ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[neesaki]

What I see is two cases

Two blondes, one eighteen and one thirty five or so, same sex, same location

One meets up with a local Dutchman, one travels to Aruba with her American date

To the best of my knowledge, no proof of drugs in Holloway case? Robin brings her own pills

And I am sorry but I don't recall that history of date rape?
But I am sure you have a link in the holloway thread


You know that the car was given back to the rental company and not searched because that first night there was not thought to be a crime

And according to many posts here, searching began immediately


Erasing records? Are you speaking of GGs home computer?
Never picked up by MSN and apparently that is the only reliable source used here



I am so willing to listen to any evidence anyone has about corruption in THIS case
At this point in time, i don't see an links about this pertaining to gardner, which is why we are here

Given proper links and reports on THIS case, I could easily change my mind I am open to anything that is not rumour, or opinion only

You see, I would love to see the truth come out so that RGs family could have peace of mind

GG? I couldn't care one way way or the other, guilty or innocent, doesn't matter to me as long as the truth comes out

I laid out my thoughts on the comparisons and parallels in the two cases, I don't see any point in changing or adding to my post.

It is my thoughts and my opinions that evolved over time as a result of what I have learned by following and researching Robyn's and the NH case. They both took place in Aruba, under the jurisdiction of Aruban LE. Both cases have problems, imo.

And that's all it is, is my opinion. You can take it or leave it, doesn't matter either way to me.

 

[katydid23]

Nothing's been reported about GG and Robyn going to the Casinos before she disappeared, but it's hard to believe that they didn't. If so GG could easily have met up with someone there in complete privacy. Also, I doubt that we'll ever hear of any witnesses that saw them there, or see any videos of them in the Casinos such as the one that was leaked to the media in the NH case.

I doubt they went to any casinos. They were pouring vodka into cups from the parking lot and going back into the restaurants. They were vacationing on the cheap---he got the vacation deals from his frequent flyer miles or something., He had no money to spend in any casinos and neither did she, imo.

 

[Dushi]

I laid out my thoughts on the comparisons and parallels in the two cases, I don't see any point in changing or adding to my post.

It is my thoughts and my opinions that evolved over time as a result of what I have learned by following and researching Robyn's and the NH case. They both took place in Aruba, under the jurisdiction of Aruban LE. Both cases have problems, imo.

And that's all it is, is my opinion. You can take it or leave it, doesn't matter either way to me.

Thats great
no need to debate it further

Thank you for your thoughts

 

[Dushi]

There is also a helipad up by the California Lighthouse at the Ventanas del Mar Restaurant.


http://www.arubahelitours.com/fly-dine.php

Yes, That restaurant is located at the Tierra del Sol club

 

[LambChop]

From what I saw while I was down there LE was actively, very actively searching for NH. I was there for three weeks, 5 days after she went missing. As far as sharing information with the public and the defendant's attorney that is how they run their judicial system and I believe it is based on the system in Holland. NH's parents were not able to get information and it is no different in this case but it's their rules and that part of it has nothing to do with corruption, IMO. JVS' father was an attorney running for a judge's position so it does appear there was some influence from the father in that case. At least it appears that way to most people. The fact JVS was never arrested in Aruba after his confession that was taped by a friend is also disturbing.

GG is an American who came into the country with another American and claims she drowned. GG is the only one who really knows what happened to RG and it has nothing to do with the Arubans. They're just stuck trying to deal with him. Authorities could have ruled it an accidential drowning and just let him go if they were trying cover up something illegal. jmo

 

[Dushi]

From what I saw while I was down there LE was actively, very actively searching for NH. I was there for three weeks, 5 days after she went missing. As far as sharing information with the public and the defendant's attorney that is how they run their judicial system and I believe it is based on the system in Holland. NH's parents were not able to get information and it is no different in this case but it's their rules and that part of it has nothing to do with corruption, IMO. JVS' father was an attorney running for a judge's position so it does appear there was some influence from the father in that case. At least it appears that way to most people. The fact JVS was never arrested in Aruba after his confession that was taped by a friend is also disturbing.

GG is an American who came into the country with another American and claims she drowned. GG is the only one who really knows what happened to RG and it has nothing to do with the Arubans. They're just stuck trying to deal with him. Authorities could have ruled it an accidential drowning and just let him go if they were trying cover up something illegal. jmo

Yes, that is how I see it also
IMO, they did what they could with the little they had

 

[neesaki]

Thats great
no need to debate it further

Thank you for your thoughts

Actually it's just part of sleuthing. Looking at a case from all angles and leaving no stones unturned; not just viewing it through a single prism.

 

[Saracen]

I think that if we are going to talk about corruption its wise to define what it is and where it comes from.It is not from the ordinary people of a country or island, weather it be in europe,Africa,Asia or America, corruption comes from people with power.We have had corrupt police officers in the UK's capital in the last year, government ministers are also corrupt worldwide, if you dig deep enough you will find it. A simple equation is;

Power and greed = corruption
Ordinary people = despair.

