ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - #10

[vlpate]

I don't think anyone is claiming that she was involved in criminal activity, but the possibility cannot be excluded. There is no evidence of it however.

There are only three viable and reasonable scenarios for what could have happened:
A) Something happened that resulted in an accidental or deliberate homicide by GG, and was covered up (zero evidence of that).

There was blood on a towel and his story about how the blood got there was suspect, IMO. According to ALE, a lot of his story was inconsistent. He's a suspect in her disappearance, but without a body, they couldn't hold him in Aruba.

B) This is/was an insurance scam by GG/RG (zero evidence of that).

GG was charged with forging documents and plead guilty. Evidence that he could have forged the life insurance benefactor.

C) RG was swept out to sea and drowned, probably intoxicated (the most likely scenario).

GG said they were a perfectly sober couple when they left the restaurant the day she vanished. Where's her body? People don't just drown and disappear within an hour or two...unless
D) A shark ate her
E) Human traffickers zoomed stealthily in and scooped her up.

C is the simplest explanation and the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. This is why GG was held and why he was released. They held him because they think he is a dubious character, and they released him because that is the extent of their evidence. They don't have anything else.

They held GG in jail for three months for being a "dubious" character? That's all the evidence they had? Would you share with us what Aruban LE shared with you, as far as the evidence they have?

All this talk about human trafficking is nonsense.

Totally agree.

It is not a question about the moral character of either RG or GG, all of that is not relevant to what happened in Aruba. But, if you want to go that road, keep in mind that if you think that GG has an extensive history of dubious behaviour, then RG allmost certainly does too,

Actually, she doesn't - GG's record is extensive and includes theft, forgery, and domestic violence - filed by several women.
Robyn's record is irrelevant, but free to examine for anyone interested. Robyn's past behavior, as you stated, good or bad, has nothing to do with her accidental drowning or murder.

since people with common interests and backgrounds tend to befriend each other and flock together. She had been friends with him for quite some time. Hard core swingers do not hang out and party with the pious.

Unless swingers killed her, what does this have to do with her disappearance?

He paid for the trip and she is no doe eyed bambi.

BEM: I know this is not insinuating she owed him something, right? BTW, he paid for his trip with points and Robyn paid for her own ticket.

Do the math, you are an adult, you can figure it out.

Figure out what? What are we adding up as adults?

Remember that when you are pointing fingers, you can't have it both ways.

Amen to that.

All these scenarios where he tricked an innocent for some nefarious purpose, I simply do not buy it.

Agreed again. I think she needed to get away and it turned into a nightmare. He came back, she didn't.

If you are going to make an accusation against someone it should be based on facts, not if they are or are not a nice person according to your personal moral standards. "Nice" people do bad things all the time, and "bad" people do nice things all the time.

BEM: Right?

...and guys who beat up on women never change behavior, they just change women.

 

[Saracen]

And we are basing this on the little we know, the LITTLE we know
Obviously, regardeless of what we may think, there is simply not enough evidence to charge gary Giordano either


I get that this is your personal feeling
Doesn't mean other opinions aren't valid and should be dismissed
Many things that are discussed here are not my opinon
It doesn't matter how many times you say something, repeat it, I and many others will still be free thinkers
Appreciate your thoughts but they are not always mine
And I would rather see all opinions discussed than have this thread go to the back page

Isn't this about justice? Not about our personal opinions?

I would think that all possibilties are discussed by the Police or LE in any investigation, they have to look at every angle, just as some of the posters are doing here, and not be narrow minded otherwise they are not doing their job..Some of the ideas may be far fetched to some, and if they cannot be proved, will eventually be dismissed.But they must be looked at in a respectfull way.

 

[Saracen]

I and many others will still be free thinkers


Isn't this about justice? Not about our personal opinions?

Quote of the week, if we all thought the same, you may as well shut the thread down, no point!..IMO.

 

[LambChop]

Quote of the week, if we all thought the same, you may as well shut the thread down, no point!..IMO.

I think any information that is worth consideration should be explored. I just feel when there is nothing, absolutely no proof that RG has done anything criminal why put her in the position of criminal activity on her part being a consideration when all the evidence that they have is pointing to GG. GG is very charming when he wants to be. Described as a real salesman. It does not mean that RG was aware of what he did to other women when she was not around. Con artists suck you in by being nice, the perfect companion when they want something and certainly not by being mean and aggressive. The aggressive part of GG's relationships seem to come when the women wanted out and GG did not agree. At this point it seems he became violent
and threatening. It is possible RG never saw that side of him.

