Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[writer7]

Man, I'm posting a book, but one thing I wonder about might help explain Travis.

He's the type to try to stay friends with everyone he ever met. That gets harder as you age, usually, but it sounds like he hung around a group of people who could stay very civil after break-ups or with different business views, etc.

I think he probably had religious reasons, too, for not wanting to just completely cut off a person in his life. If someone wants to talk to you and you are this sort of person, what do you do? Not even take a phone call ever again? I think the idea of harshly drawing a line with people was very foreign to him. People he had loved became family, for better or worse

 

[SmoothOperator]

Below IMO describes her well.. My personal opinion is that she is a combination of PDs.

Since the psychopath has no real emotions, they develop their own personality throughout their life by mimicking those around them. Their inability to control inappropriate outburst of anger and hostility often results in loss of jobs, disassociation with friends and family and divorce. This in itself is filtered by the psychopath into a justification process for more aggressive behavior.

Because of their inability to gauge when their actions are being perceived as dishonest, deceitful or dangerous, they also fail to accept that there are consequences for their actions. They always maintain a belief that they can outwit those who pursue them and that they will never be caught. Once caught, they believe they will find a way back out.

Of course the last two sentences very much apply to the situation at hand.. her going toe to toe with Juan and her belief that she still can manipulate a way out of the consequences she faces for slaughtering Travis.. I am one who is definitely of the opinion that SHE IS NOT AT ALL RESIGNED TO THE FACT SHE IS GOING DOWN.. I know some believe she is already resigned to that fact and just doesn't care therefor just going balls to the wall in sparring with Juan...my belief is just the opposite in she still believes she can outwit Juan..jmo

 

[SmoothOperator]

I believe Jodi turned Travis inside out. After awhile, the degraded sex became the norm. I believe she taught him almost every nasty deed they deed.

She, instinctively knew what he wanted and what his weaknesses were...as all psychopths do. She lured him into the perversion. He wanted out and wanted to go back to normal. She was not about to let that occur because that meant she had to go for that to happen.

These types are masters at manipulation. Even to trained therapists, they will wrap you up and spit you out. They twist you and turn you and you will doubt yourself. It is pure evil and for those who have never experienced it, it will not be understood. I have seen it at work and had to experience it in the job I had. It will chill you to the bone. I have seen small buckets of blood in some of the workings they pull off in attempted suicide (of course, they weren't going to die as they had it timed for staff to discover the deed). I know of them tormenting patients in their sleep by standing over them with a knife. Jodie is pure evil. She has got by in life on her looks and manipulation. They watch/monitor everything you do. You are not aware of this at first.

Sure Travis fell for the sex. He was a target for this. He had no idea that this kind of evil exists and certainly didn't think sex escapades were going to kill him. He got down and dirty with her. He acted as if in a trance around her when they played out their fantasies. When he woke up, his fate was sealed.

I have watched trained psychiatrists and psychologists lose their jobs over these cons. They play people against each other and you will never see it coming. Even people trained in Borderline/narcissitic/anti-social psychopathy fall in their trap. They are THAT good. Travis was a victim and nothing more in her web of evil.

IMO you are so right about professionals even being sucked in by the psychopath.. Below is documented proof that conventional methods of therapy ACTUALLY EMPOWER THE PSYCHOPATH!!!

Conventional Treatment Empowers the Psychopath
There are different degrees of psychopathic behavior and different types including the sexual psychopath and the work psychopath. Most studies indicate that there are no conventional methods available which cures psychopathic behavior. On the contrary, when conventional methods have been used, the psychopath becomes empowered, and reacts by improving their cunning, manipulative methods and their ability to conceal their true personality, even from trained eyes.

http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/psychopaths.htm

 

[LynnM]

Having learned more about her past behavior, especially her driving some distance to confront - for an hour - a young woman that an old boyfriend of hers was now seeing, and the information about how little she worked and how unsatisfactorily - and seeing her on the stand and all the lying she has done in this case, I now believe she does definitely have a personality disorder.

I personally have no objections to unmarried consenting adults engaging in sexual behavior that they both enjoy however silly or unpleasant it would seem to me to be. I don't condemn either Jodi or Travis for these private matters. It is true that as an unmarried Mormon he was supposed to be chaste and so was she but this is true for other Christians and most religions in general. When people mature at age 13 but are not ready for marriage until a decade or more later after finishing education, well frankly it is no surprise that people don't manage celibacy all that well. I don't buy the Jodi as temptress argument either. Unless they are cognitively impaired or have a brain disease, adults are responsible for their behavior. So that whole area is a wash for me. Jodi is not on trial for her sexual behavior, but for a savage murder.

