Annie

[countzero]

Casey changed sets of friends like we change underwear. If she was caught stealing from one or more of her current group she just moved on to another group. I would imagine that some of these people dumped Casey before she could steal their monehy...because of her lies. Like a true sociopath it didn't bother her to move from one group to another without looking back. Same thing with the guys she dated/slept with. She moved on pretty quick there too. If the guy dumped her she just latched on to the next one.

It didn't seem that much got to Casey except her mother. She stole from her grandparents more then once and it didn't faze her when gramma discovered the missing money. Most kids adore their grandmas but Casey treated her the same way she treated everyone.

I'd like to know how Lee turned out half way normal? I don't know a lot about Lee because he has stayed in the background but he seems pretty normal.

bbm:

Can't be too normal if he's going along with his parents stories and beliefs to me.

 

[lizzysf]

bbm:

Can't be too normal if he's going along with his parents stories and beliefs to me.

Lee, normal? I agree..no way. You have to look under the "game faces" on all these characters...
There is a shared illness going on amongst them.

 

[Tuffy]

Lee, normal? I agree..no way. You have to look under the "game faces" on all these characters...
There is a shared illness going on amongst them.

I'll agree, also. Lee is far from normal; very bizarre in my mind. I saw his weird display at the memorial for Caylee, read his interviews with LE, and his depos. His odd laughter when discussing the decomp smell convinces me that he did not turn out normal at all.

 

[lizzysf]

I'll agree, also. Lee is far from normal; very bizarre in my mind. I saw his weird display at the memorial for Caylee, read his interviews with LE, and his depos. His odd laughter when discussing the decomp smell convinces me that he did not turn out normal at all.

He's #1 in the family with less honed skills in masking his dysfunction, George being #2 less skilled.. and Casey and Cindy get 5 stars for acting abilities. If you didn't know what was really going on underneath, you'd think they were a well adjusted family with their act together.

 

[Daylight/1257]

He's #1 in the family with less honed skills in masking his dysfunction, George being #2 less skilled.. and Casey and Cindy get 5 stars for acting abilities. If you didn't know what was really going on underneath, you'd think they were a well adjusted family with their act together.

Excellent post! His "performance" at the memorial was spooky weird!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Casey changed sets of friends like we change underwear. If she was caught stealing from one or more of her current group she just moved on to another group. I would imagine that some of these people dumped Casey before she could steal their monehy...because of her lies. Like a true sociopath it didn't bother her to move from one group to another without looking back. Same thing with the guys she dated/slept with. She moved on pretty quick there too. If the guy dumped her she just latched on to the next one.

It didn't seem that much got to Casey except her mother. She stole from her grandparents more then once and it didn't faze her when gramma discovered the missing money. Most kids adore their grandmas but Casey treated her the same way she treated everyone.

I'd like to know how Lee turned out half way normal? I don't know a lot about Lee because he has stayed in the background but he seems pretty normal.

Lee? Normal?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Excellent post! His "performance" at the memorial was spooky weird!

I suspect he was doing as instructed. I think Lee helps his mom out quite a bit in her sick games.

 

[The World According]

I am getting so much food for thought on this thread. Chiquita71, your sharing is greatly appreciated, and I'm sorry your mother did a number on all her kids.

Earlier, I said Casey was and is a lost cause. I started to wonder if there was a way to change her development, a way to stop the crime from happening. The only way I can see that might have changed the course of events was if she didn't keep the baby, or if she had managed to move away from her family, but even then, I have doubts she would have been a better person.

I agree with lizzysf that Annie and Casey just had a shallow, fun type of friendship. Annie would not have been able to help Casey much, IMO. Now, Cindy is another story.

Instead of faking a religious conversion to fit in, what if she did marry Jessie and really , truly let Jesus Christ in to her life? He helped George W. Bush go from being a hopeless alcoholic ( his words, not mine) to become the President of the US and leader of the free world. He helped Giligan get off the Island, LOL!!!!

