All Things Dick Cheney

Buzzm1 said:
Becba, the diameter of 7 1/2 lead shot is .095 inches.

Shot Size 7-1/2 Diameter .095 inches # per ounce 350
Thanks. I was imagining bbs. It makes a difference.

They won't say if Whittington was drinking. The police did not get notified for hours so there was no blood test for alcohol done on Cheney. I think this is why info was delayed. They were giving Cheney time to sober up.
 
calus_3 said:
I don't even know where to start.

First off, you and I would get the same treatment that Cheney got. It was an accident.

I find it laughable that you would even post that someone like you or I in a similar situation would be charged with Attempted MURDER? Was that sarchasm?

It was an accident. If Cheney were loaded and randomly shooting and W died, then it would be something like involuntary manslaughter or similar depending on the jurisdiction. Murder or attempted isn't even in question. Blah, that's laughable.

You guys just can't stand it that you lost. If GWB is such an idiot, what does it say about your candidates that you lost to him? Further that he has been getting it one over on you guys for 6 years now?

I would rather someone say "I hate GWB and will do anything I can and have to do to harm him, including siding with the enemies of our Country".

Cal
What makes you think you would get the same treatment? Just because you stated it? Don't always happen that way Cal.

Reverse the scenario a 78 yr old man shot the VP....holy hell would of been flying!

Can't stand that we lost to GWB ......don't come into the picture. Did you ever think he may of pulled one over on you for 6 yrs now?

Don't even go there about siding with our enemies of the country :sick:
 
Becba said:
Thanks. I was imagining bbs. It makes a difference.

They won't say if Whittington was drinking. The police did not get notified for hours so there was no blood test for alcohol done on Cheney. I think this is why info was delayed. They were giving Cheney time to sober up.

See, this is what confuses me. With POTUS, state and local LE is there in the vacinity. Always. They are part of the security teams! SS and FBI do not handle it all themselves! They can't. Here's my assumption - it is the same exact way for VP, even on a hunting trip. So, what is this that the LE didn't know for hours? There is NO way that this accident happened, ambulance and emergency personnel whisk W off to hospital, and that VP just stays in place and no outside LE is notified that there has been an accidental shooting. Hello! They're all on the same radio channels, etc. What may be the confusion, however, is that the SS and FBI would be the primary investigators. And therefore, they wouldn't be required to "report it to the police" in terms of an investigation. (In fact, the more I think about this, THAT may be the confusion. A delay in "reporting?" Ahhh, they aren't required to report it for an actual investigation, so why would they do so if not required?) Now, if you want to assume that the SS and FBI will do what they can to cover their man, that's up to every individual to decide for themselves, IMO.

And, you can bet that other people have been thoroughly interviewed as witnesses to the day's activities. The drinking, behaviors of those drinking and involved, will all be told at some point. Now, whether all the actual investigative info ever becomes public, I have no idea. But the way leaks occur, some will at some point.

However, the statements (I don't know how they started, though) that SS delayed access to Cheney until the next day - that worries me some, but not necessarily a lot. Anyone read how that started, like who reported the delay? Has it been confirmed by a reputable source?

(And now that I thought through who the primary investigators would be, above, well, that makes more sense now. They didn't have to "report it" to the little LE agency for the official investigation.)
 
cheko1 said:
What makes you think you would get the same treatment? Just because you stated it? Don't always happen that way Cal.

Reverse the scenario a 78 yr old man shot the VP....holy hell would of been flying!

Can't stand that we lost to GWB ......don't come into the picture. Did you ever think he may of pulled one over on you for 6 yrs now?

Don't even go there about siding with our enemies of the country :sick:

No, experience tells me that. Each year, in every State, there are hunting accidents with firearms. Some people are charged because they fired into a moving shrub without verifying what their target was. Others where they accidentally shot a person generally aren't charged. Unless you are saying he shot him on purpose.

Cal
 
DEPUTYDAWG said:
See, this is what confuses me. With POTUS, state and local LE is there in the vacinity. Always. They are part of the security teams! SS and FBI do not handle it all themselves! They can't. Here's my assumption - it is the same exact way for VP, even on a hunting trip. So, what is this that the LE didn't know for hours? There is NO way that this accident happened, ambulance and emergency personnel whisk W off to hospital, and that VP just stays in place and no outside LE is notified that there has been an accidental shooting. Hello! They're all on the same radio channels, etc. What may be the confusion, however, is that the SS and FBI would be the primary investigators. And therefore, they wouldn't be required to "report it to the police" in terms of an investigation. (In fact, the more I think about this, THAT may be the confusion. A delay in "reporting?" Ahhh, they aren't required to report it for an actual investigation, so why would they do so if not required?) Now, if you want to assume that the SS and FBI will do what they can to cover their man, that's up to every individual to decide for themselves, IMO.