Lying is evidence of wrongdoing by the person who is giving information that is critical to LE's investigation. It is direct interference in an investigation and is viewed as a criminal action. Aruba has plenty of evidence or they would not have held him as long as they did. They would not continue to consider him a suspect in their case against him if they had no evidence at all. Just because they let him go does not mean he is considered free as he could be brought back to Aruba should they find RG's remains.

We do have differences here as to how we approach cases. I do know, however, that while LE does investigate prior activities of victims before they went missing for clues they don't spend much time on making up sceniaros about whether or not the victim was involved in their own disappearance when there is no evidence whatsoever that indicates it. Most police departments are sensitive to the families of the missing victim and don't see much merit in "what if's" when gathering evidence is of the utmost importance.

It's just my personal opinion, only. I don't blame Aruba for what happened. I don't blame Aruba for letting GG go if the belief of the judge was that there was not enough evidence to hold him any longer but enough to still keep him as a suspect. And I just do not see enough information, none, zero to show that RG would have had anything to do with her own disappearance. No insurance money was ever paid out, GG and RG both did not have a lot of money to pay anyone from Aruba for any type of elaborate scam. Plus GG has proven he is not good at lying, nor planning an event given his choice of "snorkeling" sites. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I would think that all possibilties are discussed by the Police or LE in any investigation, they have to look at every angle, just as some of the posters are doing here, and not be narrow minded otherwise they are not doing their job..Some of the ideas may be far fetched to some, and if they cannot be proved, will eventually be dismissed.But they must be looked at in a respectfull way.

I absolutely agree with what is bolded here. Being respectful is a big consideration since family members of victims also read here. And let's remember too that LE usually makes statements to the public based on facts they have gathered through their investigation and not on wild speculation. It's just something to keep in mind. A suspect is always free to deny and give a statement but a missing victim cannot confirm nor deny anything. So looking for evidence is important but there really isn't any of any kind that has surfaced that RG had anything to do with her own disappearance.

I don't think people are narrow minded because they don't agree with this path, it's just their opinion only. But I do agree 100% when it comes to the victim we should always be respectful unless evidence proves otherwise. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I think any information that is worth consideration should be explored. I just feel when there is nothing, absolutely no proof that RG has done anything criminal why put her in the position of criminal activity on her part being a consideration when all the evidence that they have is pointing to GG. GG is very charming when he wants to be. Described as a real salesman. It does not mean that RG was aware of what he did to other women when she was not around. Con artists suck you in by being nice, the perfect companion when they want something and certainly not by being mean and aggressive. The aggressive part of GG's relationships seem to come when the women wanted out and GG did not agree. At this point it seems he became violent
and threatening. It is possible RG never saw that side of him.
Lying is evidence of wrongdoing by the person who is giving information that is critical to LE's investigation. It is direct interference in an investigation and is viewed as a criminal action. Aruba has plenty of evidence or they would not have held him as long as they did. They would not continue to consider him a suspect in their case against him if they had no evidence at all. Just because they let him go does not mean he is considered free as he could be brought back to Aruba should they find RG's remains.

We do have differences here as to how we approach cases. I do know, however, that while LE does investigate prior activities of victims before they went missing for clues they don't spend much time on making up sceniaros about whether or not the victim was involved in their own disappearance when there is no evidence whatsoever that indicates it. Most police departments are sensitive to the families of the missing victim and don't see much merit in "what if's" when gathering evidence is of the utmost importance.

It's just my personal opinion, only. I don't blame Aruba for what happened. I don't blame Aruba for letting GG go if the belief of the judge was that there was not enough evidence to hold him any longer but enough to still keep him as a suspect. And I just do not see enough information, none, zero to show that RG would have had anything to do with her own disappearance. No insurance money was ever paid out, GG and RG both did not have a lot of money to pay anyone from Aruba for any type of elaborate scam. Plus GG has proven he is not good at lying, nor planning an event given his choice of "snorkeling" sites. jmo

I believe it has been stated by a friend that Robyn was fully aware of Garys past

I agree that GG and Rg didn't have money to pay out an elaborate scam
There is also no evidence of trafficking

One note, if LE had ruled this an accident, there would have been a lot of money

If you have your mind made up, its difficult to see beyond that
I wish it was all clear to me, but it just isn't, not completely

 

[Dushi]

[/B]

I absolutely agree with what is bolded here. Being respectful is a big consideration since family members of victims also read here. And let's remember too that LE usually makes statements to the public based on facts they have gathered through their investigation and not on wild speculation. It's just something to keep in mind. A suspect is always free to deny and give a statement but a missing victim cannot confirm nor deny anything. So looking for evidence is important but there really isn't any of any kind that has surfaced that RG had anything to do with her own disappearance.

