Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[TootsieFootsie]

Quite awhile back someone? did post that it was an accident and that she was
"placed very gently on the soft grass"
The person who posted seemed to be quite sure of what happened.

Sent chills up my spine.

 

[they'll get you]

Quite awhile back someone? did post that it was an accident and that she was
"placed very gently on the soft grass"
The person who posted seemed to be quite sure of what happened.

Sent chills up my spine.

Tootsie I said that with 'tongue in cheek' 7 posts back #334 imagining what a coward would do. No harm intended, but in essence I feel this was an absolute possibility as the undergrowth around the bridge was overgrown & Allison was easily hidden there and thus the scratches on GBC (not his face).

 

[LadyBird1]

Ladybird, it all comes down to credibility. If GBC changes his story then the police have to consider whether they believe him and if they continue with murder charges then it will be up to a jury to decide on what they believe happened. The trouble is that juries don't trust people who change their stories and the further down the track it is, the less they believe them.

Another question Alioop, if that's all right. Please and thank-you.
What is the difference between murder and manslaughter?
(I thought manslaughter was the lesser charge.)
I did a bit of googling in regards to murder and suicide, and was shocked to see manslaughter defined as causing death of another through "extreme indifference to human life."

Someone in particular comes prominently to mind when referring to extreme indifference to human life. And I would be horrified to think that is a lesser matter.


•Murder: When someone knowingly causes the death, or injuries resulting in death, of another person.
•Manslaughter: When someone causes the death of another through extreme indifference to human life.
•Self-Defense: When someone causes the death of another in order to protect himself or his family.
•Suicide: The deliberate taking of one's own life.

 

[they'll get you]

By Alison Sandy
From: The Courier-Mail
May 04, 2012 5:27PM


http://www.news.com.au/national/grie...#ixzz1u3wKeJme

Mrs Baden-Clay's best friend, Kerry-Anne Walker, has helped the Dickies in their ordeal and was at the search site every day. She was one of the last to have contact with Mrs Baden-Clay, texting her on the night she disappeared about her plans for the following day.
"That Friday was a busy day for her. She had a full-day conference in town and the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready," Mrs Walker said.
"I had texted her that day, the Thursday, and she texted me back that night saying she'd drop around on her way home from this conference .
"She arranged to drop some stuff off for me on the way home. So it was all a bit of a shock."

The police will have information from Kerry-Anne regarding the sleepover. Where and if they did sleepover and, more importantly, what time these texts were made.
I have a strong feeling Kerry-Anne has shown the police a lot more information.

I have so much sympathy and sadness for this woman knowing she was one of the last to have contact with Allison that night. My thoughts are with you & you must have been a great support to the Dickies as they would have been to you.

 

[Couldbe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makara
By Alison Sandy
From: The Courier-Mail
May 04, 2012 5:27PM


http://www.news.com.au/national/grie...#ixzz1u3wKeJme

Mrs Baden-Clay's best friend, Kerry-Anne Walker, has helped the Dickies in their ordeal and was at the search site every day. She was one of the last to have contact with Mrs Baden-Clay, texting her on the night she disappeared about her plans for the following day.
"That Friday was a busy day for her. She had a full-day conference in town and the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready," Mrs Walker said.
"I had texted her that day, the Thursday, and she texted me back that night saying she'd drop around on her way home from this conference .
"She arranged to drop some stuff off for me on the way home. So it was all a bit of a shock."


The police will have information from Kerry-Anne regarding the sleepover. Where and if they did sleepover and, more importantly, what time these texts were made.
I have a strong feeling Kerry-Anne has shown the police a lot more information.

I have so much sympathy and sadness for this woman knowing she was one of the last to have contact with Allison that night. My thoughts are with you & you must have been a great support to the Dickies as they would have been to you.

...They'll get you, I interpret the events re sleepover, etc were going to occur on the Friday (transcribing can often seem ambiguous)...and if that was the case, then the Friday night would have been the 'night off' ... who knows, maybe she had wanted to have that time with her husband!

