Amanda Berry, Gina deJesus & Michelle Knight - General discussion #4

[SophieRose]

Ultimately it's up to Castro how he pleads, although in this case I'm fairly certain that his attorneys are advising him to plead not guilty. If he pleads guilty he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, the end, it's done. His only hope is to plead not guilty and either hope for a plea bargain or reduced charges and a lighter sentence if the case does go to trial. In other words, he has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty, and everything to gain. He probably isn't even paying his own attorney fees.

I completely agree with you, it's ridiculous what the defense attorneys get away with and how they run the bus right over innocent people and the victims, like they did George Anthony in the Casey Anthony trial. The prosecution has to stick to the facts as determined by evidence and witness testimony. The defense can make up crazy stories and outlandish scenerios with absolutely no supporting evidence and, if they're lucky enough to have a jury like the one we saw in the Casey Anthony case, the criminal goes free and receives marriage proposals and monetary donations from certain (insert adjective of your choice here) members of the public. There is still a group that's working to free Scott Peterson. There is also a group who feel the Boston bombing suspect couldn't possibly be guilty because he's so cute and those pressure cookers are just too darn heavy to carry around in a back pack. It's a sick world that we live in.

The defendant while awaiting trial also gets to spend that time in a county jail cell rather than a state prison, which can be preferable.

 

[mysteriew]

Ultimately it's up to Castro how he pleads, although in this case I'm fairly certain that his attorneys are advising him to plead not guilty. If he pleads guilty he'll spend the rest of his life in prison, the end, it's done. His only hope is to plead not guilty and either hope for a plea bargain or reduced charges and a lighter sentence if the case does go to trial. In other words, he has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty, and everything to gain. He probably isn't even paying his own attorney fees.

I completely agree with you, it's ridiculous what the defense attorneys get away with and how they run the bus right over innocent people and the victims, like they did George Anthony in the Casey Anthony trial. The prosecution has to stick to the facts as determined by evidence and witness testimony. The defense can make up crazy stories and outlandish scenerios with absolutely no supporting evidence and, if they're lucky enough to have a jury like the one we saw in the Casey Anthony case, the criminal goes free and receives marriage proposals and monetary donations from certain (insert adjective of your choice here) members of the public. There is still a group that's working to free Scott Peterson. There is also a group who feel the Boston bombing suspect couldn't possibly be guilty because he's so cute and those pressure cookers are just too darn heavy to carry around in a back pack. It's a sick world that we live in.

I agree with almost everything you say. Except the part about Castro being allowed to plead any way he wishes. I believe that the prosecutor has vowed to go for the death penalty on this case. And I don't think they can plead guilty on a death penalty case. Now whether the prosecutor actually does go for the DP or not is another question. He could mean it or he could just be allowing himself plenty of room for a plea deal. Like maybe LWOP instead of the DP.

I don't actually know if anyone has ever faced the DP in Ohio for the death of an unborn child. In Ohio if you murder a child, that is an aggravating factor and is the only criteria needed to put the Death Penalty on the table. In Ohio a person who causes the death of an unborn child, if not the mother can be prosecuted for murder. But I don't know if it has ever been tested to combine the two (Death Penalty for the death of an unborn child.)

 

[KaaBoom]

I was expecting to see big dogs because one of the band members who had visited the house one time said he couldn't go upstairs because AC said he had the dogs locked up there. I wonder if the one bathroom was upstairs.

The one bathroom was upstairs. He wouldn't let guests use it.

 

[nikb]

I was expecting to see big dogs because one of the band members who had visited the house one time said he couldn't go upstairs because AC said he had the dogs locked up there. I wonder if the one bathroom was upstairs.

I know, me too! He also explained away the thumping in the walls by saying his dogs were being rowdy IIRC. I have to assume the person visiting had never actually seen the dogs if he thought those little guys would cause deep thumping noises.

 

[nikb]

I agree with almost everything you say. Except the part about Castro being allowed to plead any way he wishes. I believe that the prosecutor has vowed to go for the death penalty on this case. And I don't think they can plead guilty on a death penalty case. Now whether the prosecutor actually does go for the DP or not is another question. He could mean it or he could just be allowing himself plenty of room for a plea deal. Like maybe LWOP instead of the DP.

