Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[DrWatson]

Law list is online. Baden-clay matter is on at 10 am tomorrow in court 3, floor 3 at the Supreme Court before Justice Applegarth

Court 3, Floor 3 on Feb 3 - I hope it's not an omen and he gets 3 years with time off for being a good boy... Maybe 33 years, perhaps?

Sorry - shouldn't pre-judge these things. But all those 3s lining up must have significance to the more superstitious among us. Good job I'm the opposite of superstitious! :blushing:

 

[Mountain Misst]

Not a silly question Couldbe. I think it just proves the phone was turned on, had battery life and had to be in the vicinity of the fig tree pocket tower at 6.31 am. 5 mins later it may have no longer been in the vicinity of the tower. The phone may have been turned on for some time before that connection though. It may have been turned on since the night before but made no automatic connections to the Internet and no calls were made from it. So the first activity on the phone was the automatic Internet connection at 6.31 am.

My theory was that GBC had Allison's phone and turned it on in order to check that his texts went through - i.e. pretending that she had received them.

For those who are in court tomorrow - am with you in spirit. :seeya:

 

[BreakingNews]

Thanks alioop...

BADEN-CLAY - Justice Applegarth - Court 3 - Floor 3 - 10:00 AM

(Pre-Trial Hearing - Appearance and Legal Representatives Required)

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/Brisbane.htm

OMG, what if GBC pleads guilty tomorrow! We will never get our answers!

 

[Couldbe]

If GBC hadn't intended to leave the house and proceed to work, why wouldn't he just pull on some casual clothes instead of dress himself in a business shirt with a tie (another reason would be to cover the scratches on his neck and chest).

As per Constable Kieron Ash Statement, he met the Constable dressed for work, and this certainly makes it look like he had initially expected Allison to return .... and so continued to carry on as he normally did when preparing to go to work (in his own words: 'this morning was no different ... sh..t, shower and shave and check all emails while sitting on the toilet) ........ BUT, this was all up until he decided to phone 000 to report her missing at 7.15am (One hour after he woke up that morning).

- By being dressed for work, if GBC had expected to give the impression that initially he wasn't necessarily alarmed at her not being at home... it was certainly at odds with his actions following getting no response from Allison when he was 'furiously texting' her and her friends;

- Whether or not it was an initial plan to be gone from the house with his father .... he certainly tried to explain away the scene of the vacuum cleaner and hose being loaded into BC Senior's vehicle as an event which was going to happen.... regardless of the situation of Allison still being missing/reported as a missing person;

- Whether the business shirt and tie were in fact just to hide scratches, etc ....... AND/OR if he was intending to leave with his father following Olivia taking the children to school;

- Unexpected phone calls from Kate Rankin at 7am (and again while GBC was being interviewed ... as per GBC Interview document);

- When taking the above factors into account, and due to calling 000 and expecting (or not expecting) Police to attend at the house so soon ... looking at the scene, it looks VERY MUDDY!

JMO - for GBC, things certainly didn't go as he had thought they would .... and quite a bit ad-libbing had to occur on his part.

 

[Makara]

Only one person on this earth doesn't want Allisons phone to surface!

Um...I think there is more than one person. Just saying.

 

[Makara]

Yeah, and I can just imagine someone whispering in GBC's ear "Just act normal. Do what you would normally do of a morning. Stay cool and everything will be okay."

If GBC hadn't intended to leave the house and proceed to work, why wouldn't he just pull on some casual clothes instead of dress himself in a business shirt with a tie (another reason would be to cover the scratches on his neck and chest).

As per Constable Kieron Ash Statement, he met the Constable dressed for work, and this certainly makes it look like he had initially expected Allison to return .... and so continued to carry on as he normally did when preparing to go to work (in his own words: 'this morning was no different ... sh..t, shower and shave and check all emails while sitting on the toilet) ........ BUT, this was all up until he decided to phone 000 to report her missing at 7.15am (One hour after he woke up that morning).