 

[Just Jayla]

During one of the initial jail house interviews Cindy told Casey that someone said that she (Cindy) had been in a mental hospital. I'm paraphrasing, I can't remember the exact words she said. Cindy said the person's name and asked Casey if she knew her, Casey said no. At that time, I didn't know Kio's relationship with Casey but I think that was the name Cindy was trying to use but she butchered the name. In any event, putting it together, I think Casey told Kio that Cindy was crazy and put in an institution. If this is true, the subject of 'institutions' seems to be a running theme in Casey's bag of lies.

Whatever Casey tells anyone, I take with a grain of salt. If she truly did ask for help then shame on Cindy for not taking the appropriate action (if not for Casey, then for Caylee).

Yep, that would be "Tia Torres," and I agree with you that this is who CA was talking about.

 

[Just Jayla]

Instead of faking a religious conversion to fit in, what if she did marry Jessie and really , truly let Jesus Christ in to her life? He helped George W. Bush go from being a hopeless alcoholic ( his words, not mine) to become the President of the US and leader of the free world. He helped Giligan get off the Island, LOL!!!!

Jesus may save her soul yet-she might be in jail or it might be at St. Peter's feet (my preference for her), but she'll get another chance at some point.

 

[Curious Me]

What evil she let grow in her thoughts to the point of murder! I think she was/is totally disengaged from God and her soul, and I'm not sure she could ever humble herself to ask for forgiveness. But I do know of some hardened convicts eventually finding their spirituality and following a different path. As Jewel would ask - Whose gonna save your soul?

 

[Just Jayla]

Lee? Normal?

Lee is like a functioning alcoholic. There's a disease there, but he does well in keeping his job, paying his bills (presumably) having a steady relationship with Mallory, etc.

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

First I want to say that ITA with everyone's posts here. I think we can all see this was/is a family dynamic. Children do not grow up in a vacuum.

On the subject of Lee. My mother did not treat my brother(who is also the youngest)the same way she treated me and my sister. He is a boy so I am sure she did not see him as such an extension of herself, so he got some breaks. She did not hit my brother, nor curse and rage at him. Her "abuse" of him came in more subtle ways.

My brother knows what my mother did to my sister and me, he knows my sister has not spoken to the family for over a decade. He knows that I have little to no contact with my mother-yet he still defends our mother to a degree. Even if his defending her is only his non defense of us. He asked me years ago, "why can't you just get along with mom? why can't you just do what she says?"

When I left home because of my mother's cruelty, he was very upset with me-and still teen-age, so I understand that it was hard for him to understand. But, when he was twenty-he came to live with my husband and me because my mother had turned her worse self on him. When he got married my mother gave him nothing. It was my brother's wife's mother who gave them the gifts and shower, etc. She was not happy in his choice to be married and she let him know.

All of this hurt my brother, and he acknowledges that I have been a loving a good sister but it does not stop him from falling into treating me like he is on my mother's side. I do not totally understand this, except that is his mother...

I like to think my brother is a good guy, he can be sometimes-but he is weird in a passive aggressive way that is so much like my mom. After he moved out of my place and he and his wife had a home of their home-my husband and I would come to visit-he did not have chairs for us to sit on. We came over every Sunday for a few years and he sat in his lazy-boy and let us sit on the floor or sometimes there was a folding chair.

Blah, blah, blah...I project my family onto the Anthony's-obviously. Maybe I have them all wrong-I don't really know them-but they seem so familiar to me because of my family. My sister has had several abortions and was not shy about that fact. I know she wanted to let my mother know-to spite her.

The word "spite" is one of my mother's favorites. "You did that to spite me" she would say even when we were very little. My mother began calling my sister a "bI#ch" before she was ten. One day, I was driving in the car and started crying so hard I was slobbering and realized that when I thought of my sister as a little girl-and then thought about what she had "become" I had feelings akin to the idea that my mother had "killed" my little sister. There was a time when my sister had been a sweet little girl. Now, she is very much like Casey.

