Aruba - Natalee Holloway, 18, Oranjestad, 30 May 2005 *AL extortion trial* *Guilty* #3

[cocomod]

"The Van der Sloot family lives in Aruba, where the interview with Anita van der Sloot was conducted. She told the newspaper her son disappeared in mid-May, two days before he was scheduled to travel to the Netherlands for treatment in a mental institution. He left a note saying he was going to Peru, she said."​

March 24, 2014

Local – NBC Boston

In-depth news coverage of the Greater Boston and New England area.

www.necn.com

Wow! Thanks for this! I didn't know this part of the story

 

[NuttMegg]

Just curious, he did kill Stephany Flores Ramírez... Same motive with Natalee?? He is a violent man who would kill if he didn't get his way. MOO

From what I've read the situations were really different. Also at age 17 he was being accused of being a rapist and killer, on American TV. I don't think we can do that to American kids, or risk a huge lawsuit. We don't know if he "didn't get his way" with Natalee, then killed her. We don't even know if anyone killed her.

With Stephany, news reports say he caught her using his laptop when he came back from getting coffee, and he killed her. We posted lots about that murder, above. Iirc, Peruvian police analyzed the computer activity and there was no browsing activity relating to Natalee, the anniversary of her death, disappearance, etc.

So in the 2 different situations I don't see any "he didn't get his way" scenario. that we know of.

from what Otto posted, sounds like he was spiraling down on his trip to Peru and relatives were trying to get him mental health treatment. And his father, in training for a judgeship, had just died, his father also having been accused Online of murder, hiding body, etc. No one will know how much, if any, that led to his heart attack.

Imo

 

[otto]

Just curious, he did kill Stephany Flores Ramírez... Same motive with Natalee?? He is a violent man who would kill if he didn't get his way. MOO

Going from memory ... I recall that v.d.Sloot was aggressive with his brothers and he was in counselling with a psychologist to self-regulate his emotions. My impression from following the murders in 2005 and 2010 is that v.d.Sloot has a 0-100 temper in seconds. I believe he killed both Natalee and Stephanie the same way - abrupt violent beating.

He did murder Stephany Flores in his hotel room, then fled to Chile.

Video Joran van der Sloot slips away to Peru, kills woman in a hotel room: Part 7

Stephany Flores, a university student and daughter of a former presidential candidate, was beaten to death by van der Sloot in Lima, Peru, five years to the day after Natalee Holloway went missing.

abcnews.go.com

 

[NuttMegg]

You guys aren't going to believe this but I was vacationing in a city he went through on his fleeing S of Lima. Iirc he paid a taxi to the Chile/Peru border, then buses from there down south, way down to some town on the Pacific Ocean coast about the latitude of Santiago in Chile where they apprehended him and returned him to Peru. It was surreal learning he went right down the highway near where I had been staying.

 

[otto]

I had a very difficult time believing that a 17 year old from a good home (father: lawyer/prosecutor, mother: school art teacher) could murder Natalee and hide her body so well that she was never found. It wasn't until there was absolute proof that he killed Stephanie that I believed he also killed Natalee.

There were many stories/theories about how he disposed of Natalee's body. One theory was that he put her body in a crab trap and somehow got her past the shallow shelf into the deep ocean. Another was that he put her body in the Island incinerator. Others wondered whether she was put into the bird sanctuary. Some believed that he acted alone, others suspected that he had an accomplice. People studied the ocean currents to try to understand whether her body would float to shore or disappear into the ocean. I absolutely do not believe that his father knew what v.d.Sloot did, but he was worried that his son might be the victim of vigilantes. It was a tense atmosphere between local authorities and Natalee's family in the months after the disappearance.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Violent killers don't necessarily need a "motive" to commit murder.

Sometimes they just seem to want to terrorize someone and feel that level of power. It doesn't have to make any sense.
MOO.

 

[NuttMegg]

I had a very difficult time believing that a 17 year old from a good home (father: lawyer/prosecutor, mother: school art teacher) could murder Natalee and hide her body so well that she was never found. It wasn't until there was absolute proof that he killed Stephanie that I believed he also killed Natalee.