- By being dressed for work, if GBC had expected to give the impression that initially he wasn't necessarily alarmed at her not being at home... it was certainly at odds with his actions following getting no response from Allison when he was 'furiously texting' her and her friends;

- Whether or not it was an initial plan to be gone from the house with his father .... he certainly tried to explain away the scene of the vacuum cleaner and hose being loaded into BC Senior's vehicle as an event which was going to happen.... regardless of the situation of Allison still being missing/reported as a missing person;

- Whether the business shirt and tie were in fact just to hide scratches, etc ....... AND/OR if he was intending to leave with his father following Olivia taking the children to school;

- Unexpected phone calls from Kate Rankin at 7am (and again while GBC was being interviewed ... as per GBC Interview document);

- When taking the above factors into account, and due to calling 000 and expecting (or not expecting) Police to attend at the house so soon ... looking at the scene, it looks VERY MUDDY!

JMO - for GBC, things certainly didn't go as he had thought they would .... and quite a bit ad-libbing had to occur on his part.

 

[possumheart]

BADEN-CLAY: I had an affair I-, um that ended last year.
Um, and obviously that has put a, a strain on the relationship.
Um, but we've been working through it and --
Um, and in fact we went and saw a counsellor on Monday [INDISTINCT]
Her name was Carmel [INDISTINCT] um I can't remember her surname. My wife --
Organised it.
She, I think normally works from Spring Hill somewhere but um on Monday she is in Kenmore at the, at a, a clinic at ah where um.
900 Moggill Road.
And I think --
Her name was Carmel.
(SSGT CURTIS: Was there anything that came out of that um, that's Kenmore, isn't it, was there anything that would have upset your wife?)
No. Overall it was a pretty positive thing, I think. She had seen her previously um in Spring Hill.
Um and w-, we've been to a couple of different counsellors and we're both comfortable with working [INDISTINCT] --
We, Alison was comfortable with this woman, so I spent ah, I think about an hour with her --
Oh alone. And then together --
We spent a bit of extra time. And I thought overall it was a very positive thing. There were some --
Strategies and [INDISTINCT]. It's about rebuilding the trust and everything --
Obviously.
.
.
.
(Ssgt Curtis: And how long have you been married?)
BADEN-CLAY: Ah since the twenty-third of August 1997.
So this'll be our fifteenth wedding anniversary.
(Ssgt Curtis: [INDISTINCT] fifteen years approx? Okay. Has she ever done this before? Is this in character?)
BADEN-CLAY: Never, no.
(Ssgt Curtis: Alright. Well is there any incident or anything that happened last night that could have set her off?
BADEN-CLAY: Ah, I don't think so. I mean, the, the, the counsellor on Monday suggested that we set aside fifteen minutes a night to, for Allison to be able to vent and grill me on, you know, the [INDISTINCT] --
And all of that sort of thing. And we did that. But that was no, you know, it wasn't.
(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)
BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]
(Sgt Jackson: your general relationship at the moment.)
BADEN-CLAY: It's been very good. It's b-, we've had um some challenges recently as we'll --
Um, as I was explaining before, the um, the affair that I had was with somebody who worked in the business. They left as soon as.

(I have left out any unnecessary prompting by the interviewers, just putting this up here for anyone interested in cutting and pasting bits for discussion which we can't do with the PDF)

 

[they'll get you]

(Ssgt Curtis: Alright. Well is there any incident or anything that happened last night that could have set her off?

(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)

Great pickup Possy. Incident or anything last night? LOOK AT THOSE SCRATCHES & Could someone reported the screams?

