AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

[sorrell skye]

Yes. I actually think it is unlikely that he would've molested little girls and cheated if not for his background. But you're missing a huge aspect of that background. It's not just about being repressed sexually and having every act and thought controlled. Josh was raised in crazy-making dichotomous culture that is at once extremely repressive of any sexuality outside hetero marriage, including masturbation, looking with any kind of lust at anyone, discussing sex or the body with anyone your own age, seeing anyone besides yourself and babies naked, and even thinking any type of sexual thought when not married (young women are instructed not to even dream about romance or a future mate but to instead be a satsified stay at home daughter until God suddenly drops a mate into her lap - -through a mating arranged by her father), but which is also super, incredibly sex obsessed.

This is culture is hyper aware and obsessed with sex. Temptation, "defrauding" women, "unnatural" sex (gays), and the joys and constant discussion, insinuations and even demonstrations of hetero married sexuality (i.e. The Duggars constantly making out in front of their kids and referencing what they do in the bedroom "hey hey hey!" and "you don't get to do this until your married!") are major obsessive focuses of the culture.

And that's an incredible toxic brew- obsession and repression.

But the key element that when added makes for an even more incredibly toxic environment that virtually guarantees a high level of sexual abuse and dysfunction at all levels is the gender stratification. And the utter patriarchal domination. Women must submit to men. All are taught that the body cannot be trusted, that women and children's bodies are not their own, that men have a direct line from God and are thus "headships" of their wives and children, including adult unmarried daughters and that women are utterly at fault when their headship does something wrong including adultery, child abuse, sexual molestation, gay sex romps and domestic violence.

So imagine a boy being raised in that? Being inundated with sex, told he must repress his sexuality but also told that men control women and children's bodies and sexuality and are above women.

It certainly doesn't make me feel Josh is not to blame. Despite the above, he had choice. I think he is a selfish creep and has definite predatory leanings that he acted on as a teen. But I am agreeing with Scarlett that the culture and the parents bear some of the blame. The incidences of this kind of behavior are higher in cultures like this.

BBM

Gitana1: "So imagine a boy being raised in that? Being inundated with sex, told he must repress his sexuality but also told that men control women and children's bodies and sexuality and are above women"

This is the culture that many boys/men and girls/women live every single day of their lives - even those not born into or raised in the Quiverfull Movement.

This is the misogynist culture that girls/women experience every day in this country.

A culture that tells girls/women that they do not have power over their own bodies or their own sexuality. A culture that tells girls/women that men have control over their bodies, their sexuality, and their reproductive rights.

This misogynist ideology is not confined to the Quiverfull Movement - it permeates mainstream American society, despite laws that allegedly protect girls and women.

The environment that Josh Duggar grew up in is an extreme example of a repressive subculture, but it exemplifies the macro-culture wherein the male is superior to the subordinate female.

 

[sorrell skye]

BBM

MyBelle: "Having no education or skills is her fault'"

How is having no education or skills Anna's fault? If she was raised to believe that her only life options are to marry, bear children, and be a homemaker - how is her lack of education "her fault"???

IMO, this is the same archaic attitude that condemns women in domestic violence situations when the question is asked "Why doesn't she just leave?"

I think these Quiverfull women need a similar support network to assist them in leaving that some folks are providing for the Amish.

afaik, the woman is not a victim of domestic violence.

She is part of a family paid to be on television and certainly has access to the outside world and to the educational opportunities available to all women.

JMO

BBM

When a girl is born into and raised in a cult that only values the childbearing abilities of a female, when they are not taught from a young age that they have the same educational opportunities available to all women - and not only taught, but actually witness their female role models (mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, etc.) pursuing higher education and finding employment outside the home - the only option they can envision for themselves is to be a wife and mother. That's what they've been taught their entire lives and that's the only option they can envision for themselves - to be dependent upon a man.

There is a psychological impact of being told their entire lives that their only goal in life is to marry and procreate, and that their position in life is subordinate to any other male.

 

[flourish]

BBM

When a girl is born into and raised in a cult that only values the childbearing abilities of a female, when they are not taught from a young age that they have the same educational opportunities available to all women - and not only taught, but actually witness their female role models (mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, etc.) pursuing higher education and finding employment outside the home - the only option they can envision for themselves is to be a wife and mother. That's what they've been taught their entire lives and that's the only option they can envision for themselves - to be dependent upon a man.

There is a psychological impact of being told their entire lives that their only goal in life is to marry and procreate, and that their position in life is subordinate to any other male.

Yep! My childhood bank had three compartments, and were produced by the (not quiverfull but still makes my point) church. One section was labeled "tithing," and 10% of my "income" (read allowance) was to go in there. Another 10% was for the "mission fund" compartment, while the remainder went into the "spending" section.

College fund? What college fund?

And I was "brainwash lite" compared to some folks.


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[sorrell skye]

Yes.


One cannot aspire to that which one does not know exists.


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It's impossible to aspire to that which one does not knows exists.

One of the tactics of those who wish to hold a captive hostage: to convince them that freedom is not only an illusion, but that freedom is also a sin.

