Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 #1

[rotterdam]

That is untrue. She said nothing to him other than she holds no hate for him. There is no way that can be construed as witness tampering. The evidence speaks for itself in that case. Did she say anything to him regarding the extortion case? No she didn't.

And the Dutch media had already reported on this so no one had to give NG a heads up, it was already out in the Dutch press. It's misleading to say that Beth arranged for NG to air this.

Of course Beth did not arrange that for NG. She did nothing wrong and had the pleasure of seeing Joran finally behind bars.
On the other hand, I would not put it past Peter de Vries, that he or one of his cohorts, notified the NG show and even fostered that arrest rumor in order to make it more news worthy. After all he has a documentaire to sell later on.

 

[otto]

The false reporting on NG about Beth being arrested, hours after she was detained for only a few minutes, was definitely headline grabbing. Debates were raging as to whether she was justifiably arrested, or her rights had been violated. Turned out it was nothing more than rumor, like the stories about two women disappearing at a casino in another country while Joran was transferring planes, and Anita arriving in Lima. All false reporting.

Peter de Vries, and other news stations, were standing outside the prison, ready to defend Beth's actions. Peter spoke with the jail warden, who was not happy about Peter's visit to the jail. People were putting hands over the camera lens to protect their rights.

 

[suzihawk]

I'm repeating what legal experts have said about Beth visiting Joran in prison. Re: the fraud charge: that she is a witness, he is the accused, and her visit to him could be construed as witness tampering. That's why many consider her visit a bad idea. Even her own lawyer has said that he would have discouraged her from the visit, and he believes she didn't tell him about it because she didn't want to hear him tell her not to do it.

I don't know what the evidence says, and no one knows what they talked about for 5 minutes. All I know is that Beth went into the prison. Joran's lawyer claims that the TV crew bribed prison employees to get Beth into the prison, and that Joran was dragged to the meeting. Joran said he couldn't talk without his lawyer, and handed Beth his lawyer's card.

I was under the impression that NG had people (JC) at the prison updating live when Beth was in the prison, but I have to admit I didn't bother watching her show.

It's true that no one knows what they did or didn't discuss - either one of them. To be fair, you can't discount what Beth allegedly said and not do the same for Joran. Just sayin'...

It's common knowledge that NG sensationalizes the 'facts' for her bombshell effect. She miscontrues the information more often than not.

 

[suzihawk]

I can understand every move that Beth has taken up until this point. I feel for her in the lose of her daughter, her quest for answers in her daughters death, and the actions of Joran she has had to endure. I think we all worried about her in that pursuit and still do.

If she wants to do a documentary on how the actions of JVS has affected so many lives and the people closely involved (the Flores family) agree to such I see no problem with it as it may help her deal with her feelings and again bring his actions to the public forefront of how we got to the point that we are.

With that being acknowledged, her going to the point of actually bribing a prison employee, if true, is stepping over the line here, and getting herself directly involved with the Flores case. It is wrong to try and place all the blame on de Vries or anyone else for her actions, she's an adult, and made the decision to go along with it. I too understand that emotional distress in the search for answers to her daughter's demise is the fuel for it all, but she needs to check herself on this decision. Emotional distress or any other reason does not justify going around trying to get in prisons without permission.
It shines a bad light on her and has people now, as we have seen, questioning every move and her reasoning.

BBM and snipped for length.

I'm confused about this. Has it been suggested that Beth hid her identity and, she herself, was smuggled into the prison?

 

[faw720]

The following is my personal opinion only. Since I am NOT a mental health professional I have no way of knowing if my opinion is realistic. If there are mental health professionals here on WS, I would be interested to know what they think of my theory.

I think that very deep down in her heart Beth hopes that someday, if she continues to confront him long enough, Joran will respond to her as a normal human would & give her information on Natalee. As I see it, Joran will never respond as a normal human being because he isn't a normal human. He is a psychopath & enjoys the control & pain that he inflicts on others. Every time Beth confronts him, especially in a daring & dangerous manner such as visiting the prison, she makes him feel more in control & he delights in her pain & suffering. In her persuit of the truth, should she overstep some legal boundry, or God forbid, cause Joran' cases to be thrown out of court, it would be his ultimate pleasure. I think poor Beth needs to heed sound legal advice & consult a mental health professional on the most effective way of dealing with a psychopathic personality, (if there is an effective way of doing so).

 

[hollyblue]

BBM and snipped for length.

I'm confused about this. Has it been suggested that Beth hid her identity and, she herself, was smuggled into the prison?

It was stated her name never appeared on the registry and that she had bribed her way in. That she met with Joran in the presence of the prison inspector, I believe. Yet, another story says the inspector "discovered and recognized de Vries" and was not happy with what was taking place. I see flaws with all the stories within each of their entirety's. Like I said before, if he was escorted out of his cell to meet her, he either knew that ahead of time or he carries his lawyer's calling card with him at all times.

