Another Person of interest - HOW?

[BBB167893]

That assumes Pam knew.

 

[DeeDee249]

SD, you don't think Pam knew? Certainly she knew afterwards, right? I mean, she'd have to have been told what to remove from the house and know why. She also lied about what she took, stating that it was only clothes for the funeral. We know that a local shop donated the family's funeral clothes anyway, and a dress for JBR can be carried out on a hanger on one arm.

 

[Ames]

That assumes Pam knew.

That is true...I guess that just because she knew WHAT she was taking from the home, doesn't mean that she knew WHY. But, she may have had her suspicions.

 

[BBB167893]

SD, you don't think Pam knew? Certainly she knew afterwards, right? I mean, she'd have to have been told what to remove from the house and know why. She also lied about what she took, stating that it was only clothes for the funeral. We know that a local shop donated the family's funeral clothes anyway, and a dress for JBR can be carried out on a hanger on one arm.

She may have had inklings, but I doubt she gave them a second thought. And she could have lied in good faith.

 

[DeeDee249]

She may have had inklings, but I doubt she gave them a second thought. And she could have lied in good faith.

Not that its funny, but "lied in good faith" seems like an oxymoron. Lied to protect a sister, sure. But if you had an inkling that sister killed (or knew who killed) your beloved niece, would you still lie? I guess it'd depend how much you had to gain or lose by lying.

 

[UKGuy]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying she caught him in anything. I'm saying that JB may have let it slip that night and Patsy freaked.

And even if she were dealing with unresolved anger at her childhood, she may still have put JB in those pageants as a way to finally win her mother's love.

Like I said, to a dark place this line of thought will carry us.

SuperDave,
I tried to cover both options. So Patsy prepares some pineapple for JonBenet they all snack together, then a little later JonBenet reveals to Patsy her secret so Patsy whacks her or grabs her shirt and starts to choke her?

It might have happened that way but its not a version of events I find compelling.

I prefer either John whacking JonBenet for refusing to do whatever, or Patsy whacking JonBenet for exactly the same reason. Toilet Rage is low on my list.

And even if she were dealing with unresolved anger at her childhood, she may still have put JB in those pageants as a way to finally win her mother's love.

Nedra obviously encouraged her to have JonBenet join the pageant circuit. Wwinning love, or just doing what seems natural since it helped you, seems a pretty powerful combination.

Like I said, to a dark place this line of thought will carry us.

The dark place might be where an emotional dynamic is played out between father and daughter with the pageant role facilitating this. Don't forget Don Paugh involved himself in JonBenet's public activities. So it may not be simply Nedra's love that is being sought?

 

[UKGuy]

I have an idea about that: she wanted her princess to be as spectacular in death as she was in life, but just spitballing.

SuperDave,
So she garroted her, dressed her in size-12 panties, and urine-stained longjohns, wrapped her in blankets and dumped her in a darkened cellar, somehow I reckon not.

The wine-cellar crime-scene is staging its part of a stepwise refinement process that probably started with John faking some means of entry e.g. the broken window.

Just why would a mother who had just killed her daughter accidentally, stage a homicide and mask acute molestation?

That was intended to be rhetorical, it should be obvious Patsy either never knew about the acute molestation or was working around it.

The big question for all the PDI people and doubters is did Patsy know that someone had previously molested JonBenet? Did she only find out at the interview where she was told the molestation was chronic, if I had been Patsy I reckon I could think up a couple of direct suspects pretty quickly.

You see she lied on numerous occassions when questioned on her version of events, and this is after her knowing about the chronic molestation.


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[UKGuy]

Certainly the image of tiny JBR in her white coffin, pageant dress and tiara, full make-up, blonde curls shining once again (what a difference from just a week or do earlier- the autopsy photos showing the matted hair, pale skin, and awful ligature marks) combined with the world-wide coverage and TV camera rolling makes a spectacular death a reality.

As far as any evidence that was never found - panties, cord, roll of tape, etc. Let's put Aunt P under some truth serum- we'll find it all.

DeeDee249,
Now if JonBenet had been discovered dead and garroted whilst wearing some kind of pageant outfit, what then?