And, if you spoke to my mother about all of this she would say that she did everything a mother could do to love her children. It is we who are ungrateful for "all she has done for us."

As far as Annie goes: she said that she knew Casey was a liar, and that she stopped being friends with her because she did not like to be "betrayed" and I think she went to Cindy...to do Cindy's bidding...so she could get back at Casey and "betray" her. I do not have a high opinion of Annie.

ETA: CuriousMe said "she is disengaged from her soul" and that comes the closest to what I think my mother did to my sister. I can have more sympathy for Casey than Cindy because I think both my sister and Casey were very sensitive when they were younger and I think an unloving mother can do this to a child. Again, I don't really know Casey-I only know that with the way Cindy has behaved during this case...would you want her to be your mother? Would you let Cindy raise your child? Caylee was a sweet baby...and maybe Casey was too. (And, yes-Casey is responsible for her actions and what she did to Caylee is unimaginable and I do blame her very much too.)

...jmo...

 

[MissJames]

Hello WS

First I want to say that ITA with everyone's posts here. I think we can all see this was/is a family dynamic. Children do not grow up in a vacuum.

On the subject of Lee. My mother did not treat my brother(who is also the youngest)the same way she treated me and my sister. He is a boy so I am sure she did not see him as such an extension of herself, so he got some breaks. She did not hit my brother, nor curse and rage at him. Her "abuse" of him came in more subtle ways.

My brother knows what my mother did to my sister and me, he knows my sister has not spoken to the family for over a decade. He knows that I have little to no contact with my mother-yet he still defends our mother to a degree. Even if his defending her is only his non defense of us. He asked me years ago, "why can't you just get along with mom? why can't you just do what she says?"

When I left home because of my mother's cruelty, he was very upset with me-and still teen-age, so I understand that it was hard for him to understand. But, when he was twenty-he came to live with my husband and me because my mother had turned her worse self on him. When he got married my mother gave him nothing. It was my brother's wife's mother who gave them the gifts and shower, etc. She was not happy in his choice to be married and she let him know.

All of this hurt my brother, and he acknowledges that I have been a loving a good sister but it does not stop him from falling into treating me like he is on my mother's side. I do not totally understand this, except that is his mother...

I like to think my brother is a good guy, he can be sometimes-but he is weird in a passive aggressive way that is so much like my mom. After he moved out of my place and he and his wife had a home of their home-my husband and I would come to visit-he did not have chairs for us to sit on. We came over every Sunday for a few years and he sat in his lazy-boy and let us sit on the floor or sometimes there was a folding chair.

Blah, blah, blah...I project my family onto the Anthony's-obviously. Maybe I have them all wrong-I don't really know them-but they seem so familiar to me because of my family. My sister has had several abortions and was not shy about that fact. I know she wanted to let my mother know-to spite her.

The word "spite" is one of my mother's favorites. "You did that to spite me" she would say even when we were very little. My mother began calling my sister a "bI#ch" before she was ten. One day, I was driving in the car and started crying so hard I was slobbering and realized that when I thought of my sister as a little girl-and then thought about what she had "become" I had feelings akin to the idea that my mother had "killed" my little sister. There was a time when my sister had been a sweet little girl. Now, she is very much like Casey.

And, if you spoke to my mother about all of this she would say that she did everything a mother could do to love her children. It is we who are ungrateful for "all she has done for us."

As far as Annie goes: she said that she knew Casey was a liar, and that she stopped being friends with her because she did not like to be "betrayed" and I think she went to Cindy...to do Cindy's bidding...so she could get back at Casey and "betray" her. I do not have a high opinion of Annie.

ETA: CuriousMe said "she is disengaged from her soul" and that comes the closest to what I think my mother did to my sister. I can have more sympathy for Casey than Cindy because I think both my sister and Casey were very sensitive when they were younger and I think an unloving mother can do this to a child. Again, I don't really know Casey-I only know that with the way Cindy has behaved during this case...would you want her to be your mother? Would you let Cindy raise your child? Caylee was a sweet baby...and maybe Casey was too. (And, yes-Casey is responsible for her actions and what she did to Caylee is unimaginable and I do blame her very much too.)