The scenario that seems the most believable to me, is that it was visiting day for the females and she somehow tried to get in that way by bribing a guard. From my understanding, he has a list of all people who are allowed access to him....and I really don't think Beth's name ...nor de Vries would be among them. Can you see a scenario where JVS would agree to this? I'm being serious and trying to look at all angles here.

Either this was a well orchestrated plan to have this meeting....(who and who all is involved, I couldn't begin to guess at this point, but pick a name out of the hat!) put the honest on the prison system, albeit, with a little moola stuffed under a door, a convenient hand slide or pocket stuffed, and waala it magically happens....we really would never know the difference or if someone did really get in trouble for it. ??? OR, she did just bribe someone to get access to him and make it past that registry. Maybe we'll see a statement from one of the prison officials to "explain it".

It also seems pretty obvious at this point that NG had at least prior knowledge...now whether that came from someone in Peru thru JC or it came from someone attached to Beth or de Vries....there again pick from the hat, but it took more than 15 minutes prior knowledge to put all those "collages" of the case up and get the people who have talked about this case previous "on the line" to talk about it. No way did she "just learn" of it minutes before broadcasting.

This is the type of thing that convinced me to stay away from Caylee and Hailee's cases. It gets enmeshed with media BS and drives me away, because that's not how I want my justice system to work; granting it does make for interesting viewing, ....but not absorbing myself in it. I could go on....but I'll spare you.

Either way, not a good choice on her part. imo. I guess I just don't want Beth to get hurt...as she's been hurt enough....and to exit this BS years from now...along with her obvious suffering....can do a real trip on you. She goes home reeling from it all and the media goes on to another story. The media is a double-edge sword.

Question for you from the case in the beginning: Did Joran or the family ever get a restraining order against Beth? Just curious, because it was stated this was the first time she had confronted Joran since the very beginning. TIA Sorry for the book length response......

 

[hollyblue]

The following is my personal opinion only. Since I am NOT a mental health professional I have no way of knowing if my opinion is realistic. If there are mental health professionals here on WS, I would be interested to know what they think of my theory.

I think that very deep down in her heart Beth hopes that someday, if she continues to confront him long enough, Joran will respond to her as a normal human would & give her information on Natalee. As I see it, Joran will never respond as a normal human being because he isn't a normal human. He is a psychopath & enjoys the control & pain that he inflicts on others. Every time Beth confronts him, especially in a daring & dangerous manner such as visiting the prison, she makes him feel more in control & he delights in her pain & suffering. In her persuit of the truth, should she overstep some legal boundry, or God forbid, cause Joran' cases to be thrown out of court, it would be his ultimate pleasure. I think poor Beth needs to heed sound legal advice & consult a mental health professional on the most effective way of dealing with a psychopathic personality, (if there is an effective way of doing so).

Seems to me you basically agree with what Otto and I have said these past few days and many on here have talked about "his way of thinking" on the other threads. Even the best psychiatrists in the field get schmoozed by his kind...and there are no meds, no therapy.. for a cure...at this point. Like Otto stated, it's the highly functional ones that are so "bad" because they can go undetected.

 

[suzihawk]

Question for you from the case in the beginning: Did Joran or the family ever get a restraining order against Beth? Just curious, because it was stated this was the first time she had confronted Joran since the very beginning.

<snipped>

That's a good question. I don't recall ever hearing about a restraining order and I don't think there was one. I could be wrong. This is one of the reasons this is so puzzling to me. She's had numerous opportunities to confront him and hasn't done so before now, to my knowledge. Maybe she attempted to and was ignored or turned away. I dunno. This time she had a captive audience, sotaspeak.

 

[Patty G]

There isn't much information out there regarding the "sting" operation when Beth, John Q Kelly, perhaps John Ramsey as well as the former detective went to Aruba to meet with Joran over the Easter weekend. Did Beth sit in front of Joran at that time or was she in another room just observing?

 

[panthera]

The following is my personal opinion only. Since I am NOT a mental health professional I have no way of knowing if my opinion is realistic. If there are mental health professionals here on WS, I would be interested to know what they think of my theory.

I think that very deep down in her heart Beth hopes that someday, if she continues to confront him long enough, Joran will respond to her as a normal human would & give her information on Natalee. As I see it, Joran will never respond as a normal human being because he isn't a normal human. He is a psychopath & enjoys the control & pain that he inflicts on others. Every time Beth confronts him, especially in a daring & dangerous manner such as visiting the prison, she makes him feel more in control & he delights in her pain & suffering. In her persuit of the truth, should she overstep some legal boundry, or God forbid, cause Joran' cases to be thrown out of court, it would be his ultimate pleasure. I think poor Beth needs to heed sound legal advice & consult a mental health professional on the most effective way of dealing with a psychopathic personality, (if there is an effective way of doing so).

