Amanda Knox Discussion-Friendly Thread

[concernedcitizen706]

Also the mop to me points to Amanda's partial guilt. So the story is, she brought her mop over to the boyfriend's house, that had Meredith's blood on it, because that same night he had a leak under his sink and he needed a mop? Come on. What are the odds. So the mop and the email make her kind of guilty to me.

 

[minazoe]

who the hell runs around town with a mop? it's absurd. mOO

 

[SMK777]

Yes good point, I could see somebody like Amanda and even her boyfriend be very anxious about their reputation, if Meredith threatened to call the police. Maybe Meredith even tried to call the police. And Rudy and the boyfriend grabbed the phone out of her hand. And then started physically harassing her. And then maybe Rudy brought Meredith into her room and they heard the screams and left. And Rudy raped and killed Meredith after they left.

It's a possible explanation for how they could be involved in a clean up, but not the actual murder.

Of course the Hellman court insists there was no clean up or staging. But the first court believed there was.

I've thought myself in circles for years about this case.

 

[SMK777]

Also the mop to me points to Amanda's partial guilt. So the story is, she brought her mop over to the boyfriend's house, that had Meredith's blood on it, because that same night he had a leak under his sink and he needed a mop? Come on. What are the odds. So the mop and the email make her kind of guilty to me.

I agree that the mop and email are red flags, but the mop had no blood on it. However bleach does destroy blood evidence, and Sollecito's apartment smelled strongly of bleach.

 

[Tower]

This is what made me doubt Amanda Knox. Her email confession. That was not necessary, even if you buy the idea that she was harassed and felt intimidated.

This is my theory on what I think could have happened. Amanda and her boyfriend and Rudy were playing basketball earlier right outside the apartment. Rudy came over to sell them pot, or whatever, drugs, they took. They all went into Amanda's apartment. Meredith was there. Meredith was annoyed they were all in there and smoking pot and being loud. The boyfriend and Rudy harassed meredith back. And then Rudy stabbed Meredith. The boyfriend was present. I believe Amanda was in the other room like she said in her confession, hearing the screams. They left because they were scared and then amanda came back in the morning to mop up the blood. She went back to Rafael's and then they came back again and called police.

I believe the reason she falsely pointed to the bar owner Patrick playing basketball there, is because she needed a black man in the basketball court to cover and switch for Rudy there

Why would you characterize this as a confession? I would not write like this now, at this point in my life, but when I was young, sleep-deprived and wanted to exorcise all of the emotions, I would write very much in this style. It looks exactly like what a young naive person who has been asked way too many questions and never wants to answer any more, would write.

Amanda's Email to Friends (Nov. 4, 2007)

Welcome to Famous Trials, the Web’s largest and most visited collection of original essays, trial transcripts and exhibits, maps, images, and other materials relating to the greatest trials in world history.public $MetaDesc =

famous-trials.com

There is not one shred of physical evidence for anything that you speculate and it leaves many other questions unanswered.

 

[Tower]

Also the mop to me points to Amanda's partial guilt. So the story is, she brought her mop over to the boyfriend's house, that had Meredith's blood on it, because that same night he had a leak under his sink and he needed a mop? Come on. What are the odds. So the mop and the email make her kind of guilty to me.

There was no blood on the mop.

 

[fridaybaker]

I believe in false confession. Not this one, though.

 

[Tower]

I believe in false confession. Not this one, though.

What about a person being accused of a crime with no physical evidence and with all physical evidence clearly pointing to Guede, the convicted murderer? Why people want to twist themselves into knots to drag AK into this rather simple solo male murder case is incredibly odd. The media smear campaign was so effective that people still believe the investigators who are now proven, convicted liars.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Why would you characterize this as a confession? I would not write like this now, at this point in my life, but when I was young, sleep-deprived and wanted to exorcise all of the emotions, I would write very much in this style. It looks exactly like what a young naive person who has been asked way too many questions and never wants to answer any more, would write.

Amanda's Email to Friends (Nov. 4, 2007)

Welcome to Famous Trials, the Web’s largest and most visited collection of original essays, trial transcripts and exhibits, maps, images, and other materials relating to the greatest trials in world history.public $MetaDesc =

famous-trials.com

There is not one shred of physical evidence for anything that you speculate and it leaves many other questions unanswered.

Because she said her boss Patrick was there. And she wrote this email confession after she left the interrogation like the next day. Come on who does that. You would not specifically name somebody else for a false confession.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I agree that the mop and email are red flags, but the mop had no blood on it. However bleach does destroy blood evidence, and Sollecito's apartment smelled strongly of bleach.