And, you can bet that other people have been thoroughly interviewed as witnesses to the day's activities. The drinking, behaviors of those drinking and involved, will all be told at some point. Now, whether all the actual investigative info ever becomes public, I have no idea. But the way leaks occur, some will at some point.

However, the statements (I don't know how they started, though) that SS delayed access to Cheney until the next day - that worries me some, but not necessarily a lot. Anyone read how that started, like who reported the delay? Has it been confirmed by a reputable source?

(And now that I thought through who the primary investigators would be, above, well, that makes more sense now. They didn't have to "report it" to the little LE agency for the official investigation.)
I initially heard that the SS, and local LE talked after the accident, and it was decided at that time, to delay interviewing VP Cheney until the next morning. I know the SS can invoke it's authority, and also know that LE will defer to the SS. The SS will do what needs to be done to protect the reputation of the VP.

This certainly leads to rampant speculation about what the situation was at the time of the accident.
 
DeputyDawg, Hello,

I recall reading that a desicion was made to arrange to talk to the police several hours later. I wish I knew where I read that because it implied that the police had agreed to wait to conduct their investigation.
I do not think the police would come up with the idea of delaying the investigation. The VP shot someone and they say we'll check it out tomorrow? No way. The SS or Cheney's "team" had to be the ones who wanted the delay. Why?
 
Buzzm1 said:
I initially heard that the SS, and local LE talked after the accident, and it was decided at that time, to delay interviewing VP Cheney until the next morning. I know the SS can invoke it's authority, and also know that LE will defer to the SS. The SS will do what needs to be done to protect the reputation of the VP.

This certainly leads to rampant speculation about what the situation was at the time of the accident.

Business as usual, then. And I don't mean that in a negative tone specific to this situation. That's business as usual in their line of work, and has been that way for eons, LOL. And will be in the future. It is what it is.

Speculation, yes. And there's no harm in citizens asking questions. It's just so many take blogger's opinions, etc. as fact. That drives me nuts. :rolleyes:

I need to back outta this one. (But don't slap me if I don't shut up, okay? I'm gonna try. Whenever it becomes political, or looks that way, I need to run.) I'll go back to reading Tom & Katie and what stupid stuff Brit-trash did, LOL.
 
Buzz, I think we both posted the same train of thought! lol But you explained it better.

IMO, if alcohol is involved an accident moves from accident to possible negligence.
Given Cheney is known too be a drinker I believe his security team had protocol already in place in case of this kind of situation. To delay the investigation all they had to do was tell the LE we are busy and will talk to you later. No bac is done. The public can speculate Cheney was drunk but it there is no proof.
 
Becba said:
DeputyDawg, Hello,

I recall reading that a desicion was made to arrange to talk to the police several hours later. I wish I knew where I read that because it implied that the police had agreed to wait to conduct their investigation.
I do not think the police would come up with the idea of delaying the investigation. The VP shot someone and they say we'll check it out tomorrow? No way. The SS or Cheney's "team" had to be the ones who wanted the delay. Why?

Hi Becba!

Oh, I totally agree the police wouldn't come up with the idea to delay an investigation. But, IMHO, it's because SS would be the lead, and little local LE wasn't going to be primary investigators. It's not as though Mayberry RFD is going to be the lead in handling a hunting accident with VP. (No disrespect meant to local LE, some are awesome and some are, not.) Therefore, they could delay access to Cheney. Acceptable, I believe.

The question is whether it was done for alterior motives. I don't know, and most other non-involved parties know, either. Do we know what Cheney did? Did he go to the hospital to visit his friend, etc.? I mean, who knows? We may or may find out soon - lord knows there's enough media wanting the scoop to give to inquiring minds like us! ;)

You all are right, why the delay? I just prefer not to jump to the conclusion that it was done to cover up something improper. Pollyanna, I am, hehe.
 
Buzzm1 said:
SNIP
Seems the doctors should be able to give us a far better estimate than the "between 6 and 200 pellets."

I agree, Buzzm1, that seems like an awfully large range, and really the smallest number is questionable to me.

Surely X-rays would show there were many more than 6! Even I figured that out from the diagrams. No way that large of an area was covered in the density shown by just 6 pellets, especially when they are that small.

This is being down played every which way but loose, but I'm surprised the doctors are going along with it.

Wonder if Faux news will dare to ask the VP about whether he and Mr. Whittington had been drinking?

Yep, the delay in reporting to the citizens of the U.S., to whom he is accountable whether he likes it or not, is the bigger story. One which was created by whoever made the decision so there is really noone else to blame for this backlash.
 
