Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[HMSHood]

Arias’ babysitter says she saw aggression in her
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/01/21/arias-babysitter-says-she-saw-aggression-arias

Beth Hawkins babysat Jodi Arias and saw aggression when she was young. It is just one incident.

 

[lil_buddy]

So at the beginning of this trial, before JA took the stand, I thought JA was probably BPD, but now I have to go with sociopath. BPD's are usually very emotional and then to cutting and/or suicide attempts/gestures.

The behavior described in the following video does not seem BPD.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/05/new-exclusive-jodi-and-travis-video

I'm interested in other people's takes!

MOO, of course

 

[Tuba]

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/AriasTrialOpenswIndictment002.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/AriasNatalRectified001.jpg

 

[laces]

Tuba, when I first looked at your post, i thought it said,
"Life takes a troll....." LOL
Guess i'll put my specs on!:laugh:

 

[laces]

Gecko, I thought that was a very good examination of the two, especially of Jodi.

 

[laces]

I agree and disagree as well with the above posters. I think even the most innocent among the masses can be dangerous given the right set of circumstances. One act leads to another leads to another , etc. Still, I find it hard to believe she has never sliced someone or shot them before. Who starts out with such a violent crime? It's a mystery to me. With that being said, we will never really know the truth about her, because she is such a liar that there will not be anything we really can learn from her deviant brain.

 

[writer7]

I agree that Jodi butchered Travis savagely.
The difficulty I have with labelling her with any kind of PD (as yet), is because she has maintained reasonably long term relationships, and has no record of prior offending.
My own take at the moment is that these were two very damaged people, both of them with narcissistic wounding. It attracted them to each other, (the amazing 'Attraction Theory' lol), but seriously it is well recognised in therapy that we attract people based on unfinished business from our childhood.
The problems start when the 'business' can't be finished because the person we choose is likely to perpetrate the same wounding we experienced in childhood.
So for Travis, Jodi likely represented one of his parental figures, we know they were both drug addicted, and similar to any type of addiction (such as sexual addiction for instance). Any 'addiction' for Travis is not going to sit well.
Ultimately, their relationship was doomed to fail, because neither of them got their simmering childhood needs met. Of course I am speculating here, because we appear to know very little about Jodi's childhood, but it might suggest a sexual abuse past IDK...
What I see in Jodi, is a deep narcissistic wound and dissociation from reality, maybe PTSD or Complex PTSD regarding childhood abuse?
Complex PTSD can mimic BPD.
Travis wasn't responsible for the initial wounding but he certainly didn't help matters much. Her perceptions of his 'abuse' might be altered who knows? She was certainly insulted and rejected by him and his friends, and continues to be.
They both seem to have dealt with their baggage in different ways, internalising and externalising.
I'm just putting another scenario out there - to me they both look like the opposites of the wounded narcissistic coin.
Prepared to be dissuaded, but don't throw things at me please.
(Ducking for cover)

I had bad PTSD for years because of the crime of a young, female psychopath. I nearly threw things at your post, yes

I completely understand your very good analysis, though. I was obviously taken in to be best friends with a psychopath for so long. They are good at what they do. My funny, complimentary best friend ended up setting up a date-rape-drug rape of me completely out of the blue. Thinking back, I think I know why she did it, but it was still really completely out of the blue. Don't ever insult a psychopath (or her cousin, as it turns out). Evil walks amongst us, and it looks like Ted Bundy or Jodi Arias or my old best friend, imho.

My criminal was never arrested. She's too smart. And her resume doesn't look bad, except her coworkers know that she was fired for stealing product in amazing quantities. It wasn't provable, like most of her crimes (no cameras). I knew that she stole from her parents very often, and she stole sneakily from friends (including me). She cheated on tests and did other immoral things very often. So she never knocked over a convenience store on film. Not all of them do

Keep in mind how JA's mother and aunt laugh in the courtroom. Didn't they laugh at Travis' sister crying yesterday?