I thought it possible that Travis had been stringing her along but it seems clear that this was not the case. In the phone sex tape, she talks about how they are both going to marry other people so she knew and still chose to pursue a sexual relationship with him and still kept showing up at his house. This was not an impulse killing when she learned that someone whom she thought loved her was just using her. She premeditated this because Travis didn't want her and she wasn't going to be able to change her mind. She took steps in advance to avoid being caught. I think she was going to give him one last chance to change his mind and he didn't and she decided to go ahead.

Travis was not a pedophile. He was sexually attracted to women his age and I think that the prosecutor has proven that her story about catching him masturbating to pictures of little boys could not have happened as she said it did. So she has deliberately lied to get the jury to dislike him, hoping not to get the death penalty at least.

And the savagery of the murder is almost unbelievable. She herself said that she couldn't have done the killing (it was the ninjas) because if she had she would have been humane about it. Very telling!

She doesn't seem to understand anything about how she appears to the rest of us with normal emotions. Her sentimental story about being comforted by feeling Travis's presence at the funeral and feeling that he had forgiven her was supposed to win over her listeners over but it just nauseated and angered me.

So whether she is a narcissistic personality or borderline or is a sociopath, I don't have the expertise to know but she is not a normal person (legally sane though) and what she did was truly evil.

 

[kaRN]

If only Jodi had the insight...but alas. A song for those she's damaged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziA88-n02k

 

[SamuraiPie]

First post alert! Before I begin, I wanted to mention that it is refreshing to participate in a forum where everyone is respectful of one another and their opinions. Looking forward to spending more time with all of you.

I am armed with a Psych degree and have done a lot of reading on personality disorders, although my main field of study is human sexuality. That being said, here are my notes on JA and TA:

JA

Psychopath with narcissistic tendencies. I saw there was some debate on here as to whether JA is a psychopath or sociopath. It is acceptable to use the terms "psychopath" and "sociopath" interchangeably. They are similar in definition and fall under the general category of anti-social personality disorders. Anyway, some noted characteristics of JA that fall in line with psychopathic personalities: Charming, lies easily, uses sex/attractiveness as weapon, manipulative, has an answer for everything and has an eagerness to "debate" or be contrary in nature. Just an aside: a psychopath is not to be confused with someone who is psychotic, such as someone who hears voices or hallucinates, or has delusions of grandeur.

I have noticed on several occasions during her testimony she tends to mix up past and present tense, especially during her description of the murder. For example, "So he's grabbing me, and I ran into the closet." It is clear she is visualizing or "making up" the scene in her mind as she goes along. It is interesting to try this--think of a traumatic even in your life and then recite what happened for yourself or another person. You used past tense, right?

TA

I know this thread concerns JA, but reading Travis' blog http://travisalexander.blogspot.com/ (Introduction to "Raising You") is revealing. Suffering verbal and physical abuse at the hands of his mother helps to explain his interest in the erotic humiliation of Jodi. Feeling powerless in childhood, he found in JA someone who would allow him to "dominate" her, at least sexually. I do think the games they played seemed rather benign in nature and find it hard to believe that JA would be psychologically damaged in the process. The sex seemed to take on a life of its own outside the relationship, which is to say, when they carried out their sexual role-playing they relinquished the actual roles in the relationship. I can understand how Travis could view sex with JA as a separate entity, and why he continued to consent to sex with JA even after they had broken up.

It seems unlikely that TA was a pedophile. JA claims he was masturbating to pics of young boys, yet he is hetero? The "schoolgirl" fantasy is typical and requires an ADULT female to play along, hence the titillation factor. File next to "librarian" and "school teacher"--typical, red-blooded American male fantasies.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

By the way, there is no doubt in my mind that J is guilty. My understanding is that she's trying to avoid the death penalty.
Too bad more young people don't read here because I write my thoughts for the purpose of pointing out how a victim could have avoided walking into the fire so-to-speak. People sometimes take that as blaming the vicitim. That's not my intention. My intention is recognizing behavior that can increase one's chances of running into foul play or exposing oneself to increased risk of something bad happening to them.
There are lessons to be learned from paying attention to tragic cases such as this one. Unfortunately most young people are of the mindset that nothing really bad will ever happen to them.
It's not always a good thing to be too nice, too forgiving, too loose, too trusting, too a lot of things.

In my many years, I don't think I've ever known a psychopath - thank God. Except I knew a blatant liar once who purposely put me in harms way so maybe he was one - at the very least a narcissistic something. Then there was that neighbor on the military base who turned people in - nevermind, maybe I have known some ill meaning people. :waitasec: I recognize some control issue traits in a few people who are closer to me but wouldn't go so far to label them with bipolar or borderline. I may have met one in female form but cut it off after her first weirdish offense (after she didn't seem to understand it had been an offense). Actually I've realized, through my education on WS, that my mother has some control issues that she means only in a nice way (ugh!). It's in the form of denying my feelings and relating back to me how I should or should not feel. It bugs me but she doesn't really get it. She doesn't try to control person x, y or z. She's not a feather ruffler. Have I over compensated? One day I realized that I want to have my own voice and deserve to have a voice as much as the next guy does. I'm uncomfortable with yes men types as it seems disingenuous to me. Enough of my self therapy for now!