I don't actually know if anyone has ever faced the DP in Ohio for the death of an unborn child. In Ohio if you murder a child, that is an aggravating factor and is the only criteria needed to put the Death Penalty on the table. In Ohio a person who causes the death of an unborn child, if not the mother can be prosecuted for murder. But I don't know if it has ever been tested to combine the two (Death Penalty for the death of an unborn child.)

Interesting. I didn't know that the accused doesn't even have the option to plead guilty if the death penalty's involved. It makes me want to ask WHY NOT? If he knows what he did, knows what the possible penalty is, why can't he be allowed to plead guilty if he chooses to? (not just AC, anyone...). Call me dense, but I just don't understand.

About the second part on the DP and unborn child, I'm really interested in how this all goes from a strictly legal perspective. I don't mean to minimize the horrible things these girls/young women lived through, not at all! I just think it could be a pretty groundbreaking case if you look at the facts alone. Has a situation like this ever come up in a trial? I haven't heard of one, but I certainly could have missed it.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.whas11.com/news/national...-Michelle-Knights-special-hell-206918721.html

They then walked up the stairs to the second floor.

"As we neared the top of the stairs Officer Espada hollered out 'Cleveland police,' at which time Michelle Knight ran and threw herself into PO Espada's arms," Johnson wrote in his report.

When DeJesus emerged from another room, "Officer Espada then put Michelle down, who then jumped into my arms," Johnson wrote.

 

[angel]

I just wanted to mention also that by pleaing not guilty there lies a chance that the prosecution could do something wrong an the entire case get thrown out. The entire jodi arias trial I kept saying I wouldn't be surprised. Only bc the Casey Anthony trial it was just so shocking when she got off. I know hers didn't get thrown out but common what a circus.
In the end I was glad that Travis Alexander got justice. And I hope the same for arial Castro justice will be served I just hope the prosecution doesn't do something and his lawyers challenge every single thing. Personally I believe death is an easy way out -- that's why I'm against the death penalty! Paul Bernardo sits in a single cell alone for the rest of his life and I'm glad for that he is-- well they have a name for it and only people who committed crimes as such get that. Single cell small cold no mattress and only get to go out side for one hour a week or something like that. Also I don't think he has a window either. IMO the death penalty for arial Castro would be a cop out he needs to spend the rest of his life in a small cell -- the fact that Jed be allowed out side would be the only thig I'd say take away. Sometimes I wish we didn't have a justice system that is in favour of the accused. Only one time I wished that. And it was when I was in my early 20s and I myself was adult Napped-- held in a room for 7 days and beaten the only thing I could think of was if I found a way to kill this guy I'd get 25 years for murder but be out in 15!! And that was the only time I could think of that I appreciated that the justice system was for the accused. Luckily I was able to get away bc I was able to get the attention of a neighbour from the up stairs window and that neighbour called 911. Sadly for the whole ordeal he only served 9 months in jail had to give a DNA sample and was on the national sex offenders list for 10 years. In some ways I can relate to these girls but my ordeal does not compare to the 10 years in hell they lived. This case is so close to home for me I've cried so much. Even had a nightmare where I had to ask my husband to come to the bathroom with me in the middle of the night bc I was scared. Luckily I have moved on and found me a very supportive husband. It took me a long time to get over what happened to me and I had pushed it out of my mind the last few years till this happened seemed to have brought it back up. I was told back then that most of the time the people know their abductor. I knew mine, not super well but I had known of my abductor for a couple of months which is how he gained my trust. So it did not surprise me that 2 of the girls knew of him and we may come to find that Michelle was not just abducted off the street. He may have groomed her for a short time to gain enough trust to get her into his home. The fact that le knows that most of the time people know their abductor baffles me that he was not questioned there are a lot of over sights on this case and it sickens me.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

That may be the case, however, as a mother, it is definitely her responsibility to ensure that her daughters report is not forgotten or slipping through the many cracks. All I'm saying is if the family wasn't contacting them or returning their calls, they would assume she was no longer missing. I would be harassing LE on a very regular basis and they wouldn't need to be tracking me down because they would be hearing from me on a constant basis. I don't understand why that wasn't done. If there are 60 cases on the agenda and 4 of them have had no contact, they can only work it so long and hard? What else were they to do without knowledge that she was even missing?

