Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #4

[JerseyGirl]

Arlene was only 4 or 5 when her parents separated, maybe she doesn't have memories of it. But she must have heard about it from siblings and other family members.

How old was Arlene when her brother, Anthony, was 12 years old?

On December 26, 1993, Castro was arrested after he arrived home drunk and began beating Figueroa, police said. "I was afraid that he would come home in this condition so I had already called police," a police report at the time quoted Figueroa as telling them.

She told police that he had thrown her to the ground, hit her about the face and head and kicked her, according to a Cleveland police report.

Their 12-year-old son, Anthony, ran out of the house to get help for Figueroa and was pursued by Castro, the report said.

When a grand jury considered the incident, Figueroa said she could not remember the abuse, according to court documents. The case was dropped.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/11/us-usa-missing-ohio-abuse-idUSBRE94A06320130511

 

[JerseyGirl]

New jail logs released today:

The logs show that Castro periodically asks for the time, looks out the window and stares at the ceiling.

“... up and pacing,” according to a handwritten note at 8:10 a.m. on Tuesday, which follows an entry on Castro going to the bathroom.

“Inmate laying on mat staring at the floor,” says an entry that night at 7:30 p.m.

“Inmate laying on mat staring at the ceiling,” says an entry 10 minutes later.

Wednesday morning beginning at 10:20 a.m., Castro cleaned his cell for 40 minutes, according to the logs.

“Thank you,” Castro says when he received his breakfast at 6:36 a.m. on Thursday, the logs said.

“Thank you have a good day officer,” Castro says about 15 minutes later, according to the logs.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...eland-suspect-passes-time-pacing-staring.html

 

[MCDRAW]

New jail logs released today:

The logs show that Castro periodically asks for the time, looks out the window and stares at the ceiling.

“... up and pacing,” according to a handwritten note at 8:10 a.m. on Tuesday, which follows an entry on Castro going to the bathroom.

“Inmate laying on mat staring at the floor,” says an entry that night at 7:30 p.m.

“Inmate laying on mat staring at the ceiling,” says an entry 10 minutes later.

Wednesday morning beginning at 10:20 a.m., Castro cleaned his cell for 40 minutes, according to the logs.

“Thank you,” Castro says when he received his breakfast at 6:36 a.m. on Thursday, the logs said.

“Thank you have a good day officer,” Castro says about 15 minutes later, according to the logs.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...eland-suspect-passes-time-pacing-staring.html

Too bad they can't put duct tape on his face and chain him too the wall. just sayin....

 

[danzn16]

Nothing much new, but here is a video interview with the cops who rescued them.

Cleveland Patrol Officers Recount Finding Missing Women - YouTube

These officers are amazing. It's so good to see the personal and emotional sides of officers that we don't get to see often.

 

[Squeeze]

At this time, I wouldn't believe any thing that comes from the Knight family.

I'm not sure why its hard to believe that she needs reconstructive surgery.

 

[SophieRose]

How old was Arlene when her brother, Anthony, was 12 years old?

On December 26, 1993, Castro was arrested after he arrived home drunk and began beating Figueroa, police said. "I was afraid that he would come home in this condition so I had already called police," a police report at the time quoted Figueroa as telling them.

She told police that he had thrown her to the ground, hit her about the face and head and kicked her, according to a Cleveland police report.

Their 12-year-old son, Anthony, ran out of the house to get help for Figueroa and was pursued by Castro, the report said.

When a grand jury considered the incident, Figueroa said she could not remember the abuse, according to court documents. The case was dropped.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/11/us-usa-missing-ohio-abuse-idUSBRE94A06320130511

Articles have said Arlene was 13 years old when Gina DeJesus was kidnapped in April 2004. So Arlene was born in 1990-91. So in 1993, she would have only been 2 or 3 years old.

 

[jjenny]

This all sounds very typical of an abused wife. She would file charges but when time came to go to court she would fail to pursue these charges.

 

[jjenny]

It was reported that bones from a dog were dug up in the back yard, so that would seem to be the case.

The rumor that Michele said another woman was there at the time she was abducted seems to be false. LE has said there is nothing to indicate there were any more victims.

But who was this woman? Michelle doesn't say she was chained up with Michelle. Do we know when Angie moved out of the house? Considering Angie reportedly stayed behind when her mother and the other children moved out.

 

[Tugela]

It works both ways. A parent that doesn't follow up on a child's (even an adult) disappearance should, at the very least, raise suspicion and awareness on LE's part.

moo

That is probably not uncommon though, especially when there is an element of estrangement in the family.

 

[Tugela]

I'm not sure why its hard to believe that she needs reconstructive surgery.

I think the person who claimed that was the GM, but it doesn't sound like she had actually seen Michelle. Perhaps stuff she heard, which she may or may not have understood correctly.

There are going to be a lot of things said, understood or reported which are not accurate. To know what is or isn't true will take some time IMO, and until then we should not assume everything anyone says is correct.

 

[Tugela]

But who was this woman? Michelle doesn't say she was chained up with Michelle. Do we know when Angie moved out of the house? Considering Angie reportedly stayed behind when her mother and the other children moved out.

