ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 4

[Dushi]

Two completely different signatures. This is pretty bush league.

Then it should not be hard to prove
The insurance policies were signed in the US, purchased there.
Can I assume that this would fall into the jurisdiction of the FBI?

 

[concentric]

Do you mean plotted it out online with RG being involved in the scam?

You know, that is a very interesting question. There could be multiple layers. For example, she could have been scammed into scamming.

 

[annalia]

You know, that is a very interesting question. There could be multiple layers. For example, she could have been scammed into scamming.

I wonder if he just got her to sign a bunch of forms, making her believe it was all just routine paperwork, standard procedure for the trip, with her not bothering to even read it all through. She probably wouldn't be thinking at that time maybe he's trying to kill me. Then he either fills out the forms afterwards or forges her signature elsewhere.

JMHO

 

[Dushi]

I wonder if he just got her to sign a bunch of forms, making her believe it was all just routine paperwork, standard procedure for the trip, with her not bothering to even read it all through. She probably wouldn't be thinking at that time maybe he's trying to kill me. Then he either fills out the forms afterwards or forges her signature elsewhere.

JMHO

If she signed them thinking it was just routine, why would he have to forge her signature?

 

[annalia]

If she signed them thinking it was just routine, why would he have to forge her signature?

The forging would come later on the change of beneficiary form, that not being included in the forms she originally signed.

If he made her believe that the original insurance forms were just standard, throwing in other forms as well, she trusted him at that point, but he wouldn't have wanted to include a change of beneficiary then too in the off chance she did look through them.

JMHO

 

[neesaki]

I don't know if they did, or how
As I stated above, I am still leaning towards murder

And I don't believe human trafficing

But I think all things need to be considered
As HS said earlier, we know very little about this case

I lean a little more toward murder now than I did in the beginning, however am not totally convinced. I noticed on the save Robyn Facebook page that someone asked why Richard had removed a post that had a link to an article about Human Trafficking. Also, the Aruban officials have stated repeatedly they believe she is dead , with no reported apparent consideration given to the other possibility. Just wonder if they do suspect trafficking but don't want this to get out in the media, which if were the case, would be understandable if they want to increase the chances of getting Robyn back alive. Well, just another theory.

 

[neesaki]

A heated argument ensued, he got violent, choked her and had his way with her. Now he had a problem - the body shows a cause of death that isn't drowning.

I can go along with this theory, just can't figure out how he would have disposed of her body and how he seems so certain they won't find her. If she's in a mine or cave, she can eventually be found. So then it goes back to the ocean and sharks. But that is so iffy as parts would most likely wash into shore. Then, again, if he was that drunk he probably wasn't thinking that rationally and may have even been in a panicky state.

Which takes us back to why, once he sobered up, he seems so sure she won't be found. I guess that's why I think human trafficking is a possibility. That, and the fact that Joran Van Der Sloot was involved w/ it at some point, and many think Natalee Holloway was a victim of it, and Amy Bradley as well. She had been to Aruba right before she disappeared. She had called some of the crew members on the ship "creepy" after they asked her to go to Carlos and Charlie's w/ them. Then she disappeared that night. Just another theory.

 

[Dushi]

I can go along with this theory, just can't figure out how he would have disposed of her body and how he seems so certain they won't find her. If she's in a mine or cave, she can eventually be found. So then it goes back to the ocean and sharks. But that is so iffy as parts would most likely wash into shore. Then, again, if he was that drunk he probably wasn't thinking that rationally and may have even been in a panicky state.

Which takes us back to why, once he sobered up, he seems so sure she won't be found. I guess that's why I think human trafficking is a possibility. That, and the fact that Joran Van Der Sloot was involved w/ it at some point, and many think Natalee Holloway was a victim of it, and Amy Bradley as well. She had been to Aruba right before she disappeared. She had called some of the crew members on the ship "creepy" after they asked her to go to Carlos and Charlie's w/ them. Then she disappeared that night. Just another theory.

I believe the only involvment Joran VS had on Aruba with human trafficing is when he told that he sold NH for ten thousand dollars to a man on the beach that night
I believe it was proven that it was another of his many lies

I am sure Human trafficing can happen anywhere but again, someone else had to be in the know
GG would have had to have a contact
A boat, a way off of the Island, in the middle of the afternoon

Did Amy Bradley disappear while the ship was at sea?
I don't know much about that disppearance

 

[neesaki]

I believe the only involvment Joran VS had on Aruba with human trafficing is when he told that he sold NH for ten thousand dollars to a man on the beach that night
I believe it was proven that it was another of his many lies

Actually, from what I remember he was caught in the act of trying to make a deal w/ someone in Bangkok. Here's a link w/ a little about it.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2008/11/joran_van_der_sloot_accused_of.php

I am sure Human trafficing can happen anywhere but again, someone else had to be in the know
GG would have had to have a contact
A boat, a way off of the Island, in the middle of the afternoon

True, but a reporter or witness (maybe both) back on the Natalee Holloway case stated that she had been moved from place to place on the island for several days before she was taken away. They reportedly could never catch up w/ them. Dr. Phil has had two investigators trying to find Natalee down in Mexico and other areas. It is reported that Van der Sloot changed his story to that she was murdered because he was afraid for his and his family's life, (probably just his, lol).