I couldn't agree more. I believe he takes pleasure in making her miserable, and will continue to do so as long as she is alive. I also believe he totaly enjoys the media attention and her visit to the prison gave him just what he enjoys most ~ being in the headlines again. MOO

 

[hollyblue]

Holloway's mom confronted Van der Sloot in jail

"Nothing, nothing at all, was done by Peter, Beth and the crew that was in conflict with previously made agreements and rules in Peru or the Castro Castro prison," the website said. The AP was unable to reach De Vries for elaboration.

Read more: http://www.macon.com/2010/09/17/1268090/lawyer-holloways-mom-confronted.html#ixzz101wM3UuS

I guess making agreements is where they had been the other days of being in Peru. ???

 

[camcneishg]

Here is my take on this whole deal......call me crazy....but I am just guessing here....
Peter DeVries did what he does best....he uncovered something of importance that would give Beth the upper hand.....my guess on this is that he found Paulus ALIVE and well in another country somewhere.....Beth then went to confront Joran with this news, to find where Natalee is.....then off to Aruba to confront Anita and LE.....now this would be a bombshell! Again, I am just guessing....but it makes perfect sense to me...just wanted to share....MO

 

[Lola]

Here is my take on this whole deal......call me crazy....but I am just guessing here....
Peter DeVries did what he does best....he uncovered something of importance that would give Beth the upper hand.....my guess on this is that he found Paulus ALIVE and well in another country somewhere.....Beth then went to confront Joran with this news, to find where Natalee is.....then off to Aruba to confront Anita and LE.....now this would be a bombshell! Again, I am just guessing....but it makes perfect sense to me...just wanted to share....MO

Don't hold much with the Paulus is alive theory, but I do think Peter has something new and relevant. He has way too much to lose by doing some hackneyed documentary.

 

[FLNY]

OK...I really don't want to start any rumors, but my first thought when glancing at the picture of Peter de Vries and Beth Twitty in this article .... was that they are holding hands.

But, it could be that the stop action camera shot just happened to grab their hands in this position, as they were both swinging their arms independently.

So, what do you think???

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localn...umentary/YPBJU_T6IkagbWnjZq-2JA.cspx?rss=1659

 

[faw720]

Oh my...................

It's hard to tell which of your scenarios it is. But if they are holding hands, it will probably make the news big time.

 

[myzzy]

Looks to me that the camera hit right at the time their hands crossed and because its a distance shot i tend to think it gave the illusion of holding hands

 

[suzihawk]

It looks like it's just the camera angle to me. But you can rest assured knowing there will be plenty of people trying to turn the picture into a huge scandal. Anything to sully Beth's name.

 

[Kamille]

Considering the book that is due out soon and the movie that is being filmed, both being done by people who are favourable to JVS,I really wouldn't blame BH one bit for wanting to be involved in any "counter" type documentary that PDV might have suggested to her to offset what will likely be a lot of misinformation coming out about her daughter's case. Since the book and the movie will be released in the Netherlands, it's likely that PDV is the only person there who can help BH get her side of the story out to the people of that country in their native language.

But considering the extortion case, and that BH is the complaintant, it's too bad that the two of them didn't appear to seek legal counsel before choosing to do this. I'm sure they would have been advised against it and it doesn't appear that they got anything that is useful to them for the documentary for their trouble and may have caused possible future problems with the extortion case. They just don't seem to be going about this in a very positive way, especially if they also tried to trick Stephany's brother into being part of it by turning the cameras on him when he came to see BH.

I wonder if they were planning on chatting with the Kalpoe brothers when they headed to Aruba? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[georger]

[
I wonder if they were planning on chatting with the Kalpoe brothers when they headed to Aruba? :waitasec:

MOO[/quote]

I dont think the media has Judges, Courts, or the power of physical
restraint? Last time I check thats the way it was! Maybe by next year
it will all be the same merged and people will go to media School to get
a Law degree, and have to pass media exams?

The Kalpo brothers have been on my mind continually, since Steph was
murdered. I guess their status is free-and-clear. They sued Dr Phil for
defammation however they continue to purposefully fudge on their Visa's
so they cant even come to the US to a trial. A couple of snakes. I had
always hoped the Kalopes could be leveraged, but I guess not, which
could mean their risk of culpability outweighs their usefulness? That's ok.
There is more than one way to skin a snake, and snakes can't run, only
crawl and hide in holes.

If the Arubans ever cough anyone up it will be the Kalpo brothers.
Joran could turn on them also. Joran could spin a yarn about the
Kalpoes and pass it to 'helmet hair' which would have the Kalpoes
in instant trouble. I am sure they are aware of this and molt every week
just considering the odds. Joran has to be pleased he has these two sheep
to turn to in a real crisis! Two in hand is worth 50 in the bush and it could get
Joran time off. Im sure Joran and Anita have thought of this. It wouldnt be the
first time Joran threw someone off the brigde.

 

[Levi]

We are going to be discussing Beth's meeting with Joran and her recent trip to Aruba tonight at 9 PM ET! Listen here: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/09/21/levi-page-show