I don't know what kind of background to expect for psychopaths, though. Mine had an excellent set of parents and upbringing past infancy, except she was probably too spoiled (she got and did what she wanted all the time). Her real father is a known bad man, though. Definitely no abuse with her unless it was extremely early.

Remember the amount of self-serving lies JA tells, at least. I will be offended if someone thinks that's a symptom of PTSD! It seems to be the biggest giveaway of who JA is, imho. Don't forget her lies and her talent in executing them, even about something as emotional as a supposed self-defense killing. It chills me how in control the girl is when she lies about that (to the interviewers earlier -- known lies).

eta- I feel the need to explain that the set-up rape was in no way ambiguous. I was drugged and taken to a different location where the man was by this girl and her cousin. I was not even drinking. We were having a girls' slumber party -- my best friend and her cousin and me. I had to work the next day, so it was just a night to chill and watch movies for a bit. There was zero ambiguity. I was basically kidnapped by the two of them. It's not like an ambiguous party scenario with drinking and guys, etc.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

I've heard portions of their sex tape several times now. To me, Travis sounded rather blasé and sleepy in the conversation. In contrast, Jodi seemed hyper cheerful, working hard to be agreeable and nice to him. He sounded close to bored at times.

In short, Jodi seemed to work very hard to please Travis and he put little effort to please her in the phone sex. According to Jodi, much of what she did for Travis was just to please him, regardless of how much she got out of it.

I can see this as part of her rage against him when she finally decided to eliminate him permanently. She might say to herself, "I gave him EVERYTHING, I did EVERYTHING he asked me to do. I practically worshiped the ground he walked on" "And, this is how he repays me."

It was a toxic relationship. A fatal attraction for both of them. I think Jodi tried using sex as Travis drug of choice. He wouldn't stay away from her, nor she him. That was the downfall of both of them.

 

[Gecko100]

I had bad PTSD for years because of the crime of a young, female psychopath. I nearly threw things at your post, yes

I completely understand your very good analysis, though. I was obviously taken in to be best friends with a psychopath for so long. They are good at what they do. My funny, complimentary best friend ended up setting up a date-rape-drug rape of me completely out of the blue. Thinking back, I think I know why she did it, but it was still really completely out of the blue. Don't ever insult a psychopath (or her cousin, as it turns out). Evil walks amongst us, and it looks like Ted Bundy or Jodi Arias or my old best friend, imho.

My criminal was never arrested. She's too smart. And her resume doesn't look bad, except her coworkers know that she was fired for stealing product in amazing quantities. It wasn't provable, like most of her crimes (no cameras). I knew that she stole from her parents very often, and she stole sneakily from friends (including me). She cheated on tests and did other immoral things very often. So she never knocked over a convenience store on film. Not all of them do

Keep in mind how JA's mother and aunt laugh in the courtroom. Didn't they laugh at Travis' sister crying yesterday?

I don't know what kind of background to expect for psychopaths, though. Mine had an excellent set of parents and upbringing past infancy, except she was probably too spoiled (she got and did what she wanted all the time). Her real father is a known bad man, though. Definitely no abuse with her unless it was extremely early.

Remember the amount of self-serving lies JA tells, at least. I will be offended if someone thinks that's a symptom of PTSD! It seems to be the biggest giveaway of who JA is, imho. Don't forget her lies and her talent in executing them, even about something as emotional as a supposed self-defense killing. It chills me how in control the girl is when she lies about that (to the interviewers earlier -- known lies).

eta- I feel the need to explain that the set-up rape was in no way ambiguous. I was drugged and taken to a different location where the man was by this girl and her cousin. I was not even drinking. We were having a girls' slumber party -- my best friend and her cousin and me. I had to work the next day, so it was just a night to chill and watch movies for a bit. There was zero ambiguity. I was basically kidnapped by the two of them. It's not like an ambiguous party scenario with drinking and guys, etc.