I don't think people are narrow minded because they don't agree with this path, it's just their opinion only. But I do agree 100% when it comes to the victim we should always be respectful unless evidence proves otherwise. jmo

I don't see any disrespect
Its simply a matter of looking at all scenarios

Anyway, no need to continue
I understand your thoughts on this matter

 

[Saracen]

True about the US
Thing is, often charges are laid but no conviction
How often have we seen that, even with a body and a crime scene

I think there is a fundemental difference, here you are innocent until proven guilty, where as in the US your pesumed guilty until proved innocent, as with what is going on in El Paso at the moment, but cannot find the links.lol

 

[LambChop]

I don't see any disrespect
Its simply a matter of looking at all scenarios

Anyway, no need to continue
I understand your thoughts on this matter

I know everyone is looking at all possibilities and anything is possible but I am concerned with being sensitive to the victim and her family who are victims, too. People can discuss whatever they want but it is just wild speculation as there is no evidence of RG being anything but a victim. Plus I think the Aruban LE did a pretty good job of determining RG did not leave the island on her own. And this is ongoing with the FBI. The more people involved in a crime the more likelihood that someone will talk. I think GG was out for the whole enchilata and not willing to share with anyone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm just reminded that whatever we post is forever. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I know everyone is looking at all possibilities and anything is possible but I am concerned with being sensitive to the victim and her family who are victims, too. People can discuss whatever they want but it is just wild speculation as there is no evidence of RG being anything but a victim. Plus I think the Aruban LE did a pretty good job of determining RG did not leave the island on her own. And this is ongoing with the FBI. The more people involved in a crime the more likelihood that someone will talk. I think GG was out for the whole enchilata and not willing to share with anyone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm just reminded that whatever we post is forever. jmo

Yes

you have made your point a couple of times
I understand your point of view

 

[LambChop]

I think there is a fundemental difference, here you are innocent until proven guilty, where as in the US your pesumed guilty until proved innocent, as with what is going on in El Paso at the moment, but cannot find the links.lol

Public opinion is one thing. A court of law in the US is another. The burden of proof is on the State and the jury is suppose to base their verdict on whether or not there is enough evidence to prove someone is guilty or not guilty. Texan's, as a rule, have some pretty strong opinions about justice. Public opinion is just that opinion and juries are picked because a juror has stated they have no strong opinion one way or another and that if they do have an opinion they are able to set it aside and consider the evidence provided with an open mind. In the US there are checks and balances in place to ensure the defendant gets a fair trial as was evident in a couple of recent trials in Florida. jmo

 

[neesaki]

I don't think anyone is claiming that she was involved in criminal activity, but the possibility cannot be excluded. There is no evidence of it however.

There are only three viable and reasonable scenarios for what could have happened:
A) Something happened that resulted in an accidental or deliberate homicide by GG, and was covered up (zero evidence of that).
B) This is/was an insurance scam by GG/RG (zero evidence of that).
C) RG was swept out to sea and drowned, probably intoxicated (the most likely scenario).

C is the simplest explanation and the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. This is why GG was held and why he was released. They held him because they think he is a dubious character, and they released him because that is the extent of their evidence. They don't have anything else.

All this talk about human trafficking is nonsense.

It is not a question about the moral character of either RG or GG, all of that is not relevant to what happened in Aruba. But, if you want to go that road, keep in mind that if you think that GG has an extensive history of dubious behaviour, then RG allmost certainly does too, since people with common interests and backgrounds tend to befriend each other and flock together. She had been friends with him for quite some time. Hard core swingers do not hang out and party with the pious. He paid for the trip and she is no doe eyed bambi. Do the math, you are an adult, you can figure it out. Remember that when you are pointing fingers, you can't have it both ways. All these scenarios where he tricked an innocent for some nefarious purpose, I simply do not buy it.

