All things Joe Paterno

[J. J. in Phila]

Was that from one of the documents, or do we know it from another source? Sorry for being persistent, but I don't recall it, and I want to be sure about our facts.

From the dictaphone of Steve Sloane:

“Oct. 13, 1998. Schreffler, Ralston, Sloane, Gricar. Investigation going to Penn State meeting. Ray. Fran Ganter. Ron Schreffler is taking us to the football building and I will finish this memo, Sue, and either Ray will type something, handwrite something or he’ll tell me to dictate this and I’ll give you the tape when we get back. Thanks.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html

It is Sloane doing the speaking.

 

[Rlaub44]

BBM - There is a tape of a message from Sloane? To Ganim? Is there a link to this? ....sorry if I missed it before....

Steve Sloane, who is considered to be one of Gricar’s only close friends in Centre County, said he kept Gricar’s Dictaphone on his own desk for years after the disappearance. Gricar used it to take notes about cases, which he would later ask a secretary to type into memos, Sloane said.

Sloane told The Patriot-News he had thrown the tape and Dictaphone into a desk with other stuff and forgotten about it until he began to clean for a move.

The hour-long recording is mostly inaudible. However, Sloane’s own voice says this on the tape:

“Oct. 13, 1998. Schreffler, Ralston, Sloane, Gricar. Investigation going to Penn State meeting. Ray. Fran Ganter. Ron Schreffler is taking us to the football building and I will finish this memo, Sue, and either Ray will type something, handwrite something or he’ll tell me to dictate this and I’ll give you the tape when we get back. Thanks.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html

 

[Rlaub44]

From the dictaphone of Steve Sloane:

“Oct. 13, 1998. Schreffler, Ralston, Sloane, Gricar. Investigation going to Penn State meeting. Ray. Fran Ganter. Ron Schreffler is taking us to the football building and I will finish this memo, Sue, and either Ray will type something, handwrite something or he’ll tell me to dictate this and I’ll give you the tape when we get back. Thanks.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/ray_gricar_mystery.html

It is Sloane doing the speaking.

That's what I thought. Sloane was only brought into the Sandusky case if it turns out that this October meeting was regarding Sandusky. That still has not been established, so I would be cautious about claiming that Sloane was involved until we find out more.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Was that from one of the documents, or do we know it from another source? Sorry for being persistent, but I don't recall it, and I want to be sure about our facts.

This might more clearly answer your question:

Those who worked with former Centre Country D.A. Ray Gricar in the 1998 investigation of allegations against Sandusky include assistant prosecutor Steve Sloane (one of Gricar's closest confidants) and now-retired Penn State police Officer Ron Schreffler and now-retired Penn State police Officer Ron Schreffler. Also, Jerry Lauro, the investigator for the state Department of Welfare, did his own parallel investigation, though he was never told of what Sandusky told the boy's mother ("I wish I were dead.") as officers hid in an adjacent bedroom. Sloan and Lauro have spoken with The Patriot-News and talked about why charges were never filed.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/jerry_sandusky_sacbndal_answer.html

BBM

You will note that in the linked article, Sloane was quoted, but about Gricar's lack of savvy with the press. Note that according to that article the is an anonymous source:

A member of law enforcement who was in the room with Gricar when police presented him with the 1998 allegations against Sandusky said Gricar led the investigation.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/former_centre_county_da_ray_g.html

My guess is, it would be Sloane.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That's what I thought. Sloane was only brought into the Sandusky case if it turns out that this October meeting was regarding Sandusky. That still has not been established, so I would be cautious about claiming that Sloane was involved until we find out more.

I think I just posted it.

 

[Rlaub44]

I think I just posted it.

Thanks - I hadn't seen that before.

In the linked article, would an assistant prosecutor be called a "member of Law Enforcement?"

 

[Reader]

Thanks for the information on the Sloane message...I had read that before but thought you were talking about an actual tape recording linked somewhere...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks - I hadn't seen that before.

In the linked article, would an assistant prosecutor be called a "member of Law Enforcement?"

Absolutely. And if you note the article, it is distinguished from the police. You will also note that both Mr. Bosak and I have use the same designation.