Here are a couple of links on her case:

http://www.worldwidetracers.com/natalee.html

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2008/11/a_merging_of_th.php

Did Amy Bradley disappear while the ship was at sea?
I don't know much about that disppearance

Yes, right after it left Aruba. That was back in '98 or '99 I think. There have been several reported sightings of her over the years. Here are a couple of links w/ information on her disappearance.

http://amybradley.net/

http://chrisfenwick.com/home/2010/3/1/amy-bradley-is-missing.html?currentPage=2#comments

 

[Dushi]

I said JVS had no known involvement in Aruba other than his story

I am very familaiar with the disappearance

I don't believe there was a lot to base the Dr Phil story on, he chose to do it, there was never any evidence that NH was in Mexico
I do remember BH being on his show
He also made mention of a phone call that Beth received and mentioned that Beth would recognize her daughters voice, alluded that it was NH

Its very unfortunate that its hard to know what is true and what is rumor in that case too

 

[Dushi]

Robyn went to Aruba with GG

There is presumably a large insurance policy
GG has a nasty reputation and he is the beneficiary

He certainly could have "sold" her and benefited two ways
BUT that involves other people

I think its more likely he murdered her and disposed of her body in the ocean

As was previously stated, his story covers him if she should be found on shore
He has covered the blood situation, whether there was any or not, I am no longer sure

If he did hide her on land, he runs a huge risk of his whole story unravelling should she be found

He mentioned sleeping pills and vodka

I feel he is telling enough truth just to cover himself should something be found

 

[Dushi]

If it is proven that he forged her signature, thats icing on the cake, imo

 

[Niner]

I don't understand anything about tides etc
How far out would a body have to be taken not to return?
How would he know that?
Where would he do it and not risk getting caught?
There seems to be a very short time period that is not accounted for
He seems certain she will not be found.

Things certainly don't add up here but its hard to figure out what I think given the fact that i have no idea what is true and what isn't anymore.

to answer the bold - I read 'somewhere' that you have to go out at least a mile for 'no return'.

 

[Niner]

I don't think that GVG and Robyn were in a conspiracy together to scam 3 million in insurance. I don't think that Robyn, who is 35 years old, was kidnapped and sold to someone in some foreign country. I think this is probably a straight forward case where GVG thought that it was easy to get away with murder in Aruba because he watched too much Nancy Grace, so he purchased 1.5 mil in insurance on Robyn and took her to Aruba. I think he gave her lots to drink from the time before they got on the plane and continuously until she was reported missing. I think he deliberately kept her a little drunk that so that he could more easily take advantage of her. I think that he wanted to push her into the riptides off the SE tip of Aruba or somehow have her drown. Whether he succeeded, who knows. If he didn't succeed in the riptides, then I suspect he drove to the SW tip, the area that was searched, and pushed her into any one of the many mines on that part of the Island. Hopefully she is on land so she can be found. If she's in the water, she could be half way to Venezuela by now ... somewhere on the bottom of the ocean. Since the water was reportedly glass like on the day that she was reported missing, she's more likely in a mine.

Alternatively, the pair went swimming in the wrong place, she drowned, he went for help, he disappeared and the generous travel insurance policy that he purchased for her is his downfall.

re bold - yes, there has been a lot of reporting about them drinking - buying liquor, etc. So that could be real possibility, plus the sleeping pills...

I'm going re post the Timeline, as I added the "elevator" incident in it, as it had a time and date. The elevator incident happened at 6:51AM, so WHY did she go with him to the restaurant at 3PM - ?? and not just leave like she said she would?

 

[otto]

Or, maybe meeting up w/ his human trafficking contact in the desert or in one of those deserted shacks.

Why would anyone "human traffic" a 35 year old woman?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I don't think he took her dead body out to sea. I put myself in his position, and feel it is too risky being seen. Plus I would be concerned the body would float back to shore and show evidence of murder. If the witness reports are inaccurate, that would change things. I suspect they see his vehicle on video leaving the area. My feeling is that he drove to a remote area that would allow for both the murder and the disposal of the body. If anybody is familiar with south Aruba I would be curious what their thoughts are as to secluded areas, where screams would not be heard, where a body could be hidden. The desert appears to have dirt road he could travel on.

 

[Niner]

TimeLine (approx)

July 2011 - Robyn sends GG a text "Get me out of here." Per a report. there is a fight just prior to leaving for Aruba between GG and RF.

July 27th - Robyn signs "travel insurance" papers.

Sunday, July 31st - Flight time from Maryland to Orlando is about 1 1/2 hours. Given the time they would have needed to be at the airport for security, my guess-timate is that they were at the airport no later than 6am.
9am – Orlando Airport: ABC News has seen receipts that revealed that the couple ordered four Bloody Marys at 9 a.m. at the Orlando Airport on their way to the island,
?? Arrive at hotel - and that the two bought a liter of Ciroq vodka after they checked into their room at the Marriott Hotel in Aruba.
Sunday, July 31, late afternoon - I met Robyn and Gary on the beach in front of the Marriott Stellaris Hotel. They had arrived on that day. My husband and I sat and spoke with them for awhile. They asked my husband and I about activities on the island.... Was shocked to see that this had happened, since we just spoke with them last Sunday, late afternoon. I am sure it was Robyn because I commented on her tattoo, indicating that I liked it. Didn't think they went together as a couple, as he was much older. She was also sitting kind of far away from him on the beach chair. She was nice. We were actually discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I will pray for her return.

Monday, August 1st - GG and RG bought bottle of vodka this day, per reports. Nothing else reported as of 9