If you are going to make an accusation against someone it should be based on facts, not if they are or are not a nice person according to your personal moral standards. "Nice" people do bad things all the time, and "bad" people do nice things all the time.

Where's the evidence of this?

 

[LambChop]

Where's the evidence of this?

There is zero physical evidence and the only witness statement of this is GG. He seems to believe this was her fate by statements he has made. Witness statements, however, disagree that they went into the water shortly after 4pm but claim they left in their rental car. jmo

 

[neesaki]

There is zero physical evidence and the only witness statement of this is GG. He seems to believe this was her fate by statements he has made. Witness statements, however, disagree that they went into the water shortly after 4pm but claim they left in their rental car. jmo

BBM. This is one point that many of us here can agree on. The lack of evidence including the statements by witnesses contradicting that they ever went snorkeling or even into the water at that location, is evidence in itself. The likelihood that Robyn drowned in that location as claimed by GG, is, imo, the least likely thing to have happened and probably didn't happen.

 

[neesaki]

Ashley Banfield reports here that it was a "responding officer" who reported that GG was staring at his wrist watch and stated in a calm voice, "she might be dead now". According to her, ABC got these witness statements from police reports. Also, I didn't realize before that these particular statements were actually made by the responding officer.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/robyn-gardner-photo-vanished-aruba/story?id=14361836

 

[LambChop]

And here we have an article posted by Dushi which shows that a man's body who is suspected of falling from one of the cliffs near the natural pool was washed up on the rocks.

http://arubaherald.com/911/2107-dutch-tourist-drowns-near-natural-pool.html

So if RG did go into the water anywhere in this area you would think her body would have been found. jmo

 

[Dushi]

And here we have an article posted by Dushi which shows that a man's body who is suspected of falling from one of the cliffs near the natural pool was washed up on the rocks.

http://arubaherald.com/911/2107-dutch-tourist-drowns-near-natural-pool.html

So if RG did go into the water anywhere in this area you would think her body would have been found. jmo

So please tell me, if she would have come back to shore by now, where do you think she is?
Because I sure as heck don't know

 

[Dushi]

Ashley Banfield reports here that it was a "responding officer" who reported that GG was staring at his wrist watch and stated in a calm voice, "she might be dead now". According to her, ABC got these witness statements from police reports. Also, I didn't realize before that these particular statements were actually made by the responding officer.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/robyn-gardner-photo-vanished-aruba/story?id=14361836

First time I have heard of the source

 

[vlpate]

I believe it has been stated by a friend that Robyn was fully aware of Garys past

I've only seen one interview with Christine Jones - did someone mention there's a search video of her in Aruba? I've not been able to find it. I didn't hear her talk about what the past was that Robyn knew about, were there details or was that a general statement by CJ?

snipped respectfully
[/QUOTE]

 

[LambChop]

So please tell me, if she would have come back to shore by now, where do you think she is?
Because I sure as heck don't know

Well I certainly don't know either and if I did there would be no mystery to solve. LOL

GG claims and felt confident enough to state that she died in the water. LE does not feel she was in the water near Baby Beach so that leaves the cliffs and we know how easy it is to fall off the cliffs. If LE does not know where she went in it's hard to tell where she might have come back to shore, if she did at all. I do know there are a lot of sharks in that water and some parts off the cliffs are deep and rocky.

At least in the latest drowning the family could give rescue workers an idea of where he might have fallen into the water. Even strong swimmers would have a problem in that water.

It's possible that GG's intention all along was that RG would not be found at Baby Beach. If he researched and found certain currents along the eastern coast cliff area had a strong rip tide he may have felt there was a good chance no one would find her because he had them searching in another area for days. I mean, why the two days to visit this particular jetty? Why make yourself known and be seen on camera at this location two days in a row at the same time of the day. Did GG want to establish that this was their main interest and choice as a snorkeling site to throw a search off into an area where he knew no body would ever be found? There are a lot of questions.

One thing is clear, the waters around the natural pool are very rough and this man's body was found. The waters at Baby Beach that evening were very calm and her body was never found. The other drowning in October at Baby Beach was recovered right away. Most drowning victims are recovered. So where is RG and did LE lose precious time looking for her in the wrong area? jmo