Arrest in JBR case part 2

[texasgirl]

Undoubtedly Jon Mark Karr is a person that needs to be taken off of the street before he does any more damage. Whether he is guilty in the Jon Benet killing seems somewhat like a long shot, but at least it will put his DNA in CODIS (?), and allow for prosecution. I pity the poor parents who may have hired him as a Nanny/teacher.

WOW! Me too! If anything, at least we'll get this guy off the streets.

Still hoping he's the guy, but with everything I've heard--I'm just not convinced.

BTW, I have always been on the fence unfortunately with regards to who the perp was. I go back and forth...

 

[texasgirl]

There are a good number of people who want the Ramseys to be guilty. As such, they process Karr's confession through a very selective prism. I followed this case in great detail from the initial reporting until the Aprol of 2003, when Judge Carnes issued a ninty plus page report that came as close to exonerating the Ramseys as one could expect.

Nevertheless, I have, seemingly forever, read posts regarding how the Ramsey's story didn't add up, how sick the Ramsey's looked (I can't figure out why they would have looked sick) and how their behavior betrayed their guilt.

Karr confessed. Now I am reading from how his story doesn't add up, how sick he appears (can't figure out why confessing to a murder would cause him to look sick) and how his behavior undermines a credible confession.

In my mind, more than a few people used tea-leaf reading to conclude that one or more of the Ramsey's were guilty of Jon Benet's murder, and now they choose to use the same self-serving tea-leaf readings to undercut Karr's murder confession.

This could be why tea-leaf readers are not relied on by our Courts to assess evidence. Nothwithstanding that truth, you need to understand that many people here doubt that Karr murdered Jon Benet, because they hold tightly to pre-conceived beliefs that one or more of the Ramseys were involved in her murder. Thus, in reading how people feel, you need to determine whether or not a selective prism is being used to assess Karr as the likely murderer.

Thank you Wudge. Very insightful and helpful. Will definitely keep this in mind. This case is very personal to a lot of people and it's hard to not be divided I'm sure...but it's also nice to get up to speed about how people feel about this man. Especially those who know everything there is to know about the case.

 

[Lurker Steve]

There are a good number of people who want the Ramseys to be guilty. As such, they process Karr's confession through a very selective prism. I followed this case in great detail from the initial reporting until the April of 2003, when Judge Carnes issued a ninety plus page report that came as close to exonerating the Ramseys as one could expect.

Nevertheless, I have, seemingly forever, read posts regarding how the Ramsey's story didn't add up, how sick the Ramsey's looked (I can't figure out why they would have looked sick) and how their behavior betrayed their guilt.

Karr confessed. Now I am reading from how his story doesn't add up, how sick he appears (can't figure out why confessing to a murder would cause him to look sick) and how his behavior undermines a credible confession.

In my mind, more than a few people used tea-leaf reading to conclude that one or more of the Ramseys were guilty of Jon Benet's murder, and now they choose to use the same self-serving tea-leaf readings to undercut Karr's murder confession.

This could be why tea-leaf readers are not relied on by our Courts to assess evidence. Nothwithstanding that truth, you need to understand that many people here doubt that Karr murdered Jon Benet, because they hold tightly to pre-conceived beliefs that one or more of the Ramseys were involved in her murder. Thus, in reading how people feel, you need to determine whether or not a selective prism is being used to assess Karr as the likely murderer.

:clap: Bravo!

 

[laini]

I wonder if Karr knew the basement border across teh street. Or if he knew "santa" (can't remember his name.) Yes, those two may be innocent, but I just wonder. Hopefully this will finally take suspician off of Santa and his wife.

 

[Wudge]

Undoubtedly Jon Mark Karr is a person that needs to be taken off of the street before he does any more damage. Whether he is guilty in the Jon Benet killing seems somewhat like a long shot, but at least it will put his DNA in CODIS (?), and allow for prosecution. I pity the poor parents who may have hired him as a Nanny/teacher.

I would not rate Karr as a long shot. He was charged with child in California (which is certainly worth something), he knew Jon Benet (which is certainly worth something) and he did confess to, in his mind, second-degree murder.

 

[luthersmama]

There are a good number of people who want the Ramseys to be guilty. As such, they process Karr's confession through a very selective prism. I followed this case in great detail from the initial reporting until the April of 2003, when Judge Carnes issued a ninety plus page report that came as close to exonerating the Ramseys as one could expect.

Nevertheless, I have, seemingly forever, read posts regarding how the Ramsey's story didn't add up, how sick the Ramsey's looked (I can't figure out why they would have looked sick) and how their behavior betrayed their guilt.