Okay so apparently Amanda mopped the bathroom that morning because it was bloody. And then she brought the mop to her boyfriend's. And when they got the mop later, it had no blood on it? So she mopped a bloody bathroom floor and then there was no blood on the mop? Knowing how sensitive those tests are for blood? How did she clean it so well? Either way I don't think there's any argument from either party, that she did clean up the bloody floor that morning, so the blood was on the mop at some point.

 

[Tower]

Because she said her boss Patrick was there. And she wrote this email confession after she left the interrogation like the next day. Come on who does that. You would not specifically name somebody else for a false confession.

Did you read the email? I linked it. It is not a confession and doesn’t name her boss.

The police suggested maybe someone else she knows could have murdered MK. They had a black hair. They told her they knew she was meeting up with her boss because she texted “see you later” in broken Italian and they insisted that meant she was meeting her boss that night and they killed MK.

This was all suggested by police under duress. It’s a perfect example of exactly why false confessions occur. The police told her they had evidence and she was guilty (they lied) and asked why she was meeting up later with her boss. Once again, instead of gathering evidence and trying to follow it, they formulated a hypothesis and coerced a confession to fit their false narrative.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I can't believe everything listed in the Massei report was false. But let's assume it maybe was all false.

I still find Knox's email to friends and family at home to be overly defensive.

At that point she had been questioned multiple times, spent most of her days with the police and some days not released until the middle of the night. I can see why she wanted to gather her thoughts and confide in others.

I still find the presence of her and Rafael at the cottage instead of away on their day trip to be questionable.

I say the opposite. She went home to shower and change for the trip, saw that things were off, called her roommates and went back with Raffaele, discovered the break in and called the police. I find that astonishingly normal.

And they hung back when Meredith's door was kicked open, as if they knew what was in there.

At that point there were six other people in the tiny hallway. Raffaele had tried to break down the door earlier. Why would he attempt to do that if they knew and were hiding it?

Let's assume Guede did act alone. I've always felt that there might be a strong chance that he did. And I never believed in the 3 against 1 sex game.

Of course.

I still think Amanda convinced Rafael to help with some sort of staging to point away from Guede. Why? Because she had told him Meredith would be alone, and he should rob her and maybe try his luck with her.

This is the gold standard of Occam's Razor - everything can be explained by Rudy acting alone, and there is no evidence of Amanda instigating or indeed having any contact with Rudy at all. So why add her? What part of the scene required staging?

She may have said this after drinking and was not really serious. Most likely she didn't believe he'd really do it, and she certainly didn't believe he would kill Meredith.

Or Rudy could have worked for the Albanian mafia whose boss had been turned down by Meredith at the Halloween disco and wanted revenge.

My point is, there's no evidence at all for any of the above scenarios. That is my issue with this whole thing. It starts from the conclusion - Amanda is involved - and works backwards, hypothesizing scenarios where she was. Criminal Investigations should work the other way around, let the evidence lead to the conclusion. And if there's no evidence...

 

[FergusMcDuck]

This is what made me doubt Amanda Knox. Her email confession. That was not necessary, even if you buy the idea that she was harassed and felt intimidated.

This is my theory on what I think could have happened. Amanda and her boyfriend and Rudy were playing basketball earlier right outside the apartment.

At 20:18 and 20:35 Amanda received and answered texts while at Raffaele's apartment. At 20:42, Raffaele got a call from his father at his apartment. At 21:09 the movie Amelie that they had been watching on Raffaele's computer stopped. At 21:24 an episode of Naruto was started on Raffaele's computer.

Meredith arrived home just after 21:00, and since she wore her jacket when attacked, she likely died very shortly after. Her stomach contents also makes time of death after 21:30 extremely unlikely, and Rudy (who has to be truthful about this) put the time of death at ca 21:20.

So when would Amanda and Raffaele be playing basketball (a game they didn't play) with Rudy, who they didn't know?

Rudy came over to sell them pot, or whatever, drugs, they took.

There has never been any evidence that Rudy dealt drugs.

They all went into Amanda's apartment. Meredith was there. Meredith was annoyed they were all in there and smoking pot and being loud. The boyfriend and Rudy harassed meredith back. And then Rudy stabbed Meredith. The boyfriend was present. I believe Amanda was in the other room like she said in her confession, hearing the screams. They left because they were scared and then amanda came back in the morning to mop up the blood. She went back to Rafael's and then they came back again and called police.

But where did she mop up the blood? There was never any evidence of cleaned-up blood. And the mop was tested and there was no blood on it.

I believe the reason she falsely pointed to the bar owner Patrick playing basketball there, is because she needed a black man in the basketball court to cover and switch for Rudy there

What is the functional difference in switching Patrick and Rudy if she's just going to keep herself on the scene and in the same role (as the inviter)? There would be absolutely no point to her doing so.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Also the mop to me points to Amanda's partial guilt. So the story is, she brought her mop over to the boyfriend's house, that had Meredith's blood on it,

The mop was tested. It didn't have any blood on it.

because that same night he had a leak under his sink and he needed a mop? Come on. What are the odds. So the mop and the email make her kind of guilty to me.