 

[Makara]

You're a gem Possum. Thank you. :cheers:

BADEN-CLAY: I had an affair I-, um that ended last year.
Um, and obviously that has put a, a strain on the relationship.
Um, but we've been working through it and --
Um, and in fact we went and saw a counsellor on Monday [INDISTINCT]
Her name was Carmel [INDISTINCT] um I can't remember her surname. My wife --
Organised it.
She, I think normally works from Spring Hill somewhere but um on Monday she is in Kenmore at the, at a, a clinic at ah where um.
900 Moggill Road.
And I think --
Her name was Carmel.
(SSGT CURTIS: Was there anything that came out of that um, that's Kenmore, isn't it, was there anything that would have upset your wife?)
No. Overall it was a pretty positive thing, I think. She had seen her previously um in Spring Hill.
Um and w-, we've been to a couple of different counsellors and we're both comfortable with working [INDISTINCT] --
We, Alison was comfortable with this woman, so I spent ah, I think about an hour with her --
Oh alone. And then together --
We spent a bit of extra time. And I thought overall it was a very positive thing. There were some --
Strategies and [INDISTINCT]. It's about rebuilding the trust and everything --
Obviously.
.
.
.
(Ssgt Curtis: And how long have you been married?)
BADEN-CLAY: Ah since the twenty-third of August 1997.
So this'll be our fifteenth wedding anniversary.
(Ssgt Curtis: [INDISTINCT] fifteen years approx? Okay. Has she ever done this before? Is this in character?)
BADEN-CLAY: Never, no.
(Ssgt Curtis: Alright. Well is there any incident or anything that happened last night that could have set her off?
BADEN-CLAY: Ah, I don't think so. I mean, the, the, the counsellor on Monday suggested that we set aside fifteen minutes a night to, for Allison to be able to vent and grill me on, you know, the [INDISTINCT] --
And all of that sort of thing. And we did that. But that was no, you know, it wasn't.
(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)
BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]
(Sgt Jackson: your general relationship at the moment.)
BADEN-CLAY: It's been very good. It's b-, we've had um some challenges recently as we'll --
Um, as I was explaining before, the um, the affair that I had was with somebody who worked in the business. They left as soon as.

(I have left out any unnecessary prompting by the interviewers, just putting this up here for anyone interested in cutting and pasting bits for discussion which we can't do with the PDF)

 

[Makara]

(Ssgt Curtis: Alright. Well is there any incident or anything that happened last night that could have set her off?

(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)

Great pickup Possy. Incident or anything last night? LOOK AT THOSE SCRATCHES & Could someone reported the screams?

Whoa! Certainly is a good pick-up Poss. And then see how GBC deflects the question ever so slightly.

BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]

There were a few rumours posted here a while back in relation to police cars being seen at the Brookfield house on the Wednesday and Thursday nights. We can't elaborate on rumours so I won't but I do think that the police were onto GBC right from the outset.

 

[they'll get you]

Whoa! Certainly is a good pick-up Poss. And then see how GBC deflects the question ever so slightly.



There were a few rumours posted here a while back in relation to police cars being seen at the Brookfield house on the Wednesday and Thursday nights. We can't elaborate on rumours so I won't but I do think that the police were onto GBC right from the outset.

Was that the reason the police were so prompt? Screams may have been reported that night and the police didn't/did attend but now they have the source of the screams.
:loveyou: Poss
:loveyou: constable Kieron Ash

 

[Makara]

Was that the reason the police were so prompt? Screams may have been reported that night and the police didn't/did attend but now they have the source of the screams.
:loveyou: Poss
:loveyou: constable Kieron Ash

I don't know whether receiving the 000 call from GBC at 7:15am and then arriving at the Brookfield house by 8:00am would be considered prompt. It was early in the morning and the police probably didn't have any other jobs on at the time but I wouldn't say three quarters of an hour is prompt, especially for a 000 call. One thing I do know is that police, irrespective of what Australian state they are in, detest having to attend domestic disputes.

 

[Liadan]

Bruce Flegg loaned him one via his female offsider I believe.

yes poss but I don't think we are privy to those details.