There were many stories/theories about how he disposed of Natalee's body. One theory was that he put her body in a crab trap and somehow got her past the shallow shelf into the deep ocean. Another was that he put her body in the Island incinerator. Others wondered whether she was put into the bird sanctuary. Some believed that he acted alone, others suspected that he had an accomplice. People studied the ocean currents to try to understand whether her body would float to shore or disappear into the ocean. I absolutely do not believe that his father knew what v.d.Sloot did, but he was worried that his son might be the victim of vigilantes. It was a tense atmosphere between local authorities and Natalee's family in the months after the disappearance.

I think any theory that involves dealing with her body on land on Aruba can't be valid, there was just too much searching. Iirc they gave days off so employees could search, and iirc Dave H spent more than 2 months continuously searching the island, with help from others. In addition to all the LE searching.
i remember researching the tides, the currents, but I never bought the idea she was left on the beach and rolled over into the ocean.
Had she been left on land, vultures would have been a clue.
in Alaska everyone would assume the use of a crab pot in deep water, but I don't know anything about the size of crab pots in the Caribbean, if they even exist. I can't see him dumping her with a weight, ala Peterson, eventually she would have been found. She had to have been enclosed. I still wonder about that nearest port in Venezuela, I would assume the crossing was well known by fishermen, those dealing in contraband, etc.

The weird thing is if there had been accomplices with a boat, they would have had to have been paid a lot or why risk it.






Imo

 

[otto]

I think any theory that involves dealing with her body on land on Aruba can't be valid, there was just too much searching. Iirc they gave days off so employees could search, and iirc Dave H spent more than 2 months continuously searching the island, with help from others. In addition to all the LE searching.
i remember researching the tides, the currents, but I never bought the idea she was left on the beach and rolled over into the ocean.
Had she been left on land, vultures would have been a clue.
in Alaska everyone would assume the use of a crab pot in deep water, but I don't know anything about the size of crab pots in the Caribbean, if they even exist. I can't see him dumping her with a weight, ala Peterson, eventually she would have been found. She had to have been enclosed. I still wonder about that nearest port in Venezuela, I would assume the crossing was well known by fishermen, those dealing in contraband, etc.

The weird thing is if there had been accomplices with a boat, they would have had to have been paid a lot or why risk it.

Imo

I think accomplices are unlikely. v.d.Sloot was dropped off at the beach with Natalee, and the Kalpoe brothers went home. Something happened - very likely a sudden violent temper - similar to what he did to Stephanie. He had a couple of days to destroy evidence, including Natalee's body, before he was identified as the last person she was with.

"At that moment, impulsively, with my right elbow. I hit her in the face exactly on top of her nose," van der Sloot said, according to his confession

"I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute," he told investigators."​

Joran van der Sloot's Graphic Murder Confession

Joran van der Sloot said he strangled and beat Stephany Flores before killing her by smothering her with his bloody shirt.

abcnews.go.com

 

[NuttMegg]

This one says he will be in the USA through all appeals.

Here's what we know about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway

As the main suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway begins the judicial process of extradition to Alabama from Peru, her family still looks for justice after never finding their daughter's body.

www.wvtm13.com

 

[Mica]

Going from memory ... I recall that v.d.Sloot was aggressive with his brothers and he was in counselling with a psychologist to self-regulate his emotions. My impression from following the murders in 2005 and 2010 is that v.d.Sloot has a 0-100 temper in seconds. I believe he killed both Natalee and Stephanie the same way - abrupt violent beating.

He did murder Stephany Flores in his hotel room, then fled to Chile.

Video Joran van der Sloot slips away to Peru, kills woman in a hotel room: Part 7

Stephany Flores, a university student and daughter of a former presidential candidate, was beaten to death by van der Sloot in Lima, Peru, five years to the day after Natalee Holloway went missing.

abcnews.go.com

IIRC, eerily, he killed Stephany Flores on the 5th year anniversary of Natalee’s death.

 

[otto]

This one says he will be in the USA through all appeals.

Here's what we know about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway

As the main suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway begins the judicial process of extradition to Alabama from Peru, her family still looks for justice after never finding their daughter's body.

www.wvtm13.com

From your link ... with appeals, and trial delays, it sounds like he could spend several years in an Alabama prison prior to completing his Peru sentence. First, v.d.Sloot is going to appeal extradition to Alabama.

"The time that van der Sloot ends up spending in the U.S. “will be extended until the conclusion of the criminal proceedings,” including the appeal process should there be one, according to the published resolution. The resolution also states that U.S. authorities have agreed to return the suspect to the custody of Peru afterward.
...