It seems that all the diagnoses can be put on a scale from nuances and annoyances, all the way up to full blown conditions. It doesn't seem as if some people know when they have some of these traits because they've always been that way and people put up with it.

Self knowledge is what I'm trying to understand - like when a person is plotting and purposely trying to sabotage another person versus when a person, due to habit and how they were raised, just has some built in traits that could be improved upon - possibly shaped by them as survival skills.
If you confront a serious control type person early on, they'll dump you immediately.

I'm not clear on the facts about the gun in this case. If she brought it with her then she had for sure already considered she may want to use it that day.

 

[lil_buddy]

:gthanks::tyou::greetings::wagon::welcome: :welcome4: :welcome5:

Hello SamuraiPie!!!!
Thanks for your post. Very enlightening and thought provoking!
Please feel free to post any theories you have.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

First post alert! Before I begin, I wanted to mention that it is refreshing to participate in a forum where everyone is respectful of one another and their opinions. Looking forward to spending more time with all of you.

I am armed with a Psych degree and have done a lot of reading on personality disorders, although my main field of study is human sexuality. That being said, here are my notes on JA and TA:

JA

Psychopath with narcissistic tendencies. I saw there was some debate on here as to whether JA is a psychopath or sociopath. It is acceptable to use the terms "psychopath" and "sociopath" interchangeably. They are similar in definition and fall under the general category of anti-social personality disorders. Anyway, some noted characteristics of JA that fall in line with psychopathic personalities: Charming, lies easily, uses sex/attractiveness as weapon, manipulative, has an answer for everything and has an eagerness to "debate" or be contrary in nature. Just an aside: a psychopath is not to be confused with someone who is psychotic, such as someone who hears voices or hallucinates, or has delusions of grandeur.

I have noticed on several occasions during her testimony she tends to mix up past and present tense, especially during her description of the murder. For example, "So he's grabbing me, and I ran into the closet." It is clear she is visualizing or "making up" the scene in her mind as she goes along. It is interesting to try this--think of a traumatic even in your life and then recite what happened for yourself or another person. You used past tense, right?

TA

I know this thread concerns JA, but reading Travis' blog http://travisalexander.blogspot.com/ (Introduction to "Raising You") is revealing. Suffering verbal and physical abuse at the hands of his mother helps to explain his interest in the erotic humiliation of Jodi. Feeling powerless in childhood, he found in JA someone who would allow him to "dominate" her, at least sexually. I do think the games they played seemed rather benign in nature and find it hard to believe that JA would be psychologically damaged in the process. The sex seemed to take on a life of its own outside the relationship, which is to say, when they carried out their sexual role-playing they relinquished the actual roles in the relationship. I can understand how Travis could view sex with JA as a separate entity, and why he continued to consent to sex with JA even after they had broken up.

It seems unlikely that TA was a pedophile. JA claims he was masturbating to pics of young boys, yet he is hetero? The "schoolgirl" fantasy is typical and requires an ADULT female to play along, hence the titillation factor. File next to "librarian" and "school teacher"--typical, red-blooded American male fantasies.

:wagon: How timely!

What about love though. Do you think every heart/soul desires to be loved?
I came of age in the 70's and, even though it was common back in that day and age (versus the 1950's) to have recreational sex, as a woman I never felt at peace about it. I don't think it's the same for boys/men. Does the soul's desire ever change? I'm not old fashioned even; I just know how my journey influenced my life.

I sense in Jodi a hurt that stems from being rejected. Is that me reflecting how I would feel? Of course I'd never (nor did I) set out to kill anybody in retaliation but might feel (have felt) as if part of me had been killed.

 

[SamuraiPie]

:wagon: How timely!

What about love though. Do you think every heart/soul desires to be loved?
I came of age in the 70's and, even though it was common back in that day and age (versus the 1950's) to have recreational sex, as a woman I never felt at peace about it. I don't think it's the same for boys/men. Does the soul's desire ever change? I'm not old fashioned even; I just know how my journey influenced my life.

I sense in Jodi a hurt that stems from being rejected. Is that me reflecting how I would feel? Of course I'd never (nor did I) set out to kill anybody in retaliation but might feel (have felt) as if part of me had been killed.

Thank you for the kind welcome!

I believe it is hard-wired in most women (due to biological reasons, in part) to be more "selective" when it comes to sexual partners, as opposed to men. You make a good point in that Jodi would feel rejected by Travis, used even, and that would be part of her motivation for killing him. I don't buy so much the "I can't have him so no one else will" (rage) theory. She seems far more emotionally involved than he (remember the diary entry, "I'm in love with Travis Victor Alexander and I don't care who knows it"?). Many of us feel rejection but what each of us does with these feelings is uniquely ours. I suppose it all comes down to processing--why some can handle "life" in general better than others.