In a perfect world her mother would have been her biggest advocate. She wasn't. If every adult in the U.S. took responsibility for his/her actions we wouldn't have a need for many government agencies. Until LE had proof Michelle was alive her case shouldn't have been tossed aside. She was vulnerable and high risk. It would have been naive for LE to think she could have run off and lived happiy ever after. LE doesn't get to pick and choose which cases they actively pursue based upon parental interest. If that were true, LE might still assume Caylee Anyhony is with the nanny.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I do believe the Ohio unborn law has been used before. Was it in the Jesse Davis case?

 

[JerseyGirl]

Castro's friend Ricky is now speaking:

Rick Sanchez, who often went to the house to play music with Castro, had no idea that three young women, and later a small child, were imprisoned just feet away. He was there only days before the women were sensationally freed.

That night he recalls not being able to let himself out later because “he [Castro] had about five or six locks, one on top of the other. “It was confusing to just open the door and I had to call him and say, ‘Let me out please, I have to get out. Why have you got so many locks?’. “He said, ‘Ricky you know I have a lot of equipment, a lot of speakers, bass guitars’.

Sanchez also recalls seeing a little girl, the child that imprisoned Amanda Berry had in captivity after being raped by Castro. He says: “One time a little girl showed up, the little girl on the news. She was shy.” Castro told him she was his granddaughter, but Sanchez says: “It was kind of strange because I know his kids. I know he has three daughters and a son and when I look at the pictures of his grandkids I have never seen her.”

On another visit Sanchez heard a “boom, boom sound” in the walls. “I asked Ariel, ‘What is this noise?’ He said, ‘I have some dogs on the second level, upstairs’. He took the radio, cranked it all the way up. “Every conversation we had it was hard to hear him unless you be screaming...like he knew he had to cover the noise in case the people hear something.” Sanchez concludes: “He was the best actor I ever met or seen in my life.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/400677/Ariel-Castro-duped-me-over-women-he-held-captive

 

[AnaTeresa]

I keep fighting with myself about Castro's defense attorneys. While I understand that these lawyers, by coming to his defense, are protecting all of our rights under the Sixth Amendment, I have to admit that their words and demeanor are very offensive to me.

Yes! Yes, I do want Castro to have a speedy and public and fair trial. But I resent that the attorneys that defend him are, apparently, required to conceive some goofy game plan to ensure that. A game plan that requires that, against all obvious facts known to the public, his lawyers must/should enter a not guilty plea for him.

I would feel so much more comfortable knowing that if I were arrested, out of the blue, for something I didn't do that I could say I was not guilty and it would really mean that. I hate that our legal system has somehow had to dilute the truth of claiming innocence or guilt in order to ensure a fair trial where what you say does not really mean what you mean. It only means that you are hoping for a plea bargain.

I am a rules person. If you or I do something wrong then it should be admitted. I am disappointed, time and time again (Casey Anthony, anyone?) by gyrations and manipulations from defense teams that are accepted in our courts, all in the name of protecting the innocent. Meanwhile, the victims are put on the stand to live their torment once again, questioned (even accused of complicity) to make sure that the accused gets a fair trial.

I cannot imagine that any lawyer is blind enough to think they are helping anyone at all by proclaiming Castro's innocence.

I am surprised by defense statements made to the media here, as I have been with a few other high profile cases. When you have something big, like your client being beaten by the cops or the prosecutor refusing to disclose evidence, then the media can be a great asset. But in circumstances like this, the less said the better. A simple, "The facts will come out at trial," is far better than what amounts to lies. You want to look dignified, not slimy, so any potential jury members will take you seriously.

They don't teach you how to talk to the media in law school, which contributes to some of these blunders. People try and act like what they've seen on law and order and make strident statements, but it does more harm than good, I think.

 

[weedemout]

Since Michelle is so short I wonder if he thought she was younger than she was and then was pissed off and took it out on her when he realized she was older with developmental problems. A-hole! How you gonna kidnap me, then get mad at me?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Since Michelle is so short I wonder if he thought she was younger than she was and then was pissed off and took it out on her when he realized she was older with developmental problems. A-hole! How you gonna kidnap me, then get mad at me?

Do we know how tall he is? It would be interesting to know if he liked younger girls or chose them based on his ability to physically over power them.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I do believe the Ohio unborn law has been used before. Was it in the Jesse Davis case?