The time frame for the extradition process is unclear, including when van der Sloot will arrive in Alabama. Cumberland School of Law professor John Carroll said just getting to this point has taken 18 years, and getting through this case won't be quick either.

“First of all, we've got to get him here," Carroll said. "And so, I’ve read statements from his lawyer in Peru that he's going to fight that. So that may take some time. And once he gets here, you know, he'll be treated just like any other criminal defendant, probably given the way the justice system runs now.”

 

[otto]

IIRC, eerily, he killed Stephany Flores on the 5th year anniversary of Natalee’s death.

... to the day! It was shocking news at the time. I think it removed all doubt that anyone had about v.d.Sloot murdering Natalee.

It's quite likely that he quickly blew the $25k gambling and needed more money. Stephanie was winning at the casino, so he invited her to his hotel room. He murdered her, and then attempted to stage the scene to imply that someone else murdered her while he picked up coffee. That didn't work. It appears that he first realized that there were cameras in the hotel after he returned with two coffee in the morning (after Stephanie was deceased).

Going back to the wire fraud charges, I'm curious how v.d.Sloot will respond. He's clever, and he was raised by a father with a highly trained legal mind. I'm curious whether Joe Tacopina will continue to represent him.

 

[Cryptic]

Just curious, he did kill Stephany Flores Ramírez... Same motive with Natalee??

No- at least I dont think so.

My understanding is that Stephany was doing some free lance (or perhaps distantly and inexpensively sponsored) investigative reporting into Natalee's the circumstances surrounding Natalee's murder. This apparently involved contacting and be-friending Van Der Sloot.

Van der Sloot is then said to have learned her motives and then murdered the poor girl in a rage over what he viewed was a betrayal, not due to what she might have discovered about Natalee per se.

As with some reporters who wind up in the hands of terror groups, Stephany's journalism might not of been well supported resource wise. Likewise, the methodology might not have been well thought out given how dangerous the subject was.

 

[Mica]

Joran confessed he killed Stephany because she hit him first.

Confession: Joran van der Sloot describes killing Stephany Flores

He says he was angry but can't explain why he killed the young Peruvian woman

www.al.com

 

[Mica]

Joran also told investigators he attacked Stephany after she read an e-mail on his computer connecting him to Natalee. This story was debunked after an analysis of his computer.

Source: Van der Sloot lied about laptop use in killing

The laptop belonging to Joran Van der Sloot was turned off the night he is suspected of having killed a young Peruvian woman in Lima, suggesting he lied to investigators when he said he attacked her after she read an e-mail on his computer connecting him to missing American teenager, Natalee...

www.cnn.com

 

[otto]

Joran also told investigators he attacked Stephany after she read an e-mail on his computer connecting him to Natalee. This story was debunked after an analysis of his computer.

Source: Van der Sloot lied about laptop use in killing

The laptop belonging to Joran Van der Sloot was turned off the night he is suspected of having killed a young Peruvian woman in Lima, suggesting he lied to investigators when he said he attacked her after she read an e-mail on his computer connecting him to missing American teenager, Natalee...

www.cnn.com

Nothing v.d.Sloot says can be believed. v.d.Sloot convinced the Kalpoe brothers to lie on his behalf and claim that Natalee was dropped off at her hotel. That put the Kalpoe brothers in the middle of a murder investigation even though they left Natalee alive and well on the beach with v.d.Sloot.

v.d.Sloot is a clever, manipulative, compulsive liar. Of course he will blame the victim for their murder. He claims that Stephanie provoked him and he lashed out with an elbow to her face. It's more likely that he saw her win a substantial amount at the casino and he wanted her money. He did steal her money before fleeing to Chile.