...jmo...

Wow,Chiquita,
there is so much I want to say and can't find the words. You have completely enlightened me.I am so sorry it came at your expense and that of your sister.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hello WS

First I want to say that ITA with everyone's posts here. I think we can all see this was/is a family dynamic. Children do not grow up in a vacuum.

On the subject of Lee. My mother did not treat my brother(who is also the youngest)the same way she treated me and my sister. He is a boy so I am sure she did not see him as such an extension of herself, so he got some breaks. She did not hit my brother, nor curse and rage at him. Her "abuse" of him came in more subtle ways.

My brother knows what my mother did to my sister and me, he knows my sister has not spoken to the family for over a decade. He knows that I have little to no contact with my mother-yet he still defends our mother to a degree. Even if his defending her is only his non defense of us. He asked me years ago, "why can't you just get along with mom? why can't you just do what she says?"

When I left home because of my mother's cruelty, he was very upset with me-and still teen-age, so I understand that it was hard for him to understand. But, when he was twenty-he came to live with my husband and me because my mother had turned her worse self on him. When he got married my mother gave him nothing. It was my brother's wife's mother who gave them the gifts and shower, etc. She was not happy in his choice to be married and she let him know.

All of this hurt my brother, and he acknowledges that I have been a loving a good sister but it does not stop him from falling into treating me like he is on my mother's side. I do not totally understand this, except that is his mother...

I like to think my brother is a good guy, he can be sometimes-but he is weird in a passive aggressive way that is so much like my mom. After he moved out of my place and he and his wife had a home of their home-my husband and I would come to visit-he did not have chairs for us to sit on. We came over every Sunday for a few years and he sat in his lazy-boy and let us sit on the floor or sometimes there was a folding chair.

Blah, blah, blah...I project my family onto the Anthony's-obviously. Maybe I have them all wrong-I don't really know them-but they seem so familiar to me because of my family. My sister has had several abortions and was not shy about that fact. I know she wanted to let my mother know-to spite her.

The word "spite" is one of my mother's favorites. "You did that to spite me" she would say even when we were very little. My mother began calling my sister a "bI#ch" before she was ten. One day, I was driving in the car and started crying so hard I was slobbering and realized that when I thought of my sister as a little girl-and then thought about what she had "become" I had feelings akin to the idea that my mother had "killed" my little sister. There was a time when my sister had been a sweet little girl. Now, she is very much like Casey.

And, if you spoke to my mother about all of this she would say that she did everything a mother could do to love her children. It is we who are ungrateful for "all she has done for us."

As far as Annie goes: she said that she knew Casey was a liar, and that she stopped being friends with her because she did not like to be "betrayed" and I think she went to Cindy...to do Cindy's bidding...so she could get back at Casey and "betray" her. I do not have a high opinion of Annie.

ETA: CuriousMe said "she is disengaged from her soul" and that comes the closest to what I think my mother did to my sister. I can have more sympathy for Casey than Cindy because I think both my sister and Casey were very sensitive when they were younger and I think an unloving mother can do this to a child. Again, I don't really know Casey-I only know that with the way Cindy has behaved during this case...would you want her to be your mother? Would you let Cindy raise your child? Caylee was a sweet baby...and maybe Casey was too. (And, yes-Casey is responsible for her actions and what she did to Caylee is unimaginable and I do blame her very much too.)

...jmo...

:hug:

I want so badly to respond to this post with stories of my own mom, my own family, so much like yours. But I don't want the annie thread to go poof and I know myself, I go so off topic.. when I get started I can't stop (In that way, I am very much like my mother). But I totally understand what your talking about.. I was just like your sister up until only a few short years ago.. and I still make excuses for my mothers behavior. I did it yesterday with my son and husband and they just look at me like I'm crazy for standing up for her.