I don't know if this was posted before but it talks about some issues they may have with trying to convict him of murder of the unborn children.

http://nation.time.com/2013/05/09/t...al-homicide-in-the-cleveland-kidnapping-case/

Building a fetal-homicide case against Castro could be very difficult, although Cuyahoga County prosecutor Tim McGinty said Thursday that his office is considering it, which could mean seeking the death penalty. Proving such a case, according to Katherine Hunt Federle, a criminal-law professor at Ohio State University, typically requires expert medical testimony based on physical examinations of the woman who miscarried and the fetus itself. Prosecutors would have to first prove that the pregnancies occurred and then that Castro’s action caused them to end in miscarriage.

I want to see this guy prosecuted to the fullest extent and justice received for these girls in every way possible but if it determined that he cannot be prosecuted for murder, I still have no doubts that he will spend the rest of his life in jail. This is a case where I feel life imprisonment is more appropriately fitting for his crimes.

 

[mysteriew]

I do believe the Ohio unborn law has been used before. Was it in the Jesse Davis case?

The unborn law has been used before, many times. There have been several cases I have seen where people went to jail for causing the death of an unborn child. What I don't know is if the unborn law has ever been used with the law that states anyone who kills a child is eligible for the death penalty. IOW I don't know if anyone has ever been given the death penalty in an unborn child case.


Personally I don't have a problem with him getting the death penalty. But I am not sure how it fits in with the current laws. So that aspect should be interesting. At least it will be if the prosecution charges him with the murders of the babies.

OTOH there is the fact that it would kind of be poetic justice for AC to be locked up for the rest of his life, in the general pop at his age. Poor food, restricted movements, and following someone else's orders all the time.

 

[mysteriew]

Interesting. I didn't know that the accused doesn't even have the option to plead guilty if the death penalty's involved. It makes me want to ask WHY NOT? If he knows what he did, knows what the possible penalty is, why can't he be allowed to plead guilty if he chooses to? (not just AC, anyone...). Call me dense, but I just don't understand.

About the second part on the DP and unborn child, I'm really interested in how this all goes from a strictly legal perspective. I don't mean to minimize the horrible things these girls/young women lived through, not at all! I just think it could be a pretty groundbreaking case if you look at the facts alone. Has a situation like this ever come up in a trial? I haven't heard of one, but I certainly could have missed it.

I am not an attorney so can't say this for fact. But it is my understanding that the US Supreme Court has ruled that a judge cannot be the one to give the death penalty. The case has to be heard by a jury of the defendant's peers, and they must be the ones to assign the death penalty.

 

[Squeeze]

I don't know if this was posted before but it talks about some issues they may have with trying to convict him of murder of the unborn children.

http://nation.time.com/2013/05/09/t...al-homicide-in-the-cleveland-kidnapping-case/



I want to see this guy prosecuted to the fullest extent and justice received for these girls in every way possible but if it determined that he cannot be prosecuted for murder, I still have no doubts that he will spend the rest of his life in jail. This is a case where I feel life imprisonment is more appropriately fitting for his crimes.

I don't see any way possible for him to get any less than life in prison. If he gets the death penalty, so be it. But I wouldn't mind at all if he spent the next 30 or so years in prison. Even if he were to plead insanity, it took far too much effort and planning to keep them hidden for ten years. I cant see an insane person being that caniving.

 

[singers]

Articles have said Arlene was 13 years old when Gina DeJesus was kidnapped in April 2004. So Arlene was born in 1990-91. So in 1993, she would have only been 2 or 3 years old.

So she probably doesn't remember living with her dad. But her mother was continually harrassed, stalked and locked up(how does that happen when you don't live in the same house? ) until 2005 when Arlene was 14. There were continual court case that never went ahead.
I'd say Arlene would have witnessed plenty.

Angie is 33, making her Early 20's when the girls started being kidnapped.

Here's something weird. Ariel is accused of abducting his daughters up until 2005. Did he have them staying in the house, while their friends are in the basement? Those girls are gonna need therapy. What a sick sick father.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

Do we know how tall he is? It would be interesting to know if he liked younger girls or chose them based on his ability to physically over power them.

He is short. If my math is correct, he's only 5'4".

 

[Broken_]

:newhere:I too have suffered and escaped a heinous monster just like Ariel Castro...I bout very much he will plead insanity...In fact i wouldn't be surprised if he say's the girls came on their own free will...Those girls no bout lived in fear every single day they were there...The law has let these girls down on many occasions according to media coverage...i can only say,I'm happy that they are now safe..My story was kept out of the media....but...now it's time to get it out there