We don't know what Michelle said. Only rumours. We do know that LE have reported that there is no evidence of anyone else, and we will have to take that as the correct version until there is something concrete to indicate otherwise.

Remember the Jaycee Dugard case? When she was first found there were all sorts of stories about other girls and other women, stuff that the neighbors "saw", but none of that turned out to be true, and when Jaycee finally told her story herself she made no mention of anyone else or said anything to suggest that the more lurid claims made initially in the tabloids had any factual basis.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

It works both ways. A parent that doesn't follow up on a child's (even an adult) disappearance should, at the very least, raise suspicion and awareness on LE's part.

moo

Agreed. IMO, there were a lot of red flags that LE should have taken more seriously. While Michelle had every reason to leave on her own accord there was also the possibility it was in a certain person(s) interest that she vanish. The combination of her situation with her step-father, the trial, and the reaction or lack there-of from her family should have raised a few eyebrows.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

That is probably not uncommon though, especially when there is an element of estrangement in the family.

I hate to say it but it's kind of unnatural for a parent to be uninterested. Look at Madeline McCann's parents or Casey Anthony. I'll never forget the anguish on Beth Holloway's face every time she appeared on T.V. I'm not suggesting that every family is going to have the same reaction or that every parent that doesn't put their heart and soul into searching for their missing child is guilty. Just that certain behaviors or lack of any real effort from a family should cause LE to give it a second look.

 

[KaaBoom]

I'm not sure why its hard to believe that she needs reconstructive surgery.

Well apparently, according to officials, she doesn't need reconstructive surgery. Which means that her family is not a very reliable source of information. Therefor I wouldn't believe anything they say.

 

[nikb]

apparently 3 dogs were living in the house too

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ariel-castro-hell-house-home-dogs-article-1.1346998

Bringing this over from the thread about Castro's house since this is more about the girls and other house inhabitants...

There are pictures of the 3 dogs rescued from AC and his house in the article I quoted above. I can't tell what they mean by "mangled." It looks like someone mixed up the words "mangy" and "tangled" because the dogs look pretty ok. I was surprised how good they look actually - sounds like they just needed a good bath. They don't even look thin which surprised me. I wonder if he used the dogs as part of tormenting the girls with food, letting the dogs eat while the girls starved. That's just me wondering and I haven't heard anything like that reported, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw how relatively healthy the dogs look.

They do seem sad and wanting human attention IMO, and I'm sure they are confused! They don't have that hollow look that abused dogs or those in shelters for a long time tend to get though. I think it's great that they're keeping the dogs for awhile to give the girls a chance to adopt them if they formed a bond and want to keep one/keep them. If not I bet they'll have no problem finding good homes.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

It works both ways. A parent that doesn't follow up on a child's (even an adult) disappearance should, at the very least, raise suspicion and awareness on LE's part.

moo

That is probably not uncommon though, especially when there is an element of estrangement in the family.

Well, estrangement can mean both indifference and alienation. Either one, displayed by a parent of a missing person, imo, should certainly beg for further investigation.

Estrangement from all family shouldn't be considered a reasonable explanation for a missing person ~ Doesn't float as a valid excuse for me! More difficult case ~ yes. But not any kind of explanation!

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I keep fighting with myself about Castro's defense attorneys. While I understand that these lawyers, by coming to his defense, are protecting all of our rights under the Sixth Amendment, I have to admit that their words and demeanor are very offensive to me.

Yes! Yes, I do want Castro to have a speedy and public and fair trial. But I resent that the attorneys that defend him are, apparently, required to conceive some goofy game plan to ensure that. A game plan that requires that, against all obvious facts known to the public, his lawyers must/should enter a not guilty plea for him.

I would feel so much more comfortable knowing that if I were arrested, out of the blue, for something I didn't do that I could say I was not guilty and it would really mean that. I hate that our legal system has somehow had to dilute the truth of claiming innocence or guilt in order to ensure a fair trial where what you say does not really mean what you mean. It only means that you are hoping for a plea bargain.

I am a rules person. If you or I do something wrong then it should be admitted. I am disappointed, time and time again (Casey Anthony, anyone?) by gyrations and manipulations from defense teams that are accepted in our courts, all in the name of protecting the innocent. Meanwhile, the victims are put on the stand to live their torment once again, questioned (even accused of complicity) to make sure that the accused gets a fair trial.

I cannot imagine that any lawyer is blind enough to think they are helping anyone at all by proclaiming Castro's innocence.

 

[nikb]

I keep fighting with myself about Castro's defense attorneys. While I understand that these lawyers, by coming to his defense, are protecting all of our rights under the Sixth Amendment, I have to admit that their words and demeanor are very offensive to me.

Yes! Yes, I do want Castro to have a speedy and public and fair trial. But I resent that the attorneys that defend him are, apparently, required to conceive some goofy game plan to ensure that. A game plan that requires that, against all obvious facts known to the public, his lawyers must/should enter a not guilty plea for him.