:hug:

 

[Curious Me]

I can feel this long standing pain your mother has caused her children, Chiquita71.

Cindy definitely has some kind of mixed personality disorder. She made a lot of mistakes with Casey especially keeping her under her thumb. I don't mean to make light of Cindy's role, but in Cindy's mind she was helping, providing, etc., There's no perfect parents, and some do have personality disorders.

Was Casey so weak, so controlled, or dumb she needs to be excused for her decision to harm Caylee because Cindy wasn't a good parent? No, Casey was certainly capable of standing up to her mother. I imagine we will be asked to feel pity for Casey because her mother made it so hard on her that she had to kill Caylee.


It is not Annie's fault that her fun friend Casey decided to do away with Caylee. Annie had distanced herself from Casey because she proved to be a liar, and not a good friend. What else could Annie have done? Annie isn't even protecting Casey when she says "She must have had help." She does sound like she's aligning herself with Cindy tho' which would be a big mistake. I hope Annie lets it all hang out and spills all that she knows at the time of trial.

Casey is on trial for her own decision to harm Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm still confused about Annie's claim that she had distanced herself from KC as she visited her twice while KC was out on house arrest.

Add to that, in Lee's depo, he explained how on July 3 when CA called him to go look/find KC, he made phone calls to both Annie and Lauren inquiring if they knew where he could find KC. Why would he call Annie if she had not been hanging out with KC in recent months?

I'm not trying to insist that AD is involved but, it looks like she is in some way imo. Little things just don't fit with the claim that "we were friends in passing" for months prior to Caylee's disappearance.

 

[essies]

I'm still confused about Annie's claim that she had distanced herself from KC as she visited her twice while KC was out on house arrest.

Add to that, in Lee's depo, he explained how on July 3 when CA called him to go look/find KC, he made phone calls to both Annie and Lauren inquiring if they knew where he could find KC. Why would he call Annie if she had not been hanging out with KC in recent months?

I'm not trying to insist that AD is involved but, it looks like she is in some way imo. Little things just don't fit with the claim that "we were friends in passing" for months prior to Caylee's disappearance.

I think that Lee called Annie because he hadn't been keeping up with KC's life recently-perhaps he was trying to distance himself from the family only to be pulled back in. Neither Lee nor G&C knew about her new friends.
I think Annie visiting KC was purely out of wanting to find out how she herself was being tied into the plot. If she truly cared about Caylee she would have been more persistent with questions about Caylee to both C&KC! IMO she was was looking to cover her own a$$!

 

[lizzysf]

I think that Lee called Annie because he hadn't been keeping up with KC's life recently-perhaps he was trying to distance himself from the family only to be pulled back in. Neither Lee nor G&C knew about her new friends.
I think Annie visiting KC was purely out of wanting to find out how she herself was being tied into the plot. If she truly cared about Caylee she would have been more persistent with questions about Caylee to both C&KC! IMO she was was looking to cover her own a$$!

I agree.. her relationship with Casey was shallow at best.. Annie was just being an ambulance chaser and a Lookyloo, imo.
Drawn to the drama.

 

[lizzybeth]

One of the biggest issues with people like Cindy is that they dismiss, demean and devalue others feelings, opinions and emotions. There are no boundaries- they tell their children what they should or shouldn't feel based on what they themselves feel (in their head the child is an extention of them). The child of a parent like this often grows up unable to trust their feelings. They have been taught their entire lives that what they feel is not appropriate. They are mocked for sharing feelings of fear, sadness or loneliness with the parent so they drop the issue and pretend it's no big deal because they are told it is no big deal.

So, to me, I do not have a hard time thinking Casey asked for help but when she spoke with her mother about it her mother dismissed her feelings so she just dropped it.

Seems there are a lot of us out there with a mother like this. When a mother has complete control of their child (like Cindy did Casey) no one else wants to step up to them and try to help the child. Casey probably really did think that Cindy had helped her with her problem, or else she thought why bother reaching out to someone like Annie (after talking with Cindy) because her mother was always going to win.