 

[LadyBird1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makara
By Alison Sandy
From: The Courier-Mail
May 04, 2012 5:27PM


http://www.news.com.au/national/grie...#ixzz1u3wKeJme

Mrs Baden-Clay's best friend, Kerry-Anne Walker, has helped the Dickies in their ordeal and was at the search site every day. She was one of the last to have contact with Mrs Baden-Clay, texting her on the night she disappeared about her plans for the following day.
"That Friday was a busy day for her. She had a full-day conference in town and the kids were having a sleepover that night, so she would have got all her stuff ready," Mrs Walker said.
"I had texted her that day, the Thursday, and she texted me back that night saying she'd drop around on her way home from this conference .
"She arranged to drop some stuff off for me on the way home. So it was all a bit of a shock."


The police will have information from Kerry-Anne regarding the sleepover. Where and if they did sleepover and, more importantly, what time these texts were made.
I have a strong feeling Kerry-Anne has shown the police a lot more information.

I have so much sympathy and sadness for this woman knowing she was one of the last to have contact with Allison that night. My thoughts are with you & you must have been a great support to the Dickies as they would have been to you.

I have a strong feeling Kerry-Anne has a lot more information too, (which I am sure she has shared with QPS). I also feel that should this information become public, the first to shred it to pieces, abuse it, turn it upside down, and twist it to unrecognizable would be the BC family and their lawyers.

Already they have tried vigorously to peddle the suicide theory.
With no shame or conscience either.

The truth IMO was Allison deserved a medal in coping with her hell on earth situation.

 

[Zanzibar]

Hi... I have partially quoted myself here from a couple of pages ago, hope that's ok....

Does anyone have any information about the second set of scratches to GBC's face?

In the following article, Robert Hoskins, the QPS Snr Forensic Medical Health Officer said

"Each of the main injuries has features making it implausible that it was caused by shaving. The main injuries were not caused at the same time as the more trivial injuries. Those more trivial injuries are fairly characteristic of razor cuts."

I was wondering if anyone knew what the "more trivial injuries" were and how they came about? I'm thinking it might be as simple as he tried to cover up the main injuries with a second set of injuries that he purposely gave himself with a razor. I could also be completely off track here.

Any and all answers greatly appreciated.

tks

Z

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

 

[they'll get you]

I have a strong feeling Kerry-Anne has a lot more information too, (which I am sure she has shared with QPS). I also feel that should this information become public, the first to shred it to pieces, abuse it, turn it upside down, and twist it to unrecognizable would be the BC family and their lawyers.

Already they have tried vigorously to peddle the suicide theory.
With no shame or conscience either.

The truth IMO was Allison deserved a medal in coping with her hell on earth situation.

Thanks Ladybird, from the early stages when OW said she spoke with Allison and she was her normal cheerfully happy self blah blah and then the back peddling Oh she was depressed (huge contradiction under instruction?).
I'm banking Kerry-Anne will shed a lot of light of what frame of mind Allison was in that night and during the several weeks/months before her murder I remember someone close to Allison said they regretted not doing more so, possibly others knew the pain our girl was suffering.

I am obsessed and addicted. I'm so hanging out for March so I can get some answers, Doc I think a conviction will be the only cure?

 

[Couldbe]

Hi... I have partially quoted myself here from a couple of pages ago, hope that's ok....

Does anyone have any information about the second set of scratches to GBC's face?

Zanzibar .... maybe more trivial scratches were caused by GBC when he tried to shave over the top of the scratches on the morning that he telephoned 000.....thus an idea to attribute all of the scratches to the razor was borne.
I thought that there were also scratches on his torso (which could indicate that he was naked, at least to the waist, when they occurred!

 

[LadyBird1]

Zanzibar .... maybe more trivial scratches were caused by GBC when he tried to shave over the top of the scratches on the morning that he telephoned 000.....thus an idea to attribute all of the scratches to the razor was borne.
I thought that there were also scratches on his torso (which could indicate that he was naked, at least to the waist, when they occurred!

I have wondered if CBC actually shaved at all on the morning of the 20 April 2012. The photos depicting the scratch/cut marks look, to me, like he hasn't shaved for over 24 hours.
I am aware that different men grow facial hair at different rates. Be interesting to see AGCC photos of his face after shaving, then the same face with 24 hours of growth.