Hello Writer7, I hope I didn't offend you, (or anyone else) I also live with the horror of PTSD and totally get where you are coming from. You had a truly shocking experience/betrayal, and although we never completely recover time helps a bit, and I'm glad you are here!
My own story contains ASPD/Narcissistic people and I know them well.:furious:
Thank-you everyone for your comments, I like this thread, and just wanted to know how others felt about a different take.
I'm not excusing Jodi's behaviour or her manipulations, I was just trying to look at other scenarios, and possible 'trigger' points for each of them. I think this case is fairly complex given the possibility of past abuse for both of them. I am prepared to be completely wrong!!
I don't know a lot about Jodi's background so thanks to all for the extra information about her past.

 

[Cate49]

Hi kids, forgot to record today but did catch some of the "questions". JA said her aunt found her sell phone that was lost/stolen in her grandfathers car. She used this terminology "my aunt that is sitting in the audience". This was so bang on to her view of herself. She is on stage and we are the audience. I'll be so glad to see her curtain closed.

 

[DairyGirl]

I have a question. Is it known if JA has ever undergone some kind of psychological evaluation? I would think that would be called for in this case but I don't think I have heard anything about it. I understand a psychologist is supposed to testify for the defense but is that after evaluating her or in a general way?

 

[LaMer]

I agree that Jodi butchered Travis savagely.
The difficulty I have with labelling her with any kind of PD (as yet), is because she has maintained reasonably long term relationships, and has no record of prior offending.
My own take at the moment is that these were two very damaged people, both of them with narcissistic wounding. It attracted them to each other, (the amazing 'Attraction Theory' lol), but seriously it is well recognised in therapy that we attract people based on unfinished business from our childhood.
The problems start when the 'business' can't be finished because the person we choose is likely to perpetrate the same wounding we experienced in childhood.
So for Travis, Jodi likely represented one of his parental figures, we know they were both drug addicted, and similar to any type of addiction (such as sexual addiction for instance). Any 'addiction' for Travis is not going to sit well.
Ultimately, their relationship was doomed to fail, because neither of them got their simmering childhood needs met. Of course I am speculating here, because we appear to know very little about Jodi's childhood, but it might suggest a sexual abuse past IDK...
What I see in Jodi, is a deep narcissistic wound and dissociation from reality, maybe PTSD or Complex PTSD regarding childhood abuse?
Complex PTSD can mimic BPD.
Travis wasn't responsible for the initial wounding but he certainly didn't help matters much. Her perceptions of his 'abuse' might be altered who knows? She was certainly insulted and rejected by him and his friends, and continues to be.
They both seem to have dealt with their baggage in different ways, internalising and externalising.
I'm just putting another scenario out there - to me they both look like the opposites of the wounded narcissistic coin.
Prepared to be dissuaded, but don't throw things at me please.
(Ducking for cover)

Not throwing anything! :floorlaugh:

A lot of what you posted may be true, I have no idea but am trying to understand.

IMO,when the defense began it's case

JA prepared herself for her testimony to act as if her head gets dis-combobulated, dizzy, or however she explained/complained about it. Also so rudely to JM! She is a trip!

She used this whining and expressed herself when asked questions not by KN but by JM. IMO it was a setup for what was to come. Her murdering Travis and her not remembering!

I believe she planned this strategy for years while sitting in jail for when she went on trial. She had it down too, every nuance for the jury to hear, to excuse herself for murdering Travis. She cannot remember! :banghead:

She thinks she is really smart, can fool the jury by this ploy of not remembering. Her head and mind just will not take her back to remember past being chased! (?) To her all Travis's fault. However she can remember only what might be to her advantage, Travis coming at her when she dropped the camera. Even if that can be believed. Convenient not to remember the rest of the way she slaughtered him.

Bottom line she set up her dizzy head defense. Not buying it! IMO she had a lot of time to get these whackadoodle stories down, and try to destroy him. She already killed him, and she really hasn't stopped.

Loved the questions from the jury! I think they are on to her!

