Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[SMK]

It's more than just lack of compassion/remorse...
Simple logic dictates that committing these murders would not solve their (JA, SD) problems or get them what they wanted.

Well, if JA believed she had covered her tracks well enough (turning off cell phone , renting a car, pre-dating a check, deleting pics) then she probably figured she WOULD be able to move on, so long as she never had to know TA was out there, handsome and successful, with a Mormon wife and kids. Knowing she terrorized and brutally killed him, she could feel powerful and victorious.

What is really dumb is that she thought rental cars could not be traced and that deleted pics could not be accessed. Not too bright of her......

I cannot help but feel that sociopathy (whatever the genetic components) is created, not inborn. ( If it is inborn, who could have children knowing what one might unleash on the world?)----Who knows what may have happened to her as a child? She must be convicted and the death penalty would not bother me. But I keep wondering who she might have been. Unless my theory is wrong, but I don't think so....

 

[BunnyHop]

Can someone tell me JA association with Dr. Samuels? How are they connected?
What is the circumstance of his interviews with her? TIA

 

[SMK]

Can someone tell me JA association with Dr. Samuels? How are they connected?
What is the circumstance of his interviews with her? TIA

He is a defense expert. He met with Arias 12 times to assess her condition, and had access to the homicide case files and her psychological tests. He is a clinical psychologist.

 

[Cate49]

Thanks so much for such a thorough response. :great: Much appreciated.

I see that you are right: JA likely had a great fear that the Cancun trip would be the catalyst for TA and the new Mimi to become lovers, given the romantic setting and the time alone, and his attractive looks and ambitious personality -

- and for him to call it quits and call her a sociopath (instead of a goddess) had to have been the bitter end for her.

I guess when I was in my 20s if obsessed with a guy like this and ending like this I would have felt fear, horror, shame, and worthlessness. In her case, she felt RAGE. I am just trying to reconcile the rage with premeditation?
ETA: I was just looking at this article and I think it answers my last


question:

Mimi was chaperoned on the trip and she was adimemt to remain a virgin until wedded. This was made clear to Travis.

 

[SMK]

Mimi was chaperoned on the trip and she was adimemt to remain a virgin until wedded. This was made clear to Travis.

Well, it could still have moved forward along Platonic lines....and actually might have made her far more appealling to him - a novelty after so much sex with JA.......

ETA: Looked at from this perspective, it might have been all the more threatening to JA as well- virginity was something she definitely could not compete with.

 

[SMK]

I have been reading Travis Alexander's last blog post dated May 18 2008 - a mere 17 days before the end of his young life .

He calls it "Why I Want to Marry a Gold Digger" and it is a play on words: He does not approve of actual gold diggers; he is looking for someone to seek the spiritual gold within him.

If you read the post in its entirety, (link below) I think it is comprised of words and ideas that could threaten, undermine, and humiliate Jodi far more than any texts calling her a "" or a "sociopath". It calls into question the very value of her existence.

It is made worse by the fact that it is Travis talking to himself and thinking of his future wife, and leaving Jodi out of it altogether: For Jodi, this must have been virtually unbearable. The crime she did must have seemed to her a small price to pay to get rid of such an existential torture and restore her twisted ego to its throne.

In fact, from my own perspective, if I were in love with a man like TA: In love with him romantically, and also envying him as a person for his success, his congeniality, and his religion - and I had attempted to win him over as Jodi did, with tons of kinky sex......and it wasn't working, and I knew he was seeking young Mormon virginal girls, and I read this blog post, I would absolutely go over the edge ( being me and not Jodi, I'd be feeling suicidal and not homicidal).

I would seriously consider that it was this blog post (she surely must have soused out all his online formats) which made her insanely jealous, insecure, and made the abyss open at her feet.....:what:

http://travisalexander.blogspot.com/

 

[Cate49]

Have read Travis blog. It was written for his religious community and public viewing. He is not going to reveal his sexual relations. Though I love watching court trials this one makes me feel slimy. Travis has been accused by the defence and jodi supporters of being a petaphile, sexual deviant, and a bad man. His legacy smeared and his good intentions lost. He is being slaughtered again but this time we all bare witness. This I find is our voyeuristic little secret.

 

[SMK]

Have read Travis blog. It was written for his religious community and public viewing. He is not going to reveal his sexual relations. Though I love watching court trials this one makes me feel slimy. Travis has been accused by the defence and jodi supporters of being a petaphile, sexual deviant, and a bad man. His legacy smeared and his good intentions lost. He is being slaughtered again but this time we all bare witness. This I find is our voyeuristic little secret.

I would agree, it is very unfair that his reputation is being smeared as it is. My point above, though, was very different. I still believe it is theoretically valid. He was writing publicly but it was clear that he was in a new frame of mind which had evolved beyond Jodi. He would not have mentioned sex with her at this point even if he were writing in a private diary.