 

[LambChop]

I think that if we are going to talk about corruption its wise to define what it is and where it comes from.It is not from the ordinary people of a country or island, weather it be in europe,Africa,Asia or America, corruption comes from people with power.We have had corrupt police officers in the UK's capital in the last year, government ministers are also corrupt worldwide, if you dig deep enough you will find it. A simple equation is;

Power and greed = corruption
Ordinary people = despair.

Foreigner's who own businesses in Aruba have to employ an Aruban, from my understanding of what I have been told by a number of merchants. The Aruban does not have to do anything if they choose not to. They can just sit there all day in a shop and not lift a finger to do anything, it's there choice. Most of them do physical work for their employers but they are not obligated to do so. I don't consider that corruption it's just a way to guarantee all Arubans have jobs.

The income taxes are also very high if you are an American and live on the island. Aruba takes a large chunk of any income you make while working there. And again, foreigner's are welcome to come and open a business or work but they are going to pay a high price to do so.

I don't think you can compare NH's case with RG's because the suspect is an American who just happened to pick Aruba because RG would not go on a cruise with him. Had she taken the cruise we would be talking about the cruise lines now instead of Aruba.

How ironic that GG just happened to pick two vacation spots where falling overbroad and drowning is not uncommon and Aruba where a victum drowning would also have not been that uncommon. I asked a local a couple of years ago how many drownings they have and he said a couple a year, with their bodies recovered. jmo

 

[Dushi]

Lambchop

At one time in Aruba, to own a business, you had to have an aruban partner, even if only on paper
Has that law changed?

 

[LambChop]

Lambchop

At one time in Aruba, to own a business, you had to have an aruban partner, even if only on paper
Has that law changed?

No. I was told this recently, too. It may no longer be a law, I am not sure of that, but there is a clear understanding that foreigners must provide a job for an Aruban. As far as a partner, I was not told that only that they had to provide a job for an Aruban. But I can ask when I'm down there. There are a lot of foreign merchants in Aruba. jmo

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Foreigner's who own businesses in Aruba have to employ an Aruban, from my understanding of what I have been told by a number of merchants. The Aruban does not have to do anything if they choose not to. They can just sit there all day in a shop and not lift a finger to do anything, it's there choice. Most of them do physical work for their employers but they are not obligated to do so. I don't consider that corruption it's just a way to guarantee all Arubans a job. jmo

Well here I must disagree with your opinion. This seems to be a coersionary tactic used by Aruba for the benefit of Arubans only. How is that not a corrupt use of power and the law. It is a form of bribery. It is akin to a "pay-Off"." Pay us protection money or your business goes up in smoke", sound familiar?That is a blatant page out of the" mob" play book. Pay Arubans or take your business elsewhere.

It is one thing to want work for Arubans, but why should a foreigner be "forced" to hire someone who has no intention of working? Apparently foreigners are not wanted in Aruba to "Make" money, only to "spend" money.
True "corruption" is everywhere, but the % of corruption in relationship to the size of that tiny island might be very questionable.

IMOO--The Natalie Holloway case (reference only) was directly a corrupt investigation due to the "political" connections of the father of JVS. I think that was blatantly obvious. In the case of RG, I do not believe there is anything to suggest there is a personal abuse of power. Just a very ineffective "Use" of power.....but then that is JMO!

 

[LambChop]

Well here I must disagree with your opinion. This seems to be a coersionary tactic used by Aruba for the benefit of Arubans only. How is that not a corrupt use of power and the law. It is a form of bribery. It is akin to a "pay-Off"." Pay us protection money or your business goes up in smoke", sound familiar?That is a blatant page out of the" mob" play book. Pay Arubans or take your business elsewhere.

It is one thing to want work for Arubans, but why should a foreigner be "forced" to hire someone who has no intention of working? Apparently foreigners are not wanted in Aruba to "Make" money, only to "spend" money.
True "corruption" is everywhere, but the % of corruption in relationship to the size of that tiny island might be very questionable.

IMOO--The Natalie Holloway case (reference only) was directly a corrupt investigation due to the "political" connections of the father of JVS. I think that was blatantly obvious. In the case of RG, I do not believe there is anything to suggest there is a personal abuse of power. Just a very ineffective "Use" of power.....but then that is JMO!

No one has ever forced a foreign merchant into coming to Aruba under false pretenses. There is no one holding a gun to your head in Aruba to hire an Aruban and if you don't your business will go "up in smoke". It is a legal binding agreement between the merchant and the government. Very much like a tax you would have to pay to do business. It is to protect the native Arubans from unemployment due to foreign nationals. No Aruban is unemployed unless he chooses to be. I think that is pretty impressive. Take a walk downtown or up to the high rise area in Aruba and tell me those foreign merchants are suffering. They are making money big time and they want to be there.

We pay taxes here in the US and sometimes we feel we are overtaxed on certain items. It's just business as usual and I'm sure Aruba is not the first island to use this type of arrangement to protect their citizens from foreign companies bringing in their own workers. FYI, they can bring workers in from their native lands as long as they provide a job to an Aruban. Look at what we are faced with today in the US with all the jobs going out to other countries. Aruba is just protecting their own and wouldn't we all be criticizing them if they didn't do that. Look at the poverty on other islands that don't ensure their citizens have jobs. Do we care about that? No, as long as we can go there, enjoy their beaches and not have to worry about being bothered by the locals. Aruba is not like that because the govenment has taken steps to protect their own citizens against influences from the outside. Those merchants are not there to specifically help the Aruban community but to make money and send some of it back home. And they manage to do that.