 

[HMSHood]

So at the beginning of this trial, before JA took the stand, I thought JA was probably BPD, but now I have to go with sociopath. BPD's are usually very emotional and then to cutting and/or suicide attempts/gestures.

The behavior described in the following video does not seem BPD.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/05/new-exclusive-jodi-and-travis-video

I'm interested in other people's takes!

MOO, of course

Jodi Arias looks more emotionally cold, matter of the fact, and at times emotionally. Overall, Arias is emotionally cold. Than again, I have read and/or seen Casey Anthony, Diane Downs, and Lori Drew emotionally cold and matter of the fact as well.

Borderline Personality Disorder (Has To Meet At Least 5 Criteria)
(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
I see that as a trait in Arias. Arias was possibly upset over the break up of Travis Alexander. Than again, I do not know if Arias is consumed by fear of rejection and abandonment. Anthony and Drew show fear of abandonment, especially Drew. Not sure with Downs, though she did not want to be rejected by boyfriend.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
They all have a distorted image of self and prone to splitting in form of boyfriend or own children.

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
I do not think that is the case with Arias. I do not see any self-hatred in Arias. I see that characteristic in Anthony, Drew, and Downs as they are consumed by self-hatred.

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
Arias, Downs, Anthony, and Drew are certainly impulsive.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
Not a trait of any of them.

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
I think Arias is certainly volatile. Anthony, Drew, and Downs are certainly volatile, but not sure if they are moody.

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness
Characteristic of all of them.

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
Arias, Anthony, Drew, and Downs are prone to anger. Arias was likely angry about the break up. However, she was dating another man at the time of Travis Alexander murder. Anthony and Drew are likely prone to uncontrollable fits of anger. However, Drew is more likely to bottle up anger.

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms
Not a trait of Arias to my knowledge. Certainly not a trait of Anthony and Downs. Strong characteristic of Drew, as she shows paranoia when felt her daughter, Sarah was being taunted by Megan Meier.

Red is my opinion.

http://behavenet.com/borderline-personality-disorder

It is possible that Jodie Arias could have Borderline Personality Disorder. Than again, the traits are not pathological as seen in others. There is no doubt she is a psychopath.

My Opinion Only and not making any diagnosis.

 

[Nancy_Drew]

So at the beginning of this trial, before JA took the stand, I thought JA was probably BPD, but now I have to go with sociopath. BPD's are usually very emotional and then to cutting and/or suicide attempts/gestures.

The behavior described in the following video does not seem BPD.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/03/05/new-exclusive-jodi-and-travis-video

I'm interested in other people's takes!

MOO, of course

I totally agree... Sociopath, with a huge dose of Narcissism!

 

[Nancy_Drew]

Someone just posted this on Facebook, and I thought it was worth sharing. I have thought this too because of how she has been "outing" Travis... And because someone with Anti Social Personality Disorder will go to any extreme for self preservation ...every time she says she has been trying to protect Travis, that is not true...it's been all about protecting herself... She even admitted that..."she didn't want anyone to know she was capable of doing such a thing"...

"The most DAMNING EVIDENCE is the MOTIVE that people are NOT SEEING! Connect the dots. On MAY 26th, 2008, TRAVIS sends that long VICIOUS TEXT MESSAGE to JODI, in which he calls her a SOCIOPATH, tells her he is sick of her DRAMA, that she is stressing him out on a daily basis. He basically calls her manipulative and says "you're the worst thing that has ever happened to me", and "I'm beginning to really dislike you" and THREATENS HER that he is going to seek REVENGE by TELLING EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her "psycho ways". HE Also tells her that she had BETTER START PAYING HIM BACK for the CAR she bought from him. He was always bailing her out of financial trouble and he saw her as irresponsible. TWO DAYS LATER, HER GRANDPARENTS GUN IS STOLEN! (on. May 28th) JODI RENTS A CAR ON JUNE 2nd, takes gas cans, and leaves on her trip for AZ. (and takes measures to try to cover up her trip along the way). On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before. She sent that text mentioning it days later, knowing full well it wound never be cashed, cuz he was already dead. THE MOTIVE: She was going to be OUTED by TRAVIS as the SOCIOPATH that she is and the result was RAGE and REVENGE. She was PISSED that he said all the mean things he said in that text a week prior and that started her murderous plot in motion. She realized he would never marry her and he was moving on in his life with other women. She was his BOOTY CALL, period and he was DONE WITH HER. And she would be OFF THE HOOK from having to PAY HIM BACK."​

 

[Nancy_Drew]

My favorite question of the day!!