 

[Couldbe]

I have wondered if CBC actually shaved at all on the morning of the 20 April 2012. The photos depicting the scratch/cut marks look, to me, like he hasn't shaved for over 24 hours.
I am aware that different men grow facial hair at different rates. Be interesting to see AGCC photos of his face after shaving, then the same face with 24 hours of growth.

If he hadn't attempted to shave at all, then another complete lie! .."He said 'I cut myself shaving this morning as I was in a hurry, trying to get the girls ready'," the documents say.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

 

[Zanzibar]

Zanzibar .... maybe more trivial scratches were caused by GBC when he tried to shave over the top of the scratches on the morning that he telephoned 000.....thus an idea to attribute all of the scratches to the razor was borne.
I thought that there were also scratches on his torso (which could indicate that he was naked, at least to the waist, when they occurred!

Thanks TGY - my first reply!!!! I'm excited :great:

You're right, there were scratches on his "chest, torso and neck" which were photographed by Police on 21 April when he apparently voluntarily attended the Police Station. (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...fekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html)

I also agree with regard the more trivial scratches, that he may well have been trying to cover up the major ones. It stated it was done at a different time, I'm not sure how far apart they would have to be for a Dr to determine this.

From my limited research so far about the scratches (I know this is going over old ground for many of you-apologies)

20 April
0800hrs 'ish - QPS notice scratches, GBC says from shaving, QPS say no evidence to support
1000hrs - QPS photographed scratches on GBC's face
?????? - GBC took legal advice and declined to give QPS a statement

21 April
0830hrs - GBC attended 1st Drs clinic asking to have the cuts on his face looked at, saying QPS asked him to (which they didn't)
?????? - GBC voluntarily attended QPS to allow scratches to his body to be photographed on advice from his Lawyers
afternoon - GBC attended 2nd Drs clinic asking same
night - GBC attended 3rd Drs clinic asking same


I believe this means QPS could not see the scratches on his body when they first questioned him and after taking legal advice he had his body examined by a Dr and then attended to have QPS take photo's. It may well have been a surprise to QPS to see the other scratches. Why he attended the 2nd and 3rd Drs remains a mystery to me, maybe he was answer shopping but doc or Alioop might have medical or legal reasons why he may do so.

The key thing that you highlighted for me TGY is that he would likely have been naked as it's unlikely to receive scratches through fabric, although possible. Apart from one mind picture that gives me the shivers, it does indicate to me a bloke at home in shorts or in bed perhaps, when the argument broke out that may have led to the scratches. I live in Vic so this lack of clothing would not be normal unless going to bed, I realise for you guys in the warmer climbs of our lovely country this may not be the case.

All just my humble opinion of course.

Tks in advance for the patience from those in the know as I dig around in old news. :websleuther:


PS - Mods - I haven't linked all the info above but happy to do so if required.

 

[DrWatson]

The bigger, deeper scratches were NOT made by a Gillette Mach III razor. I use one, and even if you deliberately tried to cut yourself with it, by sliding it sideways (which would be silly) it still wouldn't look anything like those scratches. The scratches and nicks that WERE more likely to have come from shaving would be the tiny little nicks we blokes all get when shaving - taking the tops off tiny skin imperfections (those of us with rugged good looks always have those!) Heh!

But those wider and deeper scratches would be consistent with fingernail injuries, but NOT with safety razor injuries.

And re the torso scratches, many of us up here in the warmer climes DO sleep in just shorts, or nothing. He could also have been wearing a shirt but unbuttoned, as another example of how he got the scratches.

As to why he was doctor-shopping, the only reason I can think of is that he was indeed shopping for the answer that he wanted - that he scratched himself shaving. But I'm sure none of those doctors would testify that was the case. I certainly wouldn't, and that's only from seeing the photos, not the actual lesions.

One small inconsistency that does come to mind - the police who attended the scene (the intuitive Constable Ash) noted that there were no blood-stained tissues or other evidence of having cut himself shaving, when he searched the house. BUT - the fact remains that he DID have those scratches, so whether they were caused by a razor or somebody's fingernails, he would still have had to staunch the bleeding regardless. So while the lack of blood-stained tissues may have served to add to Constable Ash's suspicions, GBC could easily have simply stopped the bleeding in the shower, or dabbed the scratches with tissues and then just flushed them down the toilet.

