Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#9

[aa9511]

An innocent Amanda might very well be worried considering she had been in prison for over a week for a crime she didn't commit. That's the problem with parsing this sort of thing -- it can fit into either scenario depending on your perspective.

I don't see how that could fit into either scenario. If they were innocent, wouldn't the knife actually be a relief to them? Like, whew, okay they'll test it and realize there's nothing on it, it's not the murder weapon, then surely they'll let us out of here. Surely then they'll realize they've got this all wrong. That makes a lot of sense to me, in the innocence scenario.

 

[otto]

Nancy Grace just said "line of coke"....just struck me as odd....

She's got the lingo down!

 

[Monzoo]

I don't see how that could fit into either scenario. If they were innocent, wouldn't the knife actually be a relief to them? Like, whew, okay they'll test it and realize there's nothing on it, it's not the murder weapon, then surely they'll let us out of here. Surely then they'll realize they've got this all wrong. That makes a lot of sense to me, in the innocence scenario.

If I was in jail for I crime I didn't commit? I might be a little paranoid that I was being framed.

At that point, had AK and RS reconnected? They might even be blaming each other. Especially if the police told each of them that the other one was not backing up their alibi. Had Patrick been released yet? I don't believe so.

A week or two after the murder is when plenty of stuff -- now considered not true -- was flying around.

 

[aa9511]

If I was in jail for I crime I didn't commit? I might be a little paranoid that I was being framed.

At that point, had AK and RS reconnected? They might even be blaming each other. Especially if the police told each of them that the other one was not backing up their alibi. Had Patrick been released yet? I don't believe so.

A week or two after the murder is when plenty of stuff -- now considered not true -- was flying around.

Yes, it might not mean anything. It's just one of those things that caught my attention, is all.

It's just that, I mean, Amanda does not strike me as the "street-smart" kinda gal. Or someone who had been around a lot of corrupt people. Like, you know, "shady stuff," whatever that means.

She was not Black, she would not necessarily have a distrust for police. I should explain by that I mean, Blacks are sometimes targeted by police, which is why they have more distrust for them than Whites do. A White, suburban, college-going female probably wouldn't have any distrust for police (at the time, of course).

She had not been in-and-out with the law in the U.S., for her to have a distrust of legal systems as a whole.

Yes, she had been, in the innocence scenario, wrongfully imprisoned for a week. The police were saying stuff, she was confused. But would that necessarily lead her to believe that the police would go through some conspiracy to frame her, by placing some non-existant DNA on the knife? Or that Raffaele would frame her, why would he do that if they were innocent? Or that "someone else" would frame her? Or that there was some "conspiracy" going on.

It makes more sense that, if she wasn't quite sure what was going on with the people, she would actually be relieved that they were doing forensic tests on the knife, because that would be free of bias. Then everyone would know for sure that this was all some misunderstanding.

Why would she be all worried about the knife? They were at the house, the knife was at the house, they were just hanging out, they had nothing to do with the murder, and she knew that that knife was nowhere near Meredith. Why would she be worried?

The forensics on the knife, seems to me, would actually be a great relief to her, becaues it would be away from the bias of the police and everyone involved.

 

[otto]

Amanda's current appeal to the ECHR only deals with her conviction for Calunnia against Patrick Lumumba. I have not seen any arguments from her legal team yet, so I cannot comment on specifics.

Personally, I think that Calunnia should not be a criminal charge. I know that there are calls for judicial reform in Italy -- we will see if this is one of the proposed changes.

The EHRC cannot tell Italy to abolish a law.

 

[otto]

If I was in jail for I crime I didn't commit? I might be a little paranoid that I was being framed.

At that point, had AK and RS reconnected? They might even be blaming each other. Especially if the police told each of them that the other one was not backing up their alibi. Had Patrick been released yet? I don't believe so.

A week or two after the murder is when plenty of stuff -- now considered not true -- was flying around.

The phone conversation happened on November 10 (don't have a direct link for it anymore, as it was something I figured out from reading a few sources). If "I was there" was said in the same conversation, then Patrick was still in jail.

 

[Amber29]

Was he worried? Sort of but he seems keen to get the results back here.



Any thoughts on this? Guede is the virtual stranger he didn't know but is suppose to have helped rape and murder a girl in less than hour yet he describes him just like he was being described on TV.

Seems he's only calmer because his dad has assured him no blood was on it. Didn't stop him from creating the pricking Meredith lie.