 

[LI_Mom]

Toltec, I understand what you mean, but although children of that age (9-10ish) prefer to spend their time with their own sex, (that phase lasts just a few years), kids of that age, especially boys, are very interested in sex. There has always been a sexual curiosity between siblings of the opposite sex, and sexual exploration is not unusual. I can well imagine parents of an older boy (say, 9-10) who was found to be "exploring" his little sister (say, 6) might very well tell him about "incest" or even point out the definition in a dictionary.
HEY! Didn't that very thing happen? Yes, I think it did.

Exactly what I was going to say.

And as horrible as it sounds..... Patsy presented JB in a highly sexualized way for her pageants & I imagine she did a whole lot of practicing & preening at home where Burke & maybe his friends might have seen.

It's not hard to imagine what thoughts could go through young boys' minds when they see a little girl prancing around in makeup & clothes suited for an adult? Even if Burke looked & ONLY saw a bratty little sister.... a friend doesn't have that perspective.... it's possible that when an outsider comments about JB, it makes Burke look at her in a different way.

Sorry but some of those photos of JB are just shy of child , imo. Truly disgusting.

I can definitely see Burke getting curious with JB. And I can definitely see Patsy catching them & going crazy.... lashing out with a golf club (or something else) at Burke in anger to scare him & missing.... hitting JB totally by accident.

IMO, this easily explains why we have Patsy so frantic she doesn't call 911 to get an ambulance..... she has BOTH kids involved.... she wants to protect Burke AND her lifestyle.

Burke is sent upstairs...... and the coverup begins.

Burke comes down in the morning & says "what did you find?" because he has no idea what was done AFTER he was sent upstairs AND he might also be nervous because he left something else in the basement that they never noticed the night before? He almost sounds like HE'S afraid of getting into trouble.... his knife? Something else?

 

[LI_Mom]

SD, you don't think Pam knew? Certainly she knew afterwards, right? I mean, she'd have to have been told what to remove from the house and know why. She also lied about what she took, stating that it was only clothes for the funeral. We know that a local shop donated the family's funeral clothes anyway, and a dress for JBR can be carried out on a hanger on one arm.

Didn't she take John's Golf Club Bag?

How easy it is to place a small pair of panties, a piece of a paintbrush, the roll from the tape, and left over rope IF there was actually any left over in the bottom of the bag? With the clubs in the bag, nobody would notice a thing unless they emptied the bag to inspect the bottom.

By the way..... is it definitely duct tape that was used and not some other type of tape?

I was wondering if it could have been black tape taken from the baseball bat handle?

 

[LI_Mom]

What I meant was that it wouldn't do to have a pageant princess killed in an ordinary, garden-variety domestic incident. She deserved better. A child beauty queen killed in her own home by a pedophile monster? How cool is that!

Just spitballing.

Almost as cool as Marilyn Monroe!

But here we go one step better.... her tombstone has Christmas Day as the d.o.d.

 

[DeeDee249]

Didn't she take John's Golf Club Bag?

How easy it is to place a small pair of panties, a piece of a paintbrush, the roll from the tape, and left over rope IF there was actually any left over in the bottom of the bag? With the clubs in the bag, nobody would notice a thing unless they emptied the bag to inspect the bottom.

By the way..... is it definitely duct tape that was used and not some other type of tape?

I was wondering if it could have been black tape taken from the baseball bat handle?

It was duct tape. There was a particular type and color sold at 2 paces in Boulder- one of them was McGuckin's Hardware, where PR had shopped just a few weeks before, purchasing items costing the exact amount to the penny as the nylon cord used in the garrote and a roll of the exact type of duct tape.

 

[Ames]

It was duct tape. There was a particular type and color sold at 2 paces in Boulder- one of them was McGuckin's Hardware, where PR had shopped just a few weeks before, purchasing items costing the exact amount to the penny as the nylon cord used in the garrote and a roll of the exact type of duct tape.

Holdon wants us to believe that the SFF shopped at McGuckin's...and bought those supplies.

 

[Toltec]

8 year-olds are different from almost 10 year-olds. 8 year-old boys are sexually curious and tend to play doctor at that age....but by age 10 they are not the least bit interested in the opposite sex. Don't get me wrong...10 year-olds do develop crushes on girls but rarely do they attempt to kiss a girl let alone touch one.