Well the woman that reported this to the press said they all had dinner and went to bed that night after. So there doesn't seem to be a good reason to delay an investigation. Cheneys excuse to date about any delay has been that they wanted to make sure Whittington was getting the best care. That clashes with eating dinner and going to sleep.
 
Reader said:
I agree, Buzzm1, that seems like an awfully large range, and really the smallest number is questionable to me.

Surely X-rays would show there were many more than 6! Even I figured that out from the diagrams. No way that large of an area was covered in the density shown by just 6 pellets, especially when they are that small.

This is being down played every which way but loose, but I'm surprised the doctors are going along with it.

Wonder if Faux news will dare to ask the VP about whether he and Mr. Whittington had been drinking?

Yep, the delay in reporting to the citizens of the U.S., to whom he is accountable whether he likes it or not, is the bigger story. One which was created by whoever made the decision so there is really noone else to blame for this backlash.
They can look at the number of entrance wounds and approximate the number of pellets. If the pellets struck anything hard, they could fragment to some extent.

The additional information on the extent of the injuries lends itself to even more speculation.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljwf22
I have a hunting query, probably off topic, but..if there are so many pellets in a shot, would that make the bird inedible?

I am also glad to see this thread get back to this incident and away from the politcal mocking. There is a political thread for that.
twocents.gif


quote: Cal
Well, not really. I think most hunters try to get most of the shot out and you kind of chew carefully when eating it--I know I do. Swallowing lead probably isn't the best idea, I suppose. Once you dress the bird and take off all the feathres, it is pretty easy to see dig out shot prior to cooking it.

Off topic, but if you haven't ever tried Pheasant...order one for say Christmas and try it. Excellent eating.
After I posted last night, I went to bed and didn't get any further in the thread. I do know from my dad who occasionally went duck hunting, that the object of a great hunter is to shoot slightly ahead of the bird and let them fly into the shot. That way there is less lead to clean out if you do it right. I did go hunting with him on one occasion as a 12 year old girl. I was allowed to take my .22 rifle. I did shoot a rabbit. Guess what, my dad told me that we only shot what we were going to eat, not for the sport of it only. I had to skin and gut that rabbit, then we took him home, and it was prepared and eaten. I learned my lesson. I have been given game, deer and elk, and still have some in my freezer. I have not, however, hunted since that rabbit. Oops, except trying to get a skunk near the chickens and the occasional coyote. I didn't get either one, though, because it was dark and I wasn't sure where the horses were in the pasture.
 
scandi said:
Hi Becba, On Fox this morning they said the shot was about the size of a typed letter 'o'.

What idiot on Fox thought that was a useful analogy? Did he/she specify what FONT that 'o' should be typed in?

o?
o??
o???
o????
 
Cypros said:
What idiot on Fox thought that was a useful analogy? Did he/she specify what FONT that 'o' should be typed in?

o?
o??
o???
o????

It varies based on your political philosophy and how evil you think Cheney is! :D

Cal
 
Cypros said:
What idiot on Fox thought that was a useful analogy? Did he/she specify what FONT that 'o' should be typed in?

o?
o??
o???
o????
LOL!!! I think they meant on a regular typewritter. Or at least that is the pic I had in my head. You know those old things that weren't even electric years ago.
 
calus_3 said:
It varies based on your political philosophy and how evil you think Cheney is! :D

Cal
In that case I need a bigger monitor. J/k:D
 
Becba said:
LOL!!! I think they meant on a regular typewritter. Or at least that is the pic I had in my head. You know those old things that weren't even electric years ago.

I knew the Fox people were behind the times... :angel:
 
Yesterday I heard that the Secret Service were not part of the party there, but were called from somewhere nearby to deal with the situation. Maybe from Corpus Christie - they didn't say.

Did anyone else hear this. The report made me feel that there were no SS on the ranch at the time of the accident. He said today he had a physician's assistant with him and was on a private weekend getaway at a friends house.

I just had to turn on the Olympics! They are now digging this story big time into the ground with the Brett Hume interview of Cheney being shown bit by bit!!!

Scandi

ETA: Also, I don't think who they brought in were regular SS guys. Some elite security men.
 
scandi said:
Yesterday I heard that the Secret Service were not part of the party there, but were called from somewhere nearby to deal with the situation. Maybe from Corpus Christie - they didn't say.

Did anyone else hear this. The report made me feel that there were no SS on the ranch at the time of the accident. He said today he had a physician's assistant with him and was on a private weekend getaway at a friends house.

I just had to turn on the Olympics! They are now digging this story big time into the ground with the Brett Hume interview of Cheney being shown bit by bit!!!

Scandi

ETA: Also, I don't think who they brought in were regular SS guys. Some elite security men.
Scandi, from what I know, the SS would always be with Cheney, no matter where he was, plus there were medical personnel with his group, at the time of the accident.
 

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