Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

[Chablis]

I have a feeling there were very mutual problems between them.I feel the murder for hire plot was boggus and he used that to start a divorce that wasn't appropriate to do at the time.I won't post about this any more.All I can say is recovery is there if they want it if there is a problem.

But is it really bogus if cops come to you and say, Hey, your wife wanted you dead? Is that Kaines fault? I mean if someone said, hey, this person wants you dead, would you just dismiss it, and let me say, I could, if I didn't have a missing child last seen with the person cops told me wanted me dead. So is it really his fault or the people who told him? Seriously, no being combative, I just want to know, I mean is there reason to think cops didnt tell Kaine about a murder plot?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I would love to meet the person who isn't "vindictive" toward the person who they believe is the cause of their child being missing or worse for nearly six months. Vindictive wouldn't even begin to cover it for me.

And obnoxious...just wow. That's a word to describe the belligerent drunk that wrecks your holiday party. Not a grieving father who believes his soon-to-be-ex (thank goodness) wife harmed his son in the vilest of ways.

Rock on Kaine. She's lucky she's dealing with you and DY, not me :furious:

He was very slanderous towards her and it was very obnoxious and very wrong.It did nothing to find this sweet little boy.There is no proof she did anything to little Kyron and he knows that or he would have said it.Again .Back to her drinking.I don't believe Kaine.It's only coming from him.We do need to get back to alcohol topic.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

But is it really bogus if cops come to you and say, Hey, your wife wanted you dead? Is that Kaines fault? I mean if someone said, hey, this person wants you dead, would you just dismiss it, and let me say, I could, if I didn't have a missing child last seen with the person cops told me wanted me dead. So is it really his fault or the people who told him? Seriously, no being combative, I just want to know, I mean is there reason to think cops didnt tell Kaine about a murder plot?

It's apparantly not proven or she would be in jail now and she isn't.I personally do not think any of this has to do with little Kyron missing.What are they doing RIGHT NOW to find little Kyron?That is what matters.Not all this crap.Where is this sweet little boy?It quit being about Kyron a long time ago and that's very sad.

 

[kimmera]

Did Terri go to treatment? Was she known to get long term help for her problem? Do you know how many times the average person with a DUI had probably driven before they are caught? A DUI is a strong indicator that someone has an issue. Its like another case I follow, a Dad didn't have an arrest for about 3 years prior to a bunch for a bunch of drugs and people argue, he didnt touch drugs after an arrest and was so grief stricken he started using again, so thats why hes sitting in prison right now. Terri is described as looking tired all the time. What was she doing that her life was making her looked ragged? We have the husband saying she was drinking, has put it as an allegation in court papers, and when confronted with his allegations, she withdrawls. In top of everything, I think she has a major substance abuse issue, for whatever reasons. jmo

BBM~

Not only do we have the gym friend saying that TH looked a hot mess all of the time, but there is a what looks to be a good size weight gain AFTER she had baby K that would support what KH is saying as well. There are a number of photos of TH when baby K was an infant, and her face, arms and upper body look much thinner than when Kyron went missing. Looking at her face in more recent pics, she has a pretty classic 'booze bloat'. This, although circumstantial, would seem to support what KH is saying, that things seemed to go downhill for her after the birth of the baby.

As far as KH not knowing she was drinking, well, let's just say that alcoholics tend to be masterful at hiding their problem from people. My mother was an alcoholic. In our hearts, we all knew it, but she never admitted it. After she died and we had to go through her stuff and get her house ready for sale, we found a TRUCKLOAD of empty booze bottles hidden all over the house. It was beyond belief really. Not to mention, I have to also wonder if perhaps since all of this has happened, mutual friends may have come forward to confirm that which KH suspected, but didn't actually know. MOO...:twocents:

 

[germaine]

He was very slanderous towards her and it was very obnoxious and very wrong.It did nothing to find this sweet little boy.There is no proof she did anything to little Kyron and he knows that or he would have said it.Again .Back to her drinking.I don't believe Kaine.It's only coming from him.We do need to get back to alcohol topic.