The faulty pipes were confirmed by multiple parties. And of the mop was used on the crime scene, why would it ever leave the apartment?

I agree that the mop and email are red flags, but the mop had no blood on it. However bleach does destroy blood evidence, and Sollecito's apartment smelled strongly of bleach.

That was just cop nonsense. Another cop said Amanda "smelled of sex". No evidence of anything being cleaned up (beyond the water spill) was ever found at Raffaele's apartment.

Because she said her boss Patrick was there. And she wrote this email confession after she left the interrogation like the next day. Come on who does that. You would not specifically name somebody else for a false confession.

She never wrote an "email confession", I don't know where this comes from.

Okay so apparently Amanda mopped the bathroom that morning because it was bloody.

The mop wasn't bloody.

And then she brought the mop to her boyfriend's. And when they got the mop later, it had no blood on it?

No, because it never had.

So she mopped a bloody bathroom floor and then there was no blood on the mop?

No, they didn't mop anything at the cottage, Amanda took the mop to Raffaele's where it mopped water, then the two of them took it back when going to check the cottage again.

Knowing how sensitive those tests are for blood? How did she clean it so well?

They didn't clean it well, there was never any blood on it. I don't know why you keep insisting that there was.

Either way I don't think there's any argument from either party, that she did clean up the bloody floor that morning, so the blood was on the mop at some point.

What? That is not true at all. No one but the cops have ever claimed Amanda cleaned up a bloody floor. Amanda has always denied cleaning anything up, and there's no evidence she or anyone else did.

 

[SMK777]

Okay so apparently Amanda mopped the bathroom that morning because it was bloody. And then she brought the mop to her boyfriend's. And when they got the mop later, it had no blood on it? So she mopped a bloody bathroom floor and then there was no blood on the mop? Knowing how sensitive those tests are for blood? How did she clean it so well? Either way I don't think there's any argument from either party, that she did clean up the bloody floor that morning, so the blood was on the mop at some point.

The only way it would be possible is if the mop had been bleached.

 

[SMK777]

At that point she had been questioned multiple times, spent most of her days with the police and some days not released until the middle of the night. I can see why she wanted to gather her thoughts and confide in others.



I say the opposite. She went home to shower and change for the trip, saw that things were off, called her roommates and went back with Raffaele, discovered the break in and called the police. I find that astonishingly normal.



At that point there were six other people in the tiny hallway. Raffaele had tried to break down the door earlier. Why would he attempt to do that if they knew and were hiding it?



Of course.



This is the gold standard of Occam's Razor - everything can be explained by Rudy acting alone, and there is no evidence of Amanda instigating or indeed having any contact with Rudy at all. So why add her? What part of the scene required staging?



Or Rudy could have worked for the Albanian mafia whose boss had been turned down by Meredith at the Halloween disco and wanted revenge.

My point is, there's no evidence at all for any of the above scenarios. That is my issue with this whole thing. It starts from the conclusion - Amanda is involved - and works backwards, hypothesizing scenarios where she was. Criminal Investigations should work the other way around, let the evidence lead to the conclusion. And if there's no evidence...

If you're correct on all, then the entirety of the original investigation and trial was completely without any merit whatsoever. It's very hard to accept that. I understand police can get things wrong, but this would have been a sinister conspiracy from start to finish.

 

[Officer Dibble]

What did I say that wasn't factual?

Okay so apparently Amanda mopped the bathroom that morning because it was bloody. And then she brought the mop to her boyfriend's. And when they got the mop later, it had no blood on it? So she mopped a bloody bathroom floor and then there was no blood on the mop? Knowing how sensitive those tests are for blood? How did she clean it so well? Either way I don't think there's any argument from either party, that she did clean up the bloody floor that morning, so the blood was on the mop at some point.

with bleach

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The only way it would be possible is if the mop had been bleached.

It was.

 

[minazoe]

I agree that the mop and email are red flags, but the mop had no blood on it. However bleach does destroy blood evidence, and Sollecito's apartment smelled strongly of bleach.

bingo. also as I have said before..who leaves a flooded floor to just sit while someone runs across town to get a mop?

no one..that's who. mOO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

with bleach

It was.

It wasn't.

[Napoleoni] recalled as well that a mop was seized which was kept inside the closet in the hallway in front of Amanda's room. On this mop nothing in particular was found.

bingo. also as I have said before..who leaves a flooded floor to just sit while someone runs across town to get a mop?

no one..that's who. mOO

She didn't run across town, I don't know where you got that from. Amanda went to her apartment the following day to shower and change, and took the mop with her as she walked back to Raffaele's. This was between 11 and 12 in the morning.