 

[1&2&3]

As noted above the girls are raised to be stay at home moms. The thought of going outside of the home to seek education or employment is not in their vocabulary. And even if a girl was to have that desire, the boys are raised to be the head of the house which in their belief is in control of every move a wife or child makes. Neither a husband or a father would give permission for a young wife or daughter to further her education.

IIRC, in the msm earlier in the summer, it was reported the oldest Duggar daughter still at home, was going to approach her father about going to college. I have not heard anything else about this topic. IMO she is probably tired of being a "substitute" mother to all the siblings under her.

 

[Cardinal47]

I have been thinking and am worried about Josh and Anna's four little children.

He has crossed so many lines. He just doesn't know right from wrong.

Will those four little ones become victims?

I am wondering if CPS will investigate all of this especially with four young children living in the home?

I know they usually do a work up but this requires a lot more than just an interview.

He molested his sisters, went online for and looking for sex with no concern at all for his wife, children, mother and father, brothers and sisters.

This man has no limits. Being confined will his children be his next victims.

I am very worried about them.

MOO

 

[1&2&3]

Plenty of options but it is up to her to take the first step. Having no education or skills is her fault. Time for this woman to grow up and stop depending on others. Returning to her father's home and burdening him is a cop-out.

Dugger has money and will be required to pay child support. The rest is up to her.

JMO

I disagree that it is Anna's fault. At the time of her marriage, she was following in the only path she knew. These children are so sheltered and brain washed, they go along with the life they have been born into.

She is still a young woman, in love with her husband, just gave birth to another child, and I would imagine her mind is whirling once this latest news broke. Anna is not ready to face the world at this moment by saying she is leaving Josh. The thought of being alone with four small children is the most frightening thing that she could imagine. IMO.

She will back him to keep him in her life. Poor girl is not looking or thinking of what the future with him will really be like. We all suspect what the future holds.

In some states when a divorce happens and the mother has no education, the court will order the husband to pay for her to get job qualified in her field of choice. If that is the case in AZ, that will be a factor in her favor, should that day come. Just saying.

 

[MyBelle]

It's impossible to aspire to that which one does not knows exists.

One of the tactics of those who wish to hold a captive hostage: to convince them that freedom is not only an illusion, but that freedom is also a sin.

BBM. Not only did the Duggars know it exists, they also were quite adept at profit and exploitation. The gig is now up and America is turning the channel.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

BBM

MyBelle: "Having no education or skills is her fault'"

How is having no education or skills Anna's fault? If she was raised to believe that her only life options are to marry, bear children, and be a homemaker - how is her lack of education "her fault"???

IMO, this is the same archaic attitude that condemns women in domestic violence situations when the question is asked "Why doesn't she just leave?"

I think these Quiverfull women need a similar support network to assist them in leaving that some folks are providing for the Amish.

Exactly. Education starts when the child is little. So it's up to the parents to educate the child, not up to the child to educate him or herself.
If this woman doesn't have any formal education, it is certainly not her fault. The females in that culture raised with the expectation they are going to get married and produce as many children as possible (which is what she has been doing). So my guess is she going to stick with Josh because that's all that she knows how to do.

 

[MyBelle]

I disagree that it is Anna's fault. At the time of her marriage, she was following in the only path she knew. These children are so sheltered and brain washed, they go along with the life they have been born into.

She is still a young woman, in love with her husband, just gave birth to another child, and I would imagine her mind is whirling once this latest news broke. Anna is not ready to face the world at this moment by saying she is leaving Josh. The thought of being alone with four small children is the most frightening thing that she could imagine. IMO.

She will back him to keep him in her life. Poor girl is not looking or thinking of what the future with him will really be like. We all suspect what the future holds.

In some states when a divorce happens and the mother has no education, the court will order the husband to pay for her to get job qualified in her field of choice. If that is the case in AZ, that will be a factor in her favor, should that day come. Just saying.

I doubt that her path didn't include the ability to change the channel. She didn't grow up isolated and living in a compound. If she wants to 'stand by her man' that's up to her but she should NOT expect public respect and admiration for her decision.

Many women are quite cable of handling marriage, education, children and careers. And they also don't hesitate to kick pervs to the curb in order to keep them away from their children.

JMO

 

[human]

Can she really forgive and trust him?

She is stuck with him as she has no friends with whom to discuss options of what to do. She has no one to tell her that he is a selfish son of a gun .

She will be examining herself and listing her shortcomings over and over again.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes. I actually think it is unlikely that he would've molested little girls and cheated if not for his background. But you're missing a huge aspect of that background. It's not just about being repressed sexually and having every act and thought controlled. Josh was raised in crazy-making dichotomous culture that is at once extremely repressive of any sexuality outside hetero marriage, including masturbation, looking with any kind of lust at anyone, discussing sex or the body with anyone your own age, seeing anyone besides yourself and babies naked, and even thinking any type of sexual thought when not married (young women are instructed not to even dream about romance or a future mate but to instead be a satsified stay at home daughter until God suddenly drops a mate into her lap - -through a mating arranged by her father), but which is also super, incredibly sex obsessed.