I would feel so much more comfortable knowing that if I were arrested, out of the blue, for something I didn't do that I could say I was not guilty and it would really mean that. I hate that our legal system has somehow had to dilute the truth of claiming innocence or guilt in order to ensure a fair trial where what you say does not really mean what you mean. It only means that you are hoping for a plea bargain.

I am a rules person. If you or I do something wrong then it should be admitted. I am disappointed, time and time again (Casey Anthony, anyone?) by gyrations and manipulations from defense teams that are accepted in our courts, all in the name of protecting the innocent. Meanwhile, the victims are put on the stand to live their torment once again, questioned (even accused of complicity) to make sure that the accused gets a fair trial.

I cannot imagine that any lawyer is blind enough to think they are helping anyone at all by proclaiming Castro's innocence.

I totally agree, ExpectingUnicorns. It makes me mad that the system works the way it does. Yes he deserves a right to a fair trial and all that, but where do the victims' rights fall in all this? I mean shouldn't they have some kind of right not to be dragged through a long and painful trial if it's obvious the person is guilty? (I mean AC even confessed, didn't he? IIRC it was at least reported that he did. I don't know if it's true here but I wouldn't doubt that even people who wanted to plead guilty have been talked into pleading not guilty by their attorneys, so they don't lose their bargaining chip.

The other thing that bothers me is it seems like they're somehow blaming the girls/young women, at least in part. Maybe it's just coming across that way in the media reports, but I just do not get a good feeling at all from these attorneys when it comes to how they regard the 3 women. Even if they really do think AC isn't guilty - which seem unbelievable to me but who knows - they could still show some compassion for what these ladies have been through. Or at least say nothing about them at all until they have to in court.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I keep fighting with myself about Castro's defense attorneys. While I understand that these lawyers, by coming to his defense, are protecting all of our rights under the Sixth Amendment, I have to admit that their words and demeanor are very offensive to me.

Yes! Yes, I do want Castro to have a speedy and public and fair trial. But I resent that the attorneys that defend him are, apparently, required to conceive some goofy game plan to ensure that. A game plan that requires that, against all obvious facts known to the public, his lawyers must/should enter a not guilty plea for him.

I would feel so much more comfortable knowing that if I were arrested, out of the blue, for something I didn't do that I could say I was not guilty and it would really mean that. I hate that our legal system has somehow had to dilute the truth of claiming innocence or guilt in order to ensure a fair trial where what you say does not really mean what you mean. It only means that you are hoping for a plea bargain.

I am a rules person. If you or I do something wrong then it should be admitted. I am disappointed, time and time again (Casey Anthony, anyone?) by gyrations and manipulations from defense teams that are accepted in our courts, all in the name of protecting the innocent. Meanwhile, the victims are put on the stand to live their torment once again, questioned (even accused of complicity) to make sure that the accused gets a fair trial.

I cannot imagine that any lawyer is blind enough to think they are helping anyone at all by proclaiming Castro's innocence.

Ultimately it's up to Castro how he pleads, although in this case I'm fairly certain that his attorneys are advising him to plead not guilty. If he pleads guilty he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, the end, it's done. His only hope is to plead not guilty and either hope for a plea bargain or reduced charges and a lighter sentence if the case does go to trial. In other words, he has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty, and everything to gain. He probably isn't even paying his own attorney fees.

I completely agree with you, it's ridiculous what the defense attorneys get away with and how they run the bus right over innocent people and the victims, like they did George Anthony in the Casey Anthony trial. The prosecution has to stick to the facts as determined by evidence and witness testimony. The defense can make up crazy stories and outlandish scenerios with absolutely no supporting evidence and, if they're lucky enough to have a jury like the one we saw in the Casey Anthony case, the criminal goes free and receives marriage proposals and monetary donations from certain (insert adjective of your choice here) members of the public. There is still a group that's working to free Scott Peterson. There is also a group who feel the Boston bombing suspect couldn't possibly be guilty because he's so cute and those pressure cookers are just too darn heavy to carry around in a back pack. It's a sick world that we live in.

 

[SophieRose]

Bringing this over from the thread about Castro's house since this is more about the girls and other house inhabitants...

There are pictures of the 3 dogs rescued from AC and his house in the article I quoted above. I can't tell what they mean by "mangled." It looks like someone mixed up the words "mangy" and "tangled" because the dogs look pretty ok. I was surprised how good they look actually - sounds like they just needed a good bath. They don't even look thin which surprised me. I wonder if he used the dogs as part of tormenting the girls with food, letting the dogs eat while the girls starved. That's just me wondering and I haven't heard anything like that reported, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw how relatively healthy the dogs look.

They do seem sad and wanting human attention IMO, and I'm sure they are confused! They don't have that hollow look that abused dogs or those in shelters for a long time tend to get though. I think it's great that they're keeping the dogs for awhile to give the girls a chance to adopt them if they formed a bond and want to keep one/keep them. If not I bet they'll have no problem finding good homes.

I was expecting to see big dogs because one of the band members who had visited the house one time said he couldn't go upstairs because AC said he had the dogs locked up there. I wonder if the one bathroom was upstairs.