 

[SamuraiPie]

Thank you!!!

 

[BD1]

Ooooh SamariPie, would love to pick your brain!

What is the deal with JA's religiosity? Is she using religion as a cover for her lack of empathy (ie, being certain that TA"'forgives her" from the great beyond, where he is certainly "better off", etc?)

 

[Cate49]

JA has changed her reaction today. She is not as arrogrant and using sly smile. She has changed either from defense team or herself. She is presenting herself as meek and timid with the tears on standby.

 

[prima.facie]

I have been trying to follow this case via websleuths to the best of my ability. my busy schedule has really hampered this! today was the FIRST time I was able to watch the trial live.

And um. Wow. Wow.

I have never seen such a narcissistic psychopathic with gaslighting traits (for those who may believe in such), as I see with her.

Im really really mad at my life (lol) that I haven't been able to watch more of this trial, because it is really a schooling in dysfunctional personalities!!

Back to lurking as much as I can.....

 

[HMSHood]

Is Jodi Arias Guilty? What does her handwriting reveal
http://handwritinguniversity.com/members/weekly-newsletters/jodi-arias-handwriting-analysis/

Just a glance at the handwriting shows emotional volatility and someone who is extroverted. She likes to be around people. The writing does show some characteristics similar to Lori Drew's or Casey Anthony's handwriting. The handwriting is not as crowded like you see in Casey Anthony.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Is there a significance between looking, peeking and peeping (in the window at Ta's home)?? The defense objected to peeping, but not the other two. TIA

My guess is that they have a problem with peeping because it's associated with peeping toms who are, of course, stalkerish and perverted.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

They feel everyone has the right to a fair trail and that's what they live by regardless of who their client ends up being. Beyond that I would love to hear what else they say

I often feel as if many defense attorneys are sociopaths. I would imagine that, if we lined them up prosecuting attorney vs defense attorney, defense attorneys would have a lot more sociopaths. But, that's just speculation, of course.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Dual diagnoses people sometimes are evil. There is not much to say when you mix a Borderline with Malignant Narcissim other than that. If anyone ever met one or had to work in a facility with them, you would never be the same. It is a life changing experience. They are masters at the english language and will use your words to kill you, or cause harm to you in other ways.

You will experience the wonder of perhaps you are insane. They are that good and that is exaclty what happened to Travis. He began to doubt himself and begn to wonder if he could ever get rid of her. He knew the problem but had no idea how to deal with it. He became confused and tried to appease her so she wouldn't harm her. Take note that is what she is telling you but it is not accurate. He was the one appeasing her. At some level, he knew it was a life saving gesture to always please her.

I had to work around 14 women with this diagnosis....and I didn't lst 3 months. They sucked everything out of me and I will never choose to work in mental health again. It is impossible for me to explain their evil ways. It has been almost 10 years and I haven't recovered yet. I shiver at the thought of being around a Borderline and narcissistic. I can spot them now though....thank heavens!

It's amazing someone would choose to work with people with mental illness with that kind of attitude. The whole idea of them being "evil" is offensive. Were you licensed? Just asking because this site is bad about stigmatizing people with mental illness.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

My preliminary take on Jodi Arias

Jodi is very intelligent in some ways. She had rather low level work as a waitress which barely paid the bills. She was looking to better herself economically and social status wise. So she traveled to the Pre-Paid Legal opportunity meeting. She met Travis Alexander there. She was almost instantly attracted to him. He was charismatic, upwardly mobile and potentially a good earner. He seemed the ideal man, partner, husband she wanted and needed. He offered economic stability, an exciting life with a man she admired and wanted to be with. She over-idealized Travis. She wanted desperately to hitch her wagon to Travis rising Star. Travis was attracted to Jodi too. She must have been over the moon with happiness and excitement. She wanted to be the perfect girl friend for Travis. Therefore, she did only what HE wanted, pretending that's what she wanted. She even went so far as to convert to Mormonism. Her sex life with Travis was so exciting for both of them. But Jodi thought that their sex life was going to cement her to Travis for possibly marriage and permanence. She didn't realize that their sex life (a serious sin in Mormonism) would end up costing her Travis, who would never marry a "bad" girl like her. When she finally realized the truth, that Travis had no intention of ever marrying her, she felt used, abused and tossed on the trash heap of Travis life.

Her revenge on Travis was sex one last time, then turn the tables on him, and murder him.

 

[Cate49]

New day of questioning and JA is back to being mouthy and aversive. So many answers from JA using language that does not pin her down. This is behavior that we saw the first day of questioning.