Yes I do this line always stood out to me

" I saw father happy and smiling, but I am not 100% calm at the moment because I fear that he might invent strange things. "

Why would he think RG would invent strange things?

 

[otto]

Seems he's only calmer because his dad has assured him no blood was on it. Didn't stop him from creating the pricking Meredith lie.

Yes I do this line always stood out to me

" I saw father happy and smiling, but I am not 100% calm at the moment because I fear that he might invent strange things. "

Why would he think RG would invent strange things?

Knox had already invented strange things about Patrick. Clearly the possibility of Guede pointing fingers was on his mind. However, innocent people should not be imagining that someone will falsely implicate them for murder. I'm sure that Patrick was not sitting around questioning whether Guede would implicate him.

 

[Amber29]

Really??? That is from Sollecito's diary? If that doesn't sound like a guilty mind, nothing does. First he imagines that he will be falsely implicated? He concocts a story to explain why there may be evidence of Meredith on the knife ... and then he is worried about evidence being found on rags?

We have only discussed the possibility of using a mop to clean up some evidence. I wonder if rags were missing from the cottage.

Do you recall the story he told about Knox carrying a bag of clothing to or from his apartment? Perhaps that was the rags?

Yes RS really had issues with saying a little too much. It's no wonder he had issues with telling the load of rubbish.

 

[aa9511]

Seems he's only calmer because his dad has assured him no blood was on it. Didn't stop him from creating the pricking Meredith lie.

Yes I do this line always stood out to me

" I saw father happy and smiling, but I am not 100% calm at the moment because I fear that he might invent strange things. "

Why would he think RG would invent strange things?

:facepalm:

That line definately stood out to me too. Sooooo....they had nothing to do with it, they were at the house and doing who knows what.....then the police find the actual guy who did it.....and he's worried the guy will start telling stories? Wouldn't he be relieved?? That thank God they found the man and now I can get out of here! Woo-hoo!

Instead, he has very strange reaction.

They are strange, the both of them.

 

[Amber29]

From the attached pdf letter from Sollecito, on page 2 he states that they got stoned again at 8:30. I had seen the letter before, but had forgotten some of the contents. That would be the reference for why I knew that they were stoned throughout the evening, and that they did not smoke just one joint in the afternoon.

Yes I believe in RSs version they smoked at least 3 joints I thought.

Of course I think I've seen his book referenced as smoking much less.

I don't have his book but I can look into that.

 

[otto]

Yes RS really had issues with saying a little too much. It's no wonder he had issues with telling the load of rubbish.

I could never figure out why he mentioned that Knox was carrying a plastic bag with clothing to the cottage (since she was going to the cottage to shower an change), but in the context of "rags", it makes sense that she took rags from his apartment to the cottage on the morning of November 2, did a partial clean up, then carried the mop (perhaps the same bag of rags?) back to Sollecito's apartment (another remark that has never made sense). I suppose it's possible the mop vanished or was swapped with Sollecito's mop, or was always a bag of rags. Police said that Sollecito's apartment smelled of bleach when they arrived, so it could be that the rags and/or mop had been soaked in bleach.

 

[aa9511]

Really??? That is from Sollecito's diary? If that doesn't sound like a guilty mind, nothing does. First he imagines that he will be falsely implicated? He concocts a story to explain why there may be evidence of Meredith on the knife ... and then he is worried about evidence being found on rags?

We have only discussed the possibility of using a mop to clean up some evidence. I wonder if rags were missing from the cottage.

Do you recall the story he told about Knox carrying a bag of clothing to or from his apartment? Perhaps that was the rags?

bbm

He told a story about Amanda carrying a bag of clothing to or from his apartment??? OMG. Yes, I'm sure that was something murder-related, but I had not heard that before. Why else would he mention it? :facepalm:

I had already suspected that they used rags from RS's house and then cleaned them with bleach afterwards. IMO. I don't think they would have taken the chance of throwing them away somewhere and risk them being found. I think they wanted to control it themselves and clean it with bleach to remove all traces, so they wouldn't have to worry about....what if someday they are found?

I do not know if the investigators checked any rags in his closets or anything.

 

[Amber29]

:facepalm:

That line definately stood out to me too. Sooooo....they had nothing to do with it, they were at the house and doing who knows what.....then the police find the actual guy who did it.....and he's worried the guy will start telling stories? Wouldn't he be relieved?? That thank God they found the man and now I can get out of here! Woo-hoo!