"Did you ever seek help for your mental condition?"​

Beautiful...just BEAUTIFUL! The jurors are so on to her!

 

[deedee21]

Jodi is one sick puppy. Nancy Grace was given a tour of the jail Jodi is at. According to an inmate, Jodi said she killed Travis in self defense then cut his body up into pieces and disposed of him around town. Maybe that was her real intention.

 

[Gecko100]

It was certainly a rage full and personal murder, no doubt about that!!
I agree that she is not borderline, but she does have features of.
Before I say this, I'm going to hide behind the couch
Here goes, there is something very sad about Jodi, - it may just be shallow affect, but I sense that something really horrible has happened to her in the past. She is such a Klingon...
I never really saw that sadness in FCA, she was irritatingly shallow and self obsessed.
It might just be the difference between an extroverted and introverted personality.
It's interesting that both Jodi and FCA have very distinct bands of followers who clearly never experienced their pathology in the way others have. There are striking similarities between them. It also suggests that they both posses chameleon/reptilian morphing skills
can I come out now???? please...

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Someone just posted this on Facebook, and I thought it was worth sharing. I have thought this too because of how she has been "outing" Travis... And because someone with Anti Social Personality Disorder will go to any extreme for self preservation ...every time she says she has been trying to protect Travis, that is not true...it's been all about protecting herself... She even admitted that..."she didn't want anyone to know she was capable of doing such a thing"...

"The most DAMNING EVIDENCE is the MOTIVE that people are NOT SEEING! Connect the dots. On MAY 26th, 2008, TRAVIS sends that long VICIOUS TEXT MESSAGE to JODI, in which he calls her a SOCIOPATH, tells her he is sick of her DRAMA, that she is stressing him out on a daily basis. He basically calls her manipulative and says "you're the worst thing that has ever happened to me", and "I'm beginning to really dislike you" and THREATENS HER that he is going to seek REVENGE by TELLING EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her "psycho ways". HE Also tells her that she had BETTER START PAYING HIM BACK for the CAR she bought from him. He was always bailing her out of financial trouble and he saw her as irresponsible. TWO DAYS LATER, HER GRANDPARENTS GUN IS STOLEN! (on. May 28th) JODI RENTS A CAR ON JUNE 2nd, takes gas cans, and leaves on her trip for AZ. (and takes measures to try to cover up her trip along the way). On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before. She sent that text mentioning it days later, knowing full well it wound never be cashed, cuz he was already dead. THE MOTIVE: She was going to be OUTED by TRAVIS as the SOCIOPATH that she is and the result was RAGE and REVENGE. She was PISSED that he said all the mean things he said in that text a week prior and that started her murderous plot in motion. She realized he would never marry her and he was moving on in his life with other women. She was his BOOTY CALL, period and he was DONE WITH HER. And she would be OFF THE HOOK from having to PAY HIM BACK."​

What a great Facebook post! Thanks for sharing it. I tend to agree that Jodi set her plan in motion after receiving the text from Travis. To Jodi, it was the ultimate insult to her whole being. It was reported that Travis showed his text to Jodi to one of his friends. The friend asked Travis if he wasn't afraid Jodi would seek revenge. Apparently Travis laughed it off. Fatal mistake on his part. I believe that insulting text from Travis was enough motive for JA to get into her murder mode.

 

[commspecialist]

It is possible that she underwent psychosis on the day that she killed TA. it could explain the memory gap, and the sheer brutality of the killing.