This is culture is hyper aware and obsessed with sex. Temptation, "defrauding" women, "unnatural" sex (gays), and the joys and constant discussion, insinuations and even demonstrations of hetero married sexuality (i.e. The Duggars constantly making out in front of their kids and referencing what they do in the bedroom "hey hey hey!" and "you don't get to do this until your married!") are major obsessive focuses of the culture.

And that's an incredible toxic brew- obsession and repression.

But the key element that when added makes for an even more incredibly toxic environment that virtually guarantees a high level of sexual abuse and dysfunction at all levels is the gender stratification. And the utter patriarchal domination. Women must submit to men. All are taught that the body cannot be trusted, that women and children's bodies are not their own, that men have a direct line from God and are thus "headships" of their wives and children, including adult unmarried daughters and that women are utterly at fault when their headship does something wrong including adultery, child abuse, sexual molestation, gay sex romps and domestic violence.

So imagine a boy being raised in that? Being inundated with sex, told he must repress his sexuality but also told that men control women and children's bodies and sexuality and are above women.

It certainly doesn't make me feel Josh is not to blame. Despite the above, he had choice. I think he is a selfish creep and has definite predatory leanings that he acted on as a teen. But I am agreeing with Scarlett that the culture and the parents bear some of the blame. The incidences of this kind of behavior are higher in cultures like this.

Absolutely on the mark! It is a cycle that often repeats itself. Once one becomes an adult, they do have a choice.

JMO

 

[Montjoy]

Absolutely on the mark! It is a cycle that often repeats itself. Once one becomes an adult, they do have a choice.

JMO

Saying that Josh, a male, has a choice about whether or not he will have an affair is not the same as suggesting that daughters in this cult have anywhere near the same sort of volition when it comes to leaving a bad marriage, getting work or education out of the home, or what not. I don't think that anything in Gitana's post suggests that. The situation for males and females is totally different.

 

[MyBelle]

Can she really forgive and trust him?

She is stuck with him as she has no friends with whom to discuss options of what to do. She has no one to tell her that he is a selfish son of a gun .

She will be examining herself and listing her shortcomings over and over again.

He is far more troubled than just selfish if he also has a history of molestation of his sisters and an on-going addiction to .

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Saying that Josh, a male, has a choice about whether or not he will have an affair is not the same as suggesting that daughters in this cult have anywhere near the same sort of volition when it comes to leaving a bad marriage, getting work or education out of the home, or what not. I don't think that anything in Gitana's post suggests that. The situation for males and females is totally different.

Josh didn't just have an affair. He molested his sisters and said he has an addiction to . Women who were caught up in the Warren Jeff's cult finally got out....with a big helping hand from CPS.

JMO

 

[Montjoy]

Josh didn't just have an affair. He molested his sisters and said he has an addiction to .

Obviously. Did you think I wasn't aware of that? But if you're talking about his molestation of his sisters, why did you respond to Gitana's post by writing: "Once one becomes an adult, they (sic) do have a choice"? The molestation happened when he was an adolescent.

 

[MyBelle]

Obviously. Did you think I wasn't aware of that? But if you're talking about his molestation of his sisters, why did you respond to Gitana's post by writing: "Once one becomes an adult, they (sic) do have a choice"? The molestation happened when he was an adolescent.

The molestation occurred when he was a teenager, not an adolescent.

His wife is also an adult and also has a choice. There are four children in their household.This thread is titled: Crimes-Spotlight on Children. They are the victims here from the choices made by their parents.

JMO

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-and-counting-tlc-sex-abuse-scandal/28066229/

 

[Montjoy]

The molestation occurred when he was a teenager, not an adolescent.

I'm afraid you don't know what 'adolescent' means if you're going to be attempting to make a distinction here.

From Wiki: "Adolescence (from Latin adolescere, meaning "to grow up")[1] is a transitional stage of physical and psychological human development that generally occurs during the period from puberty to legal adulthood (age of majority)."

He was both a teenager and an adolescent.

 

[ellemo]

I am so disturbed that the media and some of the public seem to equate the Ashley Madison scandal with the pedophile scandal. I do not care if Josh has sought out consenting adults and cheated on this wife. That is between him, his wife, the other adults involved and God. And if doing that has kept him away from little kids, then I hope he keeps cheating!

That is the biggest problems about “Christians” and their warped view of sexuality. They treat homosexuality, adultery and pedophile as if they are all equally bad. They are not. The first involves consenting adults and while there can be casual sex (as in hetero people too), there are many gay couples who have a lot of love, respect and commitment. I don’t see how two loving people can be considered sinful, not matter what their gender. The second, while it could be harmful to the spouse and even children of the marriage, it involves consenting adults who are making a choice. The last involves young children who have no say and are harmed both physically and mentally.

 

[flourish]

The molestation occurred when he was a teenager, not an adolescent.

His wife is also an adult and also has a choice. There are four children in their household.This thread is titled: Crimes-Spotlight on Children. They are the victims here from the choices made by their parents.

JMO

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-and-counting-tlc-sex-abuse-scandal/28066229/

Ummm....

The teenage years are also called adolescence.

http://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en...ing-child-adolescent-13-to-18-years-90-P02175


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