Instead, he has very strange reaction.

They are strange, the both of them.

Yeh I don't understand the thoughts behind this. I mean if you do not know RG, why would you have these thoughts about him?

One would think he'd feel the way his father was feeling.

 

[otto]

Yes I believe in RSs version they smoked at least 3 joints I thought.

Of course I think I've seen his book referenced as smoking much less.

I don't have his book but I can look into that.

I knew that they were stoned throughout the evening, but when it was discussed a couple of months ago, there was some insistence that there was only one joint in the afternoon ... meaning that the pair couldn't have been stoned out of their minds at the time of the murder. I was unable to find a reference for smoking all day, but it is in Sollecito's letter linked upthread (pdf).

 

[otto]

bbm

He told a story about Amanda carrying a bag of clothing to or from his apartment??? OMG. Yes, I'm sure that was something murder-related, but I had not heard that before. Why else would he mention it? :facepalm:

I had already suspected that they used rags from RS's house and then cleaned them with bleach afterwards. IMO. I don't think they would have taken the chance of throwing them away somewhere and risk them being found. I think they wanted to control it themselves and clean it with bleach to remove all traces, so they wouldn't have to worry about....what if someday they are found?

I do not know if the investigators checked any rags in his closets or anything.

Now I'm going to have to find a link for it. It is somewhere. I believe it was Sollecito that said that Knox carried her clothes in a plastic bag when she went back to the cottage on November 2. Then Knox said she carried a mop to the apartment after her "shower". The mop was to clean up a water spill that occurred 16 hours earlier - according to Knox. It'll come to me, but if someone else comes across it, please link it. Thx

 

[aa9511]

From the attached pdf letter from Sollecito, on page 2 he states that they got stoned again at 8:30. I had seen the letter before, but had forgotten some of the contents. That would be the reference for why I knew that they were stoned throughout the evening, and that they did not smoke just one joint in the afternoon.

But Otto, doesn't it seem to you that both Amanda and RS frequently use the marijuana/hashish, whatever it was, as an excuse for their convenient "memory lapses" and "mental confusion" regarding what exactly they did that night? They constantly say, oh I can't remember because I had smoked a joint....everything is "unclear," I dont have a clear memory of the night.

I don't know. I mean, think about, if they never mentioned the joints, and they kept saying, Oh gosh, I don't remember, ah....what did we do that night? hmm...everything is unclear, I might have done this or I might have done that.....that makes no sense coming from a stable mind. But if they throw a few joints in there, oh, all of a sudden they have an excuse for all of that.

 

[aa9511]

I could never figure out why he mentioned that Knox was carrying a plastic bag with clothing to the cottage (since she was going to the cottage to shower an change), but in the context of "rags", it makes sense that she took rags from his apartment to the cottage on the morning of November 2, did a partial clean up, then carried the mop (perhaps the same bag of rags?) back to Sollecito's apartment (another remark that has never made sense). I suppose it's possible the mop vanished or was swapped with Sollecito's mop, or was always a bag of rags. Police said that Sollecito's apartment smelled of bleach when they arrived, so it could be that the rags and/or mop had been soaked in bleach.

Wait, so in their stories they have that Amanda walking to the house carrying a plastic bag, and back to RS's carrying a mop?

:facepalm::facepalm:

 

[aa9511]

Ok nite everyone, see you all in a few hours!

 

[otto]

Wait, so in their stories they have that Amanda walking to the house carrying a plastic bag, and back to RS's carrying a mop?

:facepalm::facepalm:

Knox mentioned carrying the mop to Sollecito's apartment to clean up the spill that allegedly happened the night before, while they were doing dishes. Sollecito mentioned the spill to his father during a phone call at about 8:30. Although the water would have evaporated 16 hours later, Knox claims that she carried the mop to the apartment to clean up the water.

I need to find the link about the plastic bag ... it's somewhere ... just have to remember where. I'm pretty sure that Sollecito said it.

If we add to this Sollecito's story about rags, then it certainly sounds like an awful lot of clean up references with innocent explanations.

I want to add a note that this is speculation ... trying to fit the puzzle pieces together ... it should not be consider as a fact that can be linked. To reference each piece that needs to be fit into the puzzle takes time in a six year old case. Trying to fit the puzzles pieces together ... noting more.