The lack of blood-stained tissues doesn't actually mean anything very much, IMHO, but it DID just add to the level of suspicion, which was a good thing.

 

[Aberline_1979]

Just going through some of the old Century 21 Westside website pages (courtest of the Internet Archive) when I stumbled across this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100417231140/http://www.century21.com.au/westside

If you can make it through the Introduction without vomiting (especially the part about his famous "lineage"), you'll notice that Colonel Mustard-Jacket goes on to list in detail his favorite interests, movies, books, amd music. The whole thing reads like a profile on a dating website...but I'm sure that wasn't an accident. He probably directed all his newly hired female employees to read up about the Big Boss Man once they started :giggle:

 

[Zanzibar]

<respectfully snipped>
But those wider and deeper scratches would be consistent with fingernail injuries, but NOT with safety razor injuries.

And re the torso scratches, many of us up here in the warmer climes DO sleep in just shorts, or nothing. He could also have been wearing a shirt but unbuttoned, as another example of how he got the scratches.

As to why he was doctor-shopping, the only reason I can think of is that he was indeed shopping for the answer that he wanted - that he scratched himself shaving. But I'm sure none of those doctors would testify that was the case. I certainly wouldn't, and that's only from seeing the photos, not the actual lesions.

Thanks Doc, I completely agree re the deep scratches not being caused by a razor and the less trivial ones being caused by one. Also agree re the clean up, if they/ he were cleaning up from any inappropriate activity, then blood from whatever cause would have been cleaned up as well and tissues/toilet paper flushed down the loo.

Good point re the open shirt. Don't know what the temp up there was that night, but I'm guessing warm enough to not require much clothing. :blushing:

Thanks for clarifying re Dr shopping - it's the only plausible reason I could figure.

You may also be able to shed light on the timing of the scratches. If Dr Hoskins refers to both trivial and non-trivial scratches when commenting on the photo taken on the 20th, but states they were at different times, I was wondering how far apart they would have to be for him to determine it was different? From his timing, the non-trivial scratches had to be earlier than 0400hrs, could GBC have then done what has been suggested ie shaved around 0600ish to create further marks in an attempt to cover up the deeper ones?

I guess it's only really of interest in establishing timing of events and perhaps shows the intention to cover up evidence.

And I take the point re rugged good looks, although you may have to provide a link to prove it lest the mods get you.

 

[they'll get you]

I think the police have a lot of pieces of evidence that they believe when all put together will prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Some of those pieces of evidence will be more significant than others. We know some of that evidence but we will know most of it after the comittal.

When there's a fair conviction handed down I think we'll all be dancing in the streets for Allison.

WHERE & WHEN?

 

[Couldbe]

When there's a fair conviction handed down I think we'll all be dancing in the streets for Allison.

WHERE & WHEN?

The really sad part will be ..... what for the little girls, who I am quite sure loved their father so much. Wouldn't think that he would still be deserving of their love.

 

[Groundedgirl]

When there's a fair conviction handed down I think we'll all be dancing in the streets for Allison.

WHERE & WHEN?

I was punching the air like a lunatic at the arrest. :great:

I did the same when bail was denied. :rocker:

I am hoping for a hat trick now. lease:

So will join you in the streets. :floorlaugh:

 

[DrWatson]

And I take the point re rugged good looks, although you may have to provide a link to prove it lest the mods get you.

The imperfection that I was talking about, that gets the top knocked off it by the razor, is the bump caused by the tongue being firmly implanted in the cheek...

Just on the timing of the scratches - it would be VERY difficult - if not impossible - to assess that from those awful monochrome fuzzy copies of the photos that were published. The doctor who inspected those photos would have had high definition digital photos, for sure. Then it's down to things like the colour of the lesions, any surrounding erythema (redness), etc. Still hard to assess accurately, but I would think that the lesions could be differentiated in terms of earlier vs later. In terms of hours - I'm not so sure. It would be guesswork based on underlying sound knowledge. I can tell a fresh wound, scratch, etc from one that's a few hours old, when I see one in the emergency department, for example. But it's part science, part art, and part black magic!

 

[they'll get you]

Doc your input and knowledge is GOLD!