He also claimed that Natalee said something about her family owning a plantation at some point in history, and making unusual comments about Hitler. He claims that while they were on the beach together she went into convulsions. There may be some truth to that. It almost seems that in each of v.d.Sloots lies, there is a small piece of truth. If he hit her hard in the head with his elbow, she could very well have gone into convulsions. (see: example)

 

[Mica]

Snip…

George Patriot Seymore, a spokesperson for Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, told Fox News Digital that the extradition will happen within a week. “A matter of days to a week," Seymore said. "The process is underway."

snip…

"In regard to Mr. (Joran) van der Sloot, we have made a temporary relocation to the United States, because he is condemned here, and he must serve his sentence here. But since the U.S. needs him in order to face trial and the authorities told us that if he didn't get there sooner, the case against him could be dropped because the witnesses are elderly. We are contributing so he can go there to be tried and sentenced, and come back to Peru to serve his sentence here. Once he finishes his sentence in Peru, he’ll go to the U.S. to serve his corresponding sentence there," Maurate said.

more…

Natalee Holloway case: Joran van der Sloot's extradition to US could be imminent

Joran van der Sloot, who's the primary suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, may be extradited imminently, according to a spokesperson.

www.foxnews.com

 

[otto]

I'm just thinking out loud ... but if v.d.Sloot wants to appeal the Peru extradition decision, does he have to demonstrate that there are no grounds for filing USA charges in the context of Peru law, or Aruba law?

I'm curious ... what is the law in Peru, or Aruba (where wire fraud occurred), regarding police conducting sting operations on down and out gambling addicts who might have committed murder? Give the addict $25k to see what he does next? Is it a violation of law to influence behaviour of a gambling addict and suspected murderer with money?

He was down and out and on the verge of being committed to a psychiatric facility and, two days prior to his flight - where he would be institutionalized by his family for life, he was gifted $25k and the invitation to leave the Island. He was not under arrest, he was not a restricted suspect. He took the money and decided to have fun in Peru. He flew to Peru, lost the money, went to the casino and zeroed in on a winner because he needed more money. Perhaps he zeroed in because he thought he could get away with murder twice. Days prior to the 5th anniversary of Natalee's disappearance, did v.d.Sloot go to Peru to blow $25k and remember the murder of Natalee Holloway?

He seemed to have a plan of luring her, murdering her, getting coffee in the morning, pretending to be locked out of the room, hoping the concierge would see the body and think she was murdered while v.d.Sloot was getting coffee. That was his plan, until he saw the camera in the hallway - pointed at him. Then he fled.

I'm curious to see on what grounds v.d.Sloot appeals his extradition. Now is when he really needs his father, but he gave his father a heart attack with his bizarre behaviour. A good USA lawyer is needed to work with his Peru lawyer to make the right argument ... thinking out loud ... curious what happens next.

 

[otto]

Snip…

George Patriot Seymore, a spokesperson for Natalee Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway, told Fox News Digital that the extradition will happen within a week. “A matter of days to a week," Seymore said. "The process is underway."

snip…

"In regard to Mr. (Joran) van der Sloot, we have made a temporary relocation to the United States, because he is condemned here, and he must serve his sentence here. But since the U.S. needs him in order to face trial and the authorities told us that if he didn't get there sooner, the case against him could be dropped because the witnesses are elderly. We are contributing so he can go there to be tried and sentenced, and come back to Peru to serve his sentence here. Once he finishes his sentence in Peru, he’ll go to the U.S. to serve his corresponding sentence there," Maurate said.

more…

Natalee Holloway case: Joran van der Sloot's extradition to US could be imminent

Joran van der Sloot, who's the primary suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, may be extradited imminently, according to a spokesperson.

www.foxnews.com

It sounds like he has no grounds to appeal the extradiction.

 

[justtrish]

I had a very difficult time believing that a 17 year old from a good home (father: lawyer/prosecutor, mother: school art teacher) could murder Natalee and hide her body so well that she was never found. It wasn't until there was absolute proof that he killed Stephanie that I believed he also killed Natalee.

There were many stories/theories about how he disposed of Natalee's body. One theory was that he put her body in a crab trap and somehow got her past the shallow shelf into the deep ocean. Another was that he put her body in the Island incinerator. Others wondered whether she was put into the bird sanctuary. Some believed that he acted alone, others suspected that he had an accomplice. People studied the ocean currents to try to understand whether her body would float to shore or disappear into the ocean. I absolutely do not believe that his father knew what v.d.Sloot did, but he was worried that his son might be the victim of vigilantes. It was a tense atmosphere between local authorities and Natalee's family in the months after the disappearance.

I couldn't imagine how a body could disappear on an island either until I moved to one. It is disturbing to consider, but people who aren't murdered disappear in the ocean and are never found. I would imagine somehow disposing of her in the water could have prevented her from ever surfacing or washing ashore.