I think Aruba has done an amazing job of trying to protect visitors. They have put up windmills to lower the electrical costs, recycle all their trash and garbage, desalinate ocean water to provide clean, healthy, drinkable water, etc. But as far as the foreign merchants suffering. They live in beautiful homes in an island paradise where many people would give their right arm to live there. jmo

 

[Dushi]

My understanding of a foreigner owning a business was that you had to have an aruban partner
That partner could be an active participant or a silent partner

Obviously i was wrong

 

[Dushi]

Well here I must disagree with your opinion. This seems to be a coersionary tactic used by Aruba for the benefit of Arubans only. How is that not a corrupt use of power and the law. It is a form of bribery. It is akin to a "pay-Off"." Pay us protection money or your business goes up in smoke", sound familiar?That is a blatant page out of the" mob" play book. Pay Arubans or take your business elsewhere.

It is one thing to want work for Arubans, but why should a foreigner be "forced" to hire someone who has no intention of working? Apparently foreigners are not wanted in Aruba to "Make" money, only to "spend" money.
True "corruption" is everywhere, but the % of corruption in relationship to the size of that tiny island might be very questionable.

IMOO--The Natalie Holloway case (reference only) was directly a corrupt investigation due to the "political" connections of the father of JVS. I think that was blatantly obvious. In the case of RG, I do not believe there is anything to suggest there is a personal abuse of power. Just a very ineffective "Use" of power.....but then that is JMO!

This part doesn't make sense
It would be a drain on a small business to have an employee who did nothing but expected a salary
It sounds like a form of blackmail

 

[LambChop]

This part doesn't make sense
It would be a drain on a small business to have an employee who did nothing but expected a salary
It sounds like a form of blackmail

I would say most of the Arubans do do work for their employer but I have been in stores where the employee just sits by the door and does nothing all day. The owner will say they have to hire an Aruban but they don't have to work just be in the store and they are paid. It is possible because of the merchandise they handle the store owners want to handle the selling themselves and prefer the Aruban employee just stay out of the way. At least that is the way it appears to me. Not all Arubans are good salespeople. lol But the merchants seem to be okay with it and take it in stride. It is very obvious when you go into a store and someone is sitting out of the way, or by the door, and all the foreign salespeople are all over you. That person stands out like a sore thumb. If you ask them a question they will direct you to a salesperson on the floor. So is it that they don't want to work or just that the merchant would prefer they didn't. I don't know. Now if that were me, they'd have to give me a job where I actually worked. jmo

 

[LambChop]

My understanding of a foreigner owning a business was that you had to have an aruban partner
That partner could be an active participant or a silent partner

Obviously i was wrong

It's possible. I never asked about that and that information was never volunteered to me so I can't answer that question. jmo

 

[Dushi]

It's possible. I never asked about that and that information was never volunteered to me so I can't answer that question. jmo

Based on this, i think I am wrong



Company directors who are not born in Aruba nor have the dutch nationality need to apply for a director’s license at the Department of Economic Affairs.

http://www.arubachamber.com/business-in-aruba/helpful-tips-for-entrepreneurs

 

[LambChop]

I think, too, blackmail is after the fact. Merchants are fully aware of what is required of them to do business in Aruba. They can either take it or leave it. These business are there because of the tourists. The draw for these businesses to work in Aruba are the tourists who are on vacation and have money to spend. The merchants are not hurting one bit. Plus they provided excellent prices because you can buy cheaper in Aruba than you would in US. In the US merchants have to pay import and export taxes. So obviously these merchants from other countries, and there are many, feel they can do business in Aruba and make a considerable profit or they would not be there. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I think that if we are going to talk about corruption its wise to define what it is and where it comes from.It is not from the ordinary people of a country or island, weather it be in europe,Africa,Asia or America, corruption comes from people with power.We have had corrupt police officers in the UK's capital in the last year, government ministers are also corrupt worldwide, if you dig deep enough you will find it. A simple equation is;

Power and greed = corruption
Ordinary people = despair.

ITA, Saracen. We have our share of corruption in the U.S. as well actually, and even though most of the MSM does it's best to try to cover it up, most of still know about it.

It's not uncommon at the local level either. We have a particular out of state vacation place that we visit several times a year, it is like our second home. There has recently been corruption uncovered in their local LE and in the local city board as well. The locals didn't have a clue until a recent murder case was sabotaged by local LE, resulting in major evidence being lost and destroyed. The sabotage was then followed by a lot of secrecy, lies and attempts to cover it up. Very bad for that small community, but everyone is hoping this will stimulate a lot of changes being made.

The local people there are wonderful people, just as I know the Arubans are as well.

You're right, Power and Greed = Corruption. The people don't have the power, the government does. But what can be done when government runs amok, when it becomes too large and too powerful and becomes infiltrated with bad people who have their own agenda and their own interests in mind.