In your opinion it's very wrong. In my opinion it's mild and 1000% justified. And I believe she's a big drinker. I took one look at her in that very first video and saw the telltale signs. I thought she was drinking heavily and/or taking meds WAY before KH said one word about it. Her before and after photos, KH's words, and other things that have been said here and there about her appearance and her demeanor, just confirmed it.

I also think KH didn't want to talk about it before, for obvious reasons. Not the least of which is embarrassment and because he'd kept it from DY. I think at some point he just decided it was better to come clean, even if his credibility and public perception about how he handled the situation took a blow. I keep remember DY's words about how what you do *now* is what makes the difference (total paraphrase). I know she was talking to TH, but I'm wondering if KH didn't make a similar decision at his "crossroads" jmoo

 

[kimmera]

Ok,I'll go here.I will answer this.I feel he has been vindictive and exetremly slandering to her now.It's obnoxious and I don't feel it was about finding little Kyron at all.The focus needs to stay on Kyron.Something is very very wrong here.Nuff said.

BBM~

Well, IANAL, but I am reasonably sure that it is only slander if it is NOT TRUE. And if it really is NOT TRUE, then why in the world wouldn't TH's well-respected attorneys just SAY SO? They never said that it wasn't true! On the flip side, I find it hard to believe that KH's well-respected attorney would make these allegations if there wasn't at least SOME supporting evidence of it. JMO...:twocents:

 

[germaine]

BBM~

Not only do we have the gym friend saying that TH looked a hot mess all of the time, but there is a what looks to be a good size weight gain AFTER she had baby K that would support what KH is saying as well. There are a number of photos of TH when baby K was an infant, and her face, arms and upper body look much thinner than when Kyron went missing. Looking at her face in more recent pics, she has a pretty classic 'booze bloat'. This, although circumstantial, would seem to support what KH is saying, that things seemed to go downhill for her after the birth of the baby.

As far as KH not knowing she was drinking, well, let's just say that alcoholics tend to be masterful at hiding their problem from people. My mother was an alcoholic. In our hearts, we all knew it, but she never admitted it. After she died and we had to go through her stuff and get her house ready for sale, we found a TRUCKLOAD of empty booze bottles hidden all over the house. It was beyond belief really. Not to mention, I have to also wonder if perhaps since all of this has happened, mutual friends may have come forward to confirm that which KH suspected, but didn't actually know. MOO...:twocents:

bbm~

Yeah, that -- "booze bloat". She's wasn't merely overweight, she was bloated, puffy. Classic. And she looks much different now. I'm guessing she's not drinking as much since she's basically a shut-in under the eye of her parents. I don't see them buying her lots of booze, and she apparently isn't going to get it herself or we would have heard about it. Although, if she tried, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

In your opinion it's very wrong. In my opinion it's mild and 1000% justified. And I believe she's a big drinker. I took one look at her in that very first video and saw the telltale signs. I thought she was drinking heavily and/or taking meds WAY before KH said one word about it. Her before and after photos, KH's words, and other things that have been said here and there about her appearance and her demeanor, just confirmed it.

I also think KH didn't want to talk about it before, for obvious reasons. Not the least of which is embarrassment and because he'd kept it from DY. I think at some point he just decided it was better to come clean, even if his credibility and public perception about how he handled the situation took a blow. I keep remember DY's words about how what you do *now* is what makes the difference (total paraphrase). I know she was talking to TH, but I'm wondering if KH didn't make a similar decision at his "crossroads" jmoo

Well,I'm going to have to hear this from others besides Kaine and right now,NO ONE is saying this but him.Honestly,We all do not know if she is an alcoholic or not and to put it out there she has an alcohol problem is slander.It really is.Well,again recovery is there if there is a problem with any one.