I can see Burke striking JonBenet in a fit of rage....but I don't know about the molestation.

 

[DeeDee249]

8 year-olds are different from almost 10 year-olds. 8 year-old boys are sexually curious and tend to play doctor at that age....but by age 10 they are not the least bit interested in the opposite sex. Don't get me wrong...10 year-olds do develop crushes on girls but rarely do they attempt to kiss a girl let alone touch one.

I can see Burke striking JonBenet in a fit of rage....but I don't know about the molestation.

Yes, "mushy" romantic stuff would make most 10-year-old boys go "Yuck". But sex play is another matter. "Show me yours and I'll show you mine", those kinds of things. Boys that age do masturbate. Ask any doctor. It sometimes starts even younger. I don't know if you raised young boys, but I find that many women do not like to think of even their high-school sons having any sexual activity. I even know one or two woman who insist that their college-age sons are "too busy" for interest in sex. I can't rule out BR as a possible molester of JBR.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, "mushy" romantic stuff would make most 10-year-old boys go "Yuck". But sex play is another matter. "Show me yours and I'll show you mine", those kinds of things. Boys that age do masturbate. Ask any doctor. It sometimes starts even younger. I don't know if you raised young boys, but I find that many women do not like to think of even their high-school sons having any sexual activity. I even know one or two woman who insist that their college-age sons are "too busy" for interest in sex. I can't rule out BR as a possible molester of JBR.

DeeDee249,
Do you mean Burke molesting in the adult sense of exploitation or something less sinister?

Patently Burke may have molested JonBenet and he may have whacked her and killed her, but why did he need to? That he and JonBenet shared beds was no secret, that they argued as brother and sister do was also no secret, so I do not see any real motive for killing JonBenet. Also the same argument applies here as it does to the PDI, why was medical assistance denied to JonBenet? Not unless you want to speculate that at the age of ten Burke was a psychopath?

a BDI is near last on my list of theories. Which go like this: JDI, then JDI and PDI e.g. collusion, then PDI and lastly BDI, and last of all ERDI, that is extended family member did it?


.

 

[sandraladeda]

DeeDee249,
<snipped>

a BDI is near last on my list of theories. Which go like this: JDI, then JDI and PDI e.g. collusion, then PDI and lastly BDI, and last of all ERDI, that is extended family member did it?


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I totally agree with your "hierarchy" of likely scenarios, with JR as killer, and PR as accomplice in the coverup.

BR as perp is out there, imo.

 

[TinaD]

I agree, but I can accept a scenario of JR as perp, telling PR that Burke did it to enlist her help in the coverup.

 

[Tadpole12]

move post to DNA thread

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,
Do you mean Burke molesting in the adult sense of exploitation or something less sinister?

Patently Burke may have molested JonBenet and he may have whacked her and killed her, but why did he need to? That he and JonBenet shared beds was no secret, that they argued as brother and sister do was also no secret, so I do not see any real motive for killing JonBenet. Also the same argument applies here as it does to the PDI, why was medical assistance denied to JonBenet? Not unless you want to speculate that at the age of ten Burke was a psychopath?

a BDI is near last on my list of theories. Which go like this: JDI, then JDI and PDI e.g. collusion, then PDI and lastly BDI, and last of all ERDI, that is extended family member did it?


.

I mean something far less sinister. Not even adult- type exploration. Kid stuff. He didn't NEED to kill her. I am not saying it was even intentional. But the motive no matter who killed her may have been to keep her from telling about the abuse.
I am by no means committed to this theory. Nor am I adamantly BDI. I consider any and all of the surviving Rs potential perps, including extended family.
My line-up goes like this: PDI (accidentally) with coverup help from JR, JR (with coverup help from PR - this is much more difficult for me), BDI (accidentally), BDI & JAR together (molestation with head bash to stop her screaming), JAR and unknown male college buddy, Granpa P.
With all of them, the only constant is I firmly believe PR wrote the note. No waffling there. And I really can only imagine her covering up to help protect her son. HER son.