitude to explore, thereby risking an appeal. I agree it 'feels' wrong...unfair. But, it is necessary to protect against an appeal.

Basically all HHJP is allowing is a "look-see". Just because they look and tab, doesn't mean HHJP is gonna grant them permission to investigate them. I expect him to limit the scope of the area (where Caylee's remains were found) quite tightly. Hopefully to the 32 searchers already mentioned. As much as the defense would like it, I don't see a broad brush in Judge Perry's hand.

I will be very anxious the day Judge Perry rules on how broadly he is going to allow the defense to investigate. THAT will be a big deal, imo.

With all respect - I understand you agree with RH and yak yak, but here's my point. RH was making a big deal about proving ICA put Caylee in the woods, and if SA can't the jury will be thinking long and hard about that. My question is - is he telling me the SA had a witness who absolutely saw Scott Peterson dump his dead wife off of that boat in the bay? What's that? Just the cement in the boat? Kind of like - just like the laundry bag, the duct tape, the garbage bags and even more so - the DNA in the trunk? And let's not forget the 31 days.

So is he saying she won't be found guilty cause she did the dirty work but hired someone to put the body in the woods? Huh?

And yes, I understand the defense is making a big deal about the records cause they have zip - nada - zero.

 

[nums24]

With all respect - I understand you agree with RH and yak yak, but here's my point. RH was making a big deal about proving ICA put Caylee in the woods, and if SA can't the jury will be thinking long and hard about that. My question is - is he telling me the SA had a witness who absolutely saw Scott Peterson dump his dead wife off of that boat in the bay? What's that? Just the cement in the boat? Kind of like - just like the laundry bag, the duct tape, the garbage bags and even more so - the DNA in the trunk? And let's not forget the 31 days.

So is he saying she won't be found guilty cause she did the dirty work but hired someone to put the body in the woods? Huh?

And yes, I understand the defense is making a big deal about the records cause they have zip - nada - zero.

BBM - I think the state can with phone records.

 

[logicalgirl]

BBM - I think the state can with phone records.

Yes, I agree Nums24, and the jury will also be looking at reasonable doubt - there isn't anything reasonable JB can come up with to overturn the SA's evidence.
Honestly, it isn't that I'm worried about a conviction or the strength of the SA's evidence - it is the BS at the pressers, first George and Cindy, the Conway, then Baez and Mason, then of all people RH! I know he is a defense lawyer, but come on!
Just too much twist and shout all at once for me and here it is only Tuesday night. I must stand out on my balcony before I go to bed and see if the moon is full.

 

[faefrost]

With all respect - I understand you agree with RH and yak yak, but here's my point. RH was making a big deal about proving ICA put Caylee in the woods, and if SA can't the jury will be thinking long and hard about that. My question is - is he telling me the SA had a witness who absolutely saw Scott Peterson dump his dead wife off of that boat in the bay? What's that? Just the cement in the boat? Kind of like - just like the laundry bag, the duct tape, the garbage bags and even more so - the DNA in the trunk? And let's not forget the 31 days.

So is he saying she won't be found guilty cause she did the dirty work but hired someone to put the body in the woods? Huh?

And yes, I understand the defense is making a big deal about the records cause they have zip - nada - zero.

No what he is saying is the defense will work to poke holes or raise unconnected or unrelated doubts in the states story. Little unexplained or unexplainable things can sink an otherwise solid murder case. Anybody remember the famous line "If the glove don't fit you must acquit"? It worked in spite of overwhelming DNA evidence and a very clear and believable timeline of the crime. The defense does not have to provide an explanation for the facts or a believable story. They nibble at the edges to generate doubt. So yes their primary modern approach in doing so is sadly to throw anyone and everyone under the bus.

 

[logicalgirl]

No what he is saying is the defense will work to poke holes or raise unconnected or unrelated doubts in the states story. Little unexplained or unexplainable things can sink an otherwise solid murder case. Anybody remember the famous line "If the glove don't fit you must acquit"? It worked in spite of overwhelming DNA evidence and a very clear and believable timeline of the crime. The defense does not have to provide an explanation for the facts or a believable story. They nibble at the edges to generate doubt. So yes their primary modern approach in doing so is sadly to throw anyone and everyone under the bus.

I understand that Faefrost, and yes, the glove not fitting still burns me. Who doesn't know leather that has been wet, then dried, shrinks until you "refit" it! I couldn't believe Marsha and the SA on that one. It was sly no doubt to try it, but what was everyone thinking and doesn't anyone down there launder their kid gloves? Leather shrinks!!! And DNA was so new the explanations of it were mind numbing.
There isn't one fragment of my being that believes JB's mousy little nibbles will overcome the roar of the evidence from the SA. Not for one moment do I doubt it.