 

[germaine]

Well,I'm going to have to hear this from others besides Kaine and right now,NO ONE is saying this but him.Honestly,We all do not know if she is an alcoholic or not and to put it out there she has an alcohol problem is slander.It really is.Well,again recovery is there if there is a problem with any one.

well, as another poster just pointed out, it's only slander if it's not true. And as between us and KH only he knows whether his statements about what he saw and about what friends have since told him (about the low lines on their liquor bottles after visits from TH) are true. I'm coming down on the side of true v. slander -- especially given the other signs I noted before he accused her and what we've learned about how she appeared on a regular basis--exhausted, spent, unstable. jmoo

 

[Pensfan]

No one, including Terri Horman, is immune from relapsing from abusing alcohol (if TH was ever abstaining from alcohol). Between 80 - 90% of people treated for alcoholism relapse. Some of those who relapse will do so after years of abstaining.
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_causes_alcoholism_000056_2.htm

 

[kimmera]

In your opinion it's very wrong. In my opinion it's mild and 1000% justified. And I believe she's a big drinker. I took one look at her in that very first video and saw the telltale signs. I thought she was drinking heavily and/or taking meds WAY before KH said one word about it. Her before and after photos, KH's words, and other things that have been said here and there about her appearance and her demeanor, just confirmed it.

I also think KH didn't want to talk about it before, for obvious reasons. Not the least of which is embarrassment and because he'd kept it from DY. I think at some point he just decided it was better to come clean, even if his credibility and public perception about how he handled the situation took a blow. I keep remember DY's words about how what you do *now* is what makes the difference (total paraphrase). I know she was talking to TH, but I'm wondering if KH didn't make a similar decision at his "crossroads" jmoo

BBM~
Embarrassed is exactly the right word. There is a sense of shame brought to the whole family, unfortunately. I know because I lived it. It was one thing for the immediate family to know that Mom was a drunk, but I cannot tell you how humiliating and EMBARRASSING it was to have someone outside of the family bring it up. It's a family disease, for sure. I cannot even fathom the depths of Desiree's pain in light of this. MOO...:twocents:

 

[germaine]

well, as another poster just pointed out, it's only slander if it's not true. And as between us and KH only he knows whether his statements about what he saw and about what friends have since told him (about the low lines on their liquor bottles after visits from TH) are true. I'm coming down on the side of true v. slander -- especially given the other signs I noted before he accused her and what we've learned about how she appeared on a regular basis--exhausted, spent, unstable. jmoo

And I want to add that, as others have also pointed out, how likely is it that there are going to be eyewitnesses to her drinking herself to pass-out at home at night? There is only one other possible witness, and even he wasn't there for months before this happened. I very much doubt that TH was a daytime drinker or even that she drank heavily at social events. She would be too interested in her image. No mother-of-the-year drinks herself under the table at a toddler b-day party for example. And many drunks are perfectly capable of limiting their excesses to circumstances where the conseunces to themselves are minimal.

My father was a life-long alcoholic (and worse). But he only drank at night and on the weekends. Every single night he would drink at least two bottles of wine than go to bed. He did this for DECADES. Yet every morining he got up at about 4 a.m. to go to work (he had his own business). On many weekends, he would binge completely. To the point of not coming home at all. But he always went to work on Monday. He didn't have little kids to take care of, but if he had, I'm sure he would have cut out the weekend binging, and just stick to drinking at night. He drank to excess but didn't ever do it in a way that would prevent him from taking care of his primary responsibilities.

eta: I should have said life-long heavy drinker. I know that all alcoholics are life-long alcoholics. It's whether they are sober that's the key.

 

[nursebeeme]

Well,I'm going to have to hear this from others besides Kaine and right now,NO ONE is saying this but him.Honestly,We all do not know if she is an alcoholic or not and to put it out there she has an alcohol problem is slander.It really is.Well,again recovery is there if there is a problem with any one.

she DID have a conviction of DUI with a CHILD in the car.

okay.. so maybe Kaine is making up the rest?

If we are to be that deep thinking and critical about every single bit of this case.. so be it.