 

[SMK]

Some pro-Arias site is selling pieces of her artwork. They are asking for bids in excess of $899.00

Below is one example.

What I find psychologically interesting is the the portrait, rather than invoking Lucille Ball, reminds one of Jodi herself: Blank and cool. Her style seems mechanical.

All very telling.

http://[link removed]/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Jodi-Arias-original-artwork-Lucille-Ball.jpg

This one is even more chilling: JA's artistic style is very, very evocative of her own persona.

http://[link removed]/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Jodi-Arias-original-artwork-Aries.jpg

http://[link removed]/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Jodi-Arias-original-artwork-Aries.jpg

 

[Cate49]

Ricochet, the test he took was a PTS test. Not sure when testing was done after arrest someone may no this answer. The MMPI (Minnesota multiphasic Personality inventory)
Used most to diagnose mental illness. If Jodi was able to read online a dms 4 online while incarcerated. If she that see's you that you don't recognize would be a clue this is someone doing mental health assessment. Most doctors introduce themselves at least that has been my experience. 12 visits to assess Jodi is not long enough IMO to diagnose. Especially Richocett when multiple personality disorders overlap.
Trauma does cause fog and timeline problems as this has happened to myself. However, at no point did I experience complete loss of events and time. Speaking with psychiatrists or psychologists is effective if they are told truth. She may add a smudge of truth but the rest B.S. IMHO Jodi will use her sexuality to obtain anything that is in her favor or desire. Someone this thread used the term diabolical and that is the Jodi I see.

 

[bladesama]

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 32 - Part 3 - YouTube

watch from 10.40 .... this was the funniest thing i heard in this case

martinez tore shreds off this psychologist.. he has little to no credibility now lol

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Very interesting in so many ways. These folks seem to literally have some absent or disconnected wires in their brain where compassion and remorse normally reside . . .

Funny you should mention this disconnect. I've read recently that flouroscopic brain scan research by (I believe) the Massachusetts University that in some profound personality disorders the Amygdala and the Cortex are not connected as functionally as in a non-disordered person.
In those with certain personality disorders, the Amygdala seems to over-react sensorally and the nervous system wiring that runs to the Cortex either doesn't act conductively enough or the Cortex itself doesn't read the signals properly and basically under-reacts.
So, scientists/researchers are seeing more of a physical, nature over nurture pathology, imho.

:twocents:

 

[SMK]

Funny you should mention this disconnect. I've read recently that flouroscopic brain scan research by (I believe) the Massachusetts University that in some profound personality disorders the Amygdala and the Cortex are not connected as functionally as in a non-disordered person.
In those with certain personality disorders, the Amygdala seems to over-react sensorally and the nervous system wiring that runs to the Cortex either doesn't act conductively enough or the Cortex itself doesn't read the signals properly and basically under-reacts.
So, scientists/researchers are seeing more of a physical, nature over nurture pathology, imho.

:twocents:

Fascinating, but two questions arise:

1. Could this phenomena be produced during childhood due to events?

2. If not, then the moral aspect goes out the window and such persons should no longer be judged as evil, just malformed.

Morality and evil arise from free will and evil is always chosen. If this is "wired in" then we have no right to judge, just to view these people as dangerous, but not bad.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I was wondering if anyone had seen this Dateline segment, and the clip of the author who is writing the book on Arias/Alexander murder.

I did not know about this Mormon concept of age 30 being massively, hugely important for a Mormon man, and the idea of wards. Again, big emphasis on sin and Jodi not being marriage material. Did she fully realize this? Now I am back to my original view re TA's hypocrisy and playing with fire.

Interesting.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geSzeuJqfo4

Thank you for posting this, SMK. I thought I had seen everything about this case.

I had never seen her friend before. She's even a worse faker and actor than Jodi, if that is possible.

At 1:47 in the first part:
Dateline: Along Came Jodi Pt 1/6 - YouTube

I wonder if she is the one who has been in the courtroom, with the shirt hanging off her shoulder, exposing her tats? (tattoos, not tatas )

 

[SMK]

Thank you for posting this, SMK. I thought I had seen everything about this case.

I had never seen her friend before. She's even a worse faker and actor than Jodi, if that is possible.

At 1:47 in the first part:
Dateline: Along Came Jodi Pt 1/6 - YouTube

I wonder if she is the one who has been in the courtroom, with the shirt hanging off her shoulder, exposing her tats? (tattoos, not tatas )

Most welcome! Agree with you about the friend. Yes, that may be her.