Now that refers to some point in 1998 and the only point we are sure of is May 1998, before the decision was made.

 

[Reader]

It might not be related, but the people involved, save Ganter, we all involved in the Sandusky investigation. It was at the football building, so it is very likely football was involved. It was also an "investigation," which is unusual for Gricar. He was not known as an investigating DA.

One of the problems is Ralston's involvement. He was not with the University; he was a State College police officer. When I first read it, I thought is was Harmon; Harmon was chief and it would make sense for him to be involved with policing on campus. Ralston could have been involved if the subject of the meeting (someone other than Sandusky) lived off-campus. It is still a huge coincidence.

BBM - I just double checked and Ralston was the other officer with Schreffler that listened to JS conversations with the victim's mother in 1998.

 

[BigCat]

I've enjoyed reading the discussion on the October meeting. Good job, ladies and gents.

Two possibilities:

A. I think there was a witness to one of the 1998 shower incidents. Ganter? It wasn't rape, and I've heard it was common for people to bring their young male relatives into the showers with them. "Jerry's kids" were also known to use the showers, so Ganter might not have been too shocked. It could have involved the other victim, B. K., or another. unknown, boy.

B. I've heard a rumor that Gricar wouldn't prosecute if Sandusky "got help with the problem." I didn't believe it for months after I heard it. It could be true and Gricar was delivering the message. If there was such a message, that could have been the purpose of the meeting.

Either one of these possibilities has huge implications for the cases against Spanier, Curley, and Schultz.

Respectfully snipped

If Gricar ever intended the message to get to Spanier, Curley, or Schultz, why did he go to an assistant football coach? He's the DA. Perhaps I have an inflated opinion of the position of DA, but couldn't he have sent the message through someone with access to those men?

IMO, the most likely scenario is that Ganter's purpose at the meeting was as Paterno's proxy. Thus, if a message was sent, it was from Gricar to Paterno. I doubt Paterno felt obligated to send that message up the chain to the three stooges.

Again, I've pointed this out before, it's not uncommon for a local law enforcement agency and a college football coaching staff to have a close relationship, particularly in a "college town." Men in these organizations are likely to view university administrators as emasculated wimps. The local cops and the coach staff would prefer to handle matters "in house."

JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've enjoyed reading the discussion on the October meeting. Good job, ladies and gents.

This has been one of most intense and one of the most civil exchanges that I have experienced on the Internet.



Respectfully snipped

If Gricar ever intended the message to get to Spanier, Curley, or Schultz, why did he go to an assistant football coach? He's the DA. Perhaps I have an inflated opinion of the position of DA, but couldn't he have sent the message through someone with access to those men?

IMO, the most likely scenario is that Ganter's purpose at the meeting was as Paterno's proxy. Thus, if a message was sent, it was from Gricar to Paterno. I doubt Paterno felt obligated to send that message up the chain to the three stooges.

Well, with Schreffler there, it would go to Harmon, and presumably to Schultz.

Again, I've pointed this out before, it's not uncommon for a local law enforcement agency and a college football coaching staff to have a close relationship, particularly in a "college town." Men in these organizations are likely to view university administrators as emasculated wimps. The local cops and the coach staff would prefer to handle matters "in house."

JMO

At least 5 years later, that relationship had broken down, if it was there. The Phillips case could have cost Paterno his position in 2003. Interestingly, in that one, Spanier was critical of Paterno, publicly.

"In house," however, might be the key to 1998.

 

[JaimeSommers]

RSBM ...

IMO, the most likely scenario is that Ganter's purpose at the meeting was as Paterno's proxy. Thus, if a message was sent, it was from Gricar to Paterno.

Agree. The more I kick this around, the more certain I am that this meeting was related to Sandusky.

Can we all just meet up at a centrally located bar and map this sucker out? I'll bring the white board and markers. J. J. buys first round.

 

[JaimeSommers]

"That Ganter was there even when Paterno couldn’t be speaks volumes about his contributions to Penn State football and his unflagging devotion to his alma mater -- and Joe Paterno.

For 44 years – and counting – Ganter has been as an integral part of Paterno’s 400-victory achievement as much as anyone, save for Paterno.

[...]

In 1984, Ganter added offensive coordinator to his duties, and he held that title until 1999. In 2000, Ganter was promoted by Paterno to assistant head coach and he maintained his coordinator duties. It was the only time in Paterno’s 45 years that he had someone in that role.

Despite the assistant head coach title, things stayed mostly the same way they had always been. Joe was the boss.

'I don’t think my relationship with him changed no matter what title I had,' Ganter said. 'My relationship with Joe changed drastically from player to coach, but as a coach it never changed. He was always my boss. I was always wary of him and doing the right things, pleasing him and looking for him to say, ‘Good job.’ '

Even as offensive coordinator for so many years, Ganter still ran everything by the head coach.

'Joe always had input,' Ganter said. 'I didn’t call one play that he didn’t OK during the week. I never called a trick play, a fake punt, a fake field goal without running it by him first. Maybe that’s because he was my head coach, too.

'Joe always had his hand on everything that went on. No one ever outworked him, no one ever out-prepared him.'"

http://www.statecollege.com/mobile/...otball-fran-ganter-is-always-a-winner-570836/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only way you can get a drink out of me is to stick your finger down my throat!

RSBM ...
Agree. The more I kick this around, the more certain I am that this meeting was related to Sandusky.

Can we all just meet up at a centrally located bar and map this sucker out? I'll bring the white board and markers. J. J. buys first round.

I think we are mapping it out, and the destination does not look particularly good. I hope we are holding the map upside down.

I'm looking at alumni conversations and they are not prepared for what might be coming out. I am, and I do not like it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'll just add:

On the night Paterno was told he'd never coach another game, the Board of Trustees tried to figure out how to tell him. They though about summoning him to the meeting, but were worried about bringing an 84 year old man to the meeting. They though about sending someone to meet with him, but were worried about getting through the crowd.

The Board decided to do it by phone. They would have a number for him to call. They had to get him the number. They chose Fran Ganter to deliver it.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I think we are mapping it out, and the destination does not look particularly good. I hope we are holding the map upside down.

BBM ... I'm visual. I need a flowchart.

I'm looking at alumni conversations and they are not prepared for what might be coming out. I am, and I do not like it.

Where are these conversations taking place? I'm an alum. I'm beyond ready. What's taking so long? Curley's alleged health issues? Afraid they won't attract a strong presidential applicant pool with the trials front and center? Baldwin?

 

[JaimeSommers]

I'll just add:

On the night Paterno was told he'd never coach another game, the Board of Trustees tried to figure out how to tell him. They though about summoning him to the meeting, but were worried about bringing an 84 year old man to the meeting. They though about sending someone to meet with him, but were worried about getting through the crowd.

The Board decided to do it by phone. They would have a number for him to call. They had to get him the number. They chose Fran Ganter to deliver it.

I was aware of everything but the last sentence. Interesting.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was aware of everything but the last sentence. Interesting.

Here is the account: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ower-struggle-spread-penn-state-state-capital

 

[JaimeSommers]

Here is the account: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ower-struggle-spread-penn-state-state-capital

I was walking through the Nittany Lion Inn lobby on the morning of Saturday, November 12, as Corbett, his wife, and their security detail were checking out at the desk. I will never forget his face. He was positively beaming while everyone around him was shell-shocked -- like the idiot that rolls into a funeral home, yukking it up. I recall thinking what a small human being he was, both literally and figuratively speaking.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was walking through the Nittany Lion Inn lobby on the morning of Saturday, November 12, as Corbett, his wife, and their security detail were checking out at the desk. I will never forget his face. He was positively beaming while everyone around him was shell-shocked -- like the idiot that rolls into a funeral home, yukking it up. I recall thinking what a small human being he was, both literally and figuratively speaking.

Some idiot elsewhere accused me of being "gleeful." I can assure you I was not.

Corbett was still in prosecutor mode, where winning is important. Prosecutors do not have to deal with the fallout of success, unless they make a mistake. Even then, it is difficult.

You do have a PM from me.