 

[LadyBird1]

(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)
BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]

Oh dear, I must be the thickest person around! I just got it.....I think!
Allison doesn't scream when she vents.....
However there were reports of screams from this area last night.
And GBC knew nothing of same. .... So he says.
(No wonder for the INDISTINCT mumblings)

 

[Liadan]

(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)
BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]

Oh dear, I must be the thickest person around! I just got it.....I think!
Allison doesn't scream when she vents.....
However there were reports of screams from this area last night.
And GBC knew nothing of same. .... So he says.
(No wonder for the INDISTINCT mumblings)

Ummm sooo sorry but is the gist that because she doesn't scream at GBC Allison was screaming for her life? Apologies in advance for my difficulty in getting the plot here!

 

[possumheart]

(No wonder for the INDISTINCT mumblings)

:giggle:

 

[they'll get you]

BADEN-CLAY: [INDISTINCT] No. She's not like that. Um no. She has, she has --
Sworn at me in the past --
But she didn't swear at me [INDISTINCT]

Sworn at him? After what he put her though? Allison must have been an angel not to ever swear and call that ****** names.

Laiden it was the profound question the police asked. '(Sgt Jackson: When she vents does she scream at you?)
Did they have reports of the screams that night & was it a leading question?
Then (Ssgt Curtis: Alright. Well is there any incident or anything that happened last night that could have set her off?
Incident? Take a look at his face!
They were asking the obvious questions and he was answering with obvious lies.

 

[Doidy]

One bit of "logic" in GBC's story I don't understand (one of many!) is...

If GBC and his Dad were both there at the house from about 7am (allegedly so GBC could go out looking for Allison and his dad could 'look after the girls'), why did OW need to also come round at 8 to drop the girls at school?? Even if GBC had not got back to the house by 830 when it was time for school drop off (if in fact he even left the house to go looking) his dad could just have dropped the girls off for him, as his dad was there anyway with the girls. Makes no sense to drag another clan member over to drop off the girls does it? Unless the girls came over from skull manor with OW, having stayed the night there (even if unexpectedly). In which case what was the dad doing there if the girls weren't there? Helping GBE dispose of poor Allison's body (2 cars were seen at kholo bridge that morning) and removing evidence with a hose and vacuum. Moo

 

[Couldbe]

One bit of "logic" in GBC's story I don't understand (one of many!) is...

If GBC and his Dad were both there at the house from about 7am (allegedly so GBC could go out looking for Allison and his dad could 'look after the girls'), why did OW need to also come round at 8 to drop the girls at school?? Even if GBC had not got back to the house by 830 when it was time for school drop off (if in fact he even left the house to go looking) his dad could just have dropped the girls off for him, as his dad was there anyway with the girls. Makes no sense to drag another clan member over to drop off the girls does it? Unless the girls came over from skull manor with OW, having stayed the night there (even if unexpectedly). In which case what was the dad doing there if the girls weren't there? Helping GBE dispose of poor Allison's body (2 cars were seen at kholo bridge that morning) and removing evidence with a hose and vacuum. Moo

Doidy, first of all I don't believe that GBC commenced his day on the morning of the 20th waking up at 6.15am. I think he had been busy tidying up the house a bit and vacuuming the Captiva.

I would say that he phoned his sister to bring the children over from the BC Seniors' residence to get ready for school around 7 am ....... he said that Olivia had driven around the streets a bit looking for Allison too; this is most likely while the father was at the house and the children were getting into their school uniforms ready for school. At this time, GBC could have been out in the streets too (possibility they were together in the one vehicle .... when he said that he phoned 000).

By 8am:-
... Olivia had already returned to the house and was off to school with children;
... Vacuum cleaner with evidence from the previous night's events was ready to be loaded into the father's vehicle;
... GBC was spruced up and ready to leave with his father to go to the house which was being launched onto the market and to be auctioned that day.

Whether his father had been at the house in the early hours / gone back to his home / then returned later around 7am ..... well maybe, but there has not been an accomplice charged in this murder.

 

[possumheart]

^
NBC was there because he needed to pick up Gerard and a vacuum cleaner and hose to attend the auction of the Cheesman house at 57 Woodfield Road Pullenvale. Cheesman was one of G's business backers and an old school buddy, and they had given the 40 year old house a makeover - which is how Gerard had cut his hand earlier in the week on a light fitting.