 

[Ricochet]

Ricochet, the test he took was a PTS test. Not sure when testing was done after arrest someone may no this answer. The MMPI (Minnesota multiphasic Personality inventory)
Used most to diagnose mental illness. If Jodi was able to read online a dms 4 online while incarcerated. If she that see's you that you don't recognize would be a clue this is someone doing mental health assessment. Most doctors introduce themselves at least that has been my experience. 12 visits to assess Jodi is not long enough IMO to diagnose. Especially Richocett when multiple personality disorders overlap.
Trauma does cause fog and timeline problems as this has happened to myself. However, at no point did I experience complete loss of events and time. Speaking with psychiatrists or psychologists is effective if they are told truth. She may add a smudge of truth but the rest B.S. IMHO Jodi will use her sexuality to obtain anything that is in her favor or desire. Someone this thread used the term diabolical and that is the Jodi I see.

I don't fully understand what you're writing. When you say PTS do you mean PTSD? Did she take the MMPI-2? If she took that test which measures a broad spectrum of a person as a whole and not just one thing then I assure you there is NO way she faked that. She can read whatever book she likes. That test is highly sophisticated which can also measure the likelihood of whether someone is lying.

A person administering test will introduce themselves as a doctor, but unlikely they are going to come right out and say I'm testing you for ptsd..If it's the MMPI-2 then it doesn't really matter because it tests for everything.. I've taken it twice, and it's not something that can be scored immediately..

If it's the MMPI - 2 this will give you an idea of how complex it is..
http://faculty.pepperdine.edu/shimels/Courses/Files/MMPI2.pdf

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Have read Travis blog. It was written for his religious community and public viewing. He is not going to reveal his sexual relations. Though I love watching court trials this one makes me feel slimy. Travis has been accused by the defence and jodi supporters of being a petaphile, sexual deviant, and a bad man. His legacy smeared and his good intentions lost. He is being slaughtered again but this time we all bare witness. This I find is our voyeuristic little secret.

It's impossible for me to accept your viewpoint as we've heard TA say outloud that he's being turned on by the thought of a twelve year old having her first orgasim.
As much as some would like to, we can't blame JA for everything that came out of his mouth.

Just noting too that I find it hard to believe that twelve year old girls are experiencing orgasims. When girls are sexual at twelve, it's usually because they've been lead down a path for somebody else's pleasure.

The thought of the sentence being uttered about twelve year old girls having orgasims as a turn on is beyond disturbing to me. It's on tape so nobody made it up - TA said it. If it's her fault, he was a chameleon too.

 

[Cate49]

I don't fully understand what you're writing. When you say PTS do you mean PTSD? Did she take the MMPI-2? If she took that test which measures a broad spectrum of a person as a whole and not just one thing then I assure you there is NO way she faked that. She can read whatever book she likes. That test is highly sophisticated which can also measure the likelihood of whether someone is lying.

A person administering test will introduce themselves as a doctor, but unlikely they are going to come right out and say I'm testing you for ptsd..If it's the MMPI-2 then it doesn't really matter because it tests for everything.. I've taken it twice, and it's not something that can be scored immediately..

If it's the MMPI - 2 this will give you an idea of how complex it is..
http://faculty.pepperdine.edu/shimels/Courses/Files/MMPI2.pdf

Ricochet yes I ment the PTST. She should have received MMPI 2. As for doctors that come in and I do not know them I do ask why they are there and what tests they are doing. Have been to many doctors for s variety of appointments.
Sorry about errors in messages. Have limited time before I loose connection to server.

 

[Cate49]

Ricochet yes I ment the PTST. She should have received MMPI 2. As for doctors that come in and I do not know them I do ask why they are there and what tests they are doing. Have been to many doctors for s variety of appointments.
Sorry about errors in messages. Have limited time before I loose connection to server.

I would love to take the MMPI-2 test myself.

 

[lil_buddy]

It's impossible for me to accept your viewpoint as we've heard TA say outloud that he's being turned on by the thought of a twelve year old having her first orgasim.
As much as some would like to, we can't blame JA for everything that came out of his mouth.

Just noting too that I find it hard to believe that twelve year old girls are experiencing orgasims. When girls are sexual at twelve, it's usually because they've been lead down a path for somebody else's pleasure.

The thought of the sentence being uttered about twelve year old girls having orgasims as a turn on is beyond disturbing to me. It's on tape so nobody made it up - TA said it. If it's her fault, he was a chameleon too.

I do not believe it is fair to judge someone by a sexual fantasy that they played out with a fellow consenting adult.

One of the MOST reported sexual fantasies by women is rape; that does not in any way mean they want to actually be raped.

And I also want to say that I did not hear TA say "that he's being turned on by the thought of a twelve year old having her first orgasim[sic]". He said JA SOUNDED like a 12 year old having her first orgasm.

ETA: People say some goofy stuff when they are trying to keep the dirty talk going. There was even an episode of Seinfeld about this like 20 years ago.