We will just have to think this way in separate boxes... because I do not see why Kaine is being bashed over his ascertians when he was the ONE LIVING IN THE HOME.

at this point we pick apart what he says because we don't believe him?

where has Terri denied this?

I have not seen that side of the argument.

MOO

 

[Ms Suzanne]

she DID have a conviction of DUI with a CHILD in the car.

okay.. so maybe Kaine is making up the rest?

If we are to be that deep thinking and critical about every single bit of this case.. so be it.

We will just have to think this way in separate boxes... because I do not see why Kaine is being bashed over his ascertians when he was the ONE LIVING IN THE HOME.

at this point we pick apart what he says because we don't believe him?

where has Terri denied this?

I have not seen that side of the argument.

MOO

I do not want to bash Kaine.I just do not believe some of his allegations or the way he said things.
Her DUI was 5 years ago.Not today.That doesn't show me a problem.

I will say this and then I will move on.I've been in recovery for a long time and the ONLY ONE that can really call her an alcoholic is Terri herself.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

 

[Chablis]

It's apparantly not proven or she would be in jail now and she isn't.I personally do not think any of this has to do with little Kyron missing.What are they doing RIGHT NOW to find little Kyron?That is what matters.Not all this crap.Where is this sweet little boy?It quit being about Kyron a long time ago and that's very sad.

Well, they are searching Sauvie Island again I saw on TV this weekend.

But really though, its because of Kyron the MFH plot came to Kaines attention, I mean how much can one person take?

 

[kimmera]

I do not want to bash Kaine.I just do not believe some of his allegations or the way he said things.
Her DUI was 5 years ago.Not today.That doesn't show me a problem.

I will say this and then I will move on.I've been in recovery for a long time and the ONLY ONE that can really call her an alcoholic is Terri herself.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

BBM~

I applaud you on your recovery Ms Suzanne, I really do...but I respectfully disagree with the rest of your statement. Just because TH doesn't admit she is an alcoholic doesn't make her any less of one. It only means that she is in denial. I DO understand that admitting you are powerless over alcohol is the first step in recovery, though. MOO...:twocents:

 

[Pensfan]

I do not want to bash Kaine.I just do not believe some of his allegations or the way he said things.
Her DUI was 5 years ago.Not today.That doesn't show me a problem.

I will say this and then I will move on.I've been in recovery for a long time and the ONLY ONE that can really call her an alcoholic is Terri herself.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

BBM
There may be a room of people that could testify that TH is an alcoholic but one of AA's mottos is "Who you see here, what you hear here, let it stay here."

 

[germaine]

I do not want to bash Kaine.I just do not believe some of his allegations or the way he said things.
Her DUI was 5 years ago.Not today.That doesn't show me a problem.

I will say this and then I will move on.I've been in recovery for a long time and the ONLY ONE that can really call her an alcoholic is Terri herself.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.

o/t, I just want to congratulate you, Ms. Suzanne. I can imagine how hard recovery is, and I admire you and respect you for it. I wish my parent had even tried, much less accomplished sobriety.

 

[germaine]

BBM~

I applaud you on your recovery Ms Suzanne, I really do...but I respectfully disagree with the rest of your statement. Just because TH doesn't admit she is an alcoholic doesn't make her any less of one. It only means that she is in denial. I DO understand that admitting you are powerless over alcohol is the first step in recovery, though. MOO...:twocents:

ITA...they are usually the very LAST ones to admit they have a problem. Although I understand that subjective acknowledgment is critical to recovery, it's not critical to whether one actually IS an alcoholic,imo.

 

[nursebeeme]

we have not seen terri ADMIT or DENY being an alcoholic

just that she was charged driving a car with a child in it while drunk


and her husband... same one which LAW ENFORCEMENT gave info on his own murder for hire plot...his testimony to that fact.

all that is left is for her to testify against it.. burden is on her at this point and she refuses to talk about it.

does silence=-guilt?

no.

but does it make you innocent?

no as well.