Karr confessed. Now I am reading from how his story doesn't add up, how sick he appears (can't figure out why confessing to a murder would cause him to look sick) and how his behavior undermines a credible confession.

In my mind, more than a few people used tea-leaf reading to conclude that one or more of the Ramseys were guilty of Jon Benet's murder, and now they choose to use the same self-serving tea-leaf readings to undercut Karr's murder confession.

This could be why tea-leaf readers are not relied on by our Courts to assess evidence. Nothwithstanding that truth, you need to understand that many people here doubt that Karr murdered Jon Benet, because they hold tightly to pre-conceived beliefs that one or more of the Ramseys were involved in her murder. Thus, in reading how people feel, you need to determine whether or not a selective prism is being used to assess Karr as the likely murderer.

Not everyone who is suspicious of the truthfulness of this confession "wants" the Ramseys to be guilty. I have never taken a position one way or the other, and am inclined to believe that they did not participate.

My opinion that this guy is a nut and this is a false confession is based entirely on what he has said and the other information about him, including the alibis and the total lack of any evidence that he ever set foot in Colorado.

No filtering here. Just calling it like I see it. If it turns out that he was in Boulder in 1996, I will happily change my opinion.

 

[tybee204]

I would not rate Karr as a long shot. He was charged with child in California (which is certainly worth something), he knew Jon Benet (which is certainly worth something) and he did confess to, in his mind, second-degree murder.

He knew Jon Benet? So far he hasnt even been placed in Colorado in 96.

 

[Buzz Mills]

I would not rate Karr as a long shot. He was charged with child in California (which is certainly worth something), he knew Jon Benet (which is certainly worth something) and he did confess to, in his mind, second degree murder.

Let's just say that John Mark Karr is at the very top of the suspects list in the murder of Jon Benet. He certainly had, beyond a morbid curiosity, with the Jon Benet case, and most likely knows everything that has been released on the case; maybe even as much, or more, as some of the very involved posters we have here on WS. His email association with Michael Tracey, the author, and the necessity he felt to write sympathy letters to Patsy Ramsey, certainly elevated him to the top of the suspects list. Whether he actually divulged facts about the case, that weren't released to the public, remains to be seen. We all hope he is actually the perpetrator so this case can be laid to rest, and the healing can begin.

 

[Wudge]

Not everyone who is suspicious of the truthfulness of this confession "wants" the Ramseys to be guilty. I have never taken a position one way or the other, and am inclined to believe that they did not participate.

My opinion that this guy is a nut and this is a false confession is based entirely on what he has said and the other information about him, including the alibis and the total lack of any evidence that he ever set foot in Colorado.

No filtering here. Just calling it like I see it. If it turns out that he was in Boulder in 1996, I will happily change my opinion.

It is certainly fair and appropriate to wait for corroboration or, in the event of a trial, to hear Karr's attorney advocate on his behalf. Though I think it is likely a plea deal will be forthcoming.

What we are currently weighing is not "proof beyond a reasonable doubt". Rather, we are assessing whether Karr's confession is, or is not, likely to be true. Given what we know now, I have not seen strong cause to doubt the truthfulness of his confession.

 

[christine2448]

OK...what is a tea-leaf reading wudge?

 

[EasyGruuvin]

Awe, I hate to hear that. I knew a brush was used but in what manner I dont know.

Henry lee stated that the handle from a paint brush was used to penitrate her vaginally which caused some hemorhaging. The paint brush had been in Patsy's art kit previously.

 

[Buzz Mills]

It is certainly fair and appropriate to wait for corroboration or, in the event of a trial, to hear Karr's attorney advocate on his behalf. Though I think it is likely a plea deal will be forthcoming.

What we are currently weighing is not "proof beyond a reasonable doubt". Rather, we are assessing whether Karr's confession is, or is not, likely to be true. Given what we know now, I have not seen strong cause to doubt the truthfulness of his confession.

Authorities will certainly want to do a lot of backtracking on Karr, to see, if he may have been involved in other predatory crimes against children. He lived in the South until 2000, or so. Can't you just imagine all of the angst, among the parents who knew him, or whose children were associated with him in any way, are going through right now. What a can of worms this is opening up. But it is always better to know, than have it kept under the rug.

 

[michelle]

Henry lee stated that the handle from a paint brush was used to penitrate her vaginally which caused some hemorhaging. The paint brush had been in Patsy's art kit previously.

I remember hearing that.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Well,there is no evidence whatsoever yet that Karr did this crime--so we must presume at this time that he is just a attention-seeking nut who appears to be physically ill

 

[michelle]

Well,there is no evidence whatsoever yet that Karr did this crime--so we must presume at this time that he is just a attention-seeking nut who appears to be physically ill

He does look sickly.

 

[dragonfly707]

Let's just say that John Mark Karr is at the very top of the suspects list in the murder of Jon Benet. He certainly had, beyond a morbid curiosity, with the Jon Benet case, and most likely knows everything that has been released on the case; maybe even as much, or more, as some of the very involved posters we have here on WS. His email association with Michael Tracey, the author, and the necessity he felt to write sympathy letters to Patsy Ramsey, certainly elevated him to the top of the suspects list. Whether he actually divulged facts about the case, that weren't released to the public, remains to be seen. We all hope he is actually the perpetrator so this case can be laid to rest, and the healing can begin.

I never really formulated any opinons as to the guilt or innocence of the parents. I was always bothered by the amount mentioned in the ransom note, and the fact that it was the exact amount of money that Mr. Ramsey had just received, that coupled with the difficult layout of the house, and the area where the body was found I felt that in the least the killer had to have had intimate knowledge of the Ramsey family.

This guy's confession that I have been watching all day bothers me, it really bothers me! There are things that simply do not add up, and as he speaks he looks at times as if he himself does not have the answers so he says "no comment".

Last night when we were all watching the news channels and surfing the net regarding him the one and only thing that stood out was that he is indeed a pedophile, and had a deep facination with this case and other cases of abducted and killed young girls, and that he manipulated the internet in order to be able to access kids. All of that in and of itself coupled with the charges here in Sonoma County really made me feel wow they probably have the guy. Untill I saw him speak to the press. It sure looks like the guy wants the limelight. But it only makes me ask more questions if he is the killer then why did he say no comment to some questions yet was willing to answer others?

 

[scandi]

Hi Wudge,

I agree completely with your post and thank you for it.

This case, seemingly above every other one I've seen sparks great passion in posters. No matter what their theory is about the case they hold to it. And they are so studied in every detail about it that it boosts the quality of every discussion group I have read, to the heights of forumdom. If you are not astute in these details you are at a disadvantage, as texasgirl has stated, and one quickly learns they need to study everything in order to have intelligent discussions.

You said "Thus, in reading how people feel, you need to determine whether or not a selective prism is being used to assess Karr as the likely murderer". In our speculation as to whether he is the killer, or not, I agree we need be open to ideas and not let our thoughts be tainted by previous beliefs we have taken on.

And to take this one step further, it is going to take one he!! of a grand attorney to defend this man if he is indighted. An attorney who can listen first, study completely and then have the charisma or penashe to be able to sell his case to the jury. It will have to be a great strategy imho.


Scandi

 

[Wudge]

OK...what is a tea-leaf reading wudge?

Rank amateurs who think their behavioral analyses of mouse farts to be highly probative of guilt would make the list.

 

[christine2448]

Rank amateurs, who think their behavioral analyses of mouse farts to be highly probative of guilt would make the list.

Ahhhh OK, thanks. Hehe.

 

[calus_3]

But it only makes me ask more questions if he is the killer then why did he say no comment to some questions yet was willing to answer others?

I think...if he did it....that he isn't going to blow his wad all in one 10 minute quip. He might be keeping certain information for bargaining power, as in to avoid the death penalty. He might be doing any number of things by holding back. If he is telling the truth and didn't really MEAN to kill her and she died during some auto-erotic choking game, then he might be holding back information until he talks to an attorney so he can get 2nd degree instead of first.

This guy just gives me the ick factor. For a pedophile to justify his obsession with the JBR case using a cover of 'writing a book' just suggests an evil, deviant mind that likes the torture of the family with the feeling of being superior. Ted Bundy complex.

I think at some point, he had to introduce himself to point out his success. I mean, he hadn't even came up on the radar until he started writing Patsy. I think personally that, when patsy died, he lost his resolve and perhaps his pleasure of torturing JBR's mom.

Who the heck knows.

I am going to rest in the fact that after all the blunders, this prosecution team wouldn't have announced everything like they did and let the supposition stick that he did it and the case was solved without a LOT of evidence. We never expected yesterdays shocking arrest so why has everyone turned in less than 24 hours just because we have many more questions than answers and evidence at this point?

As for the inconsistencies, it is possible he is lying or just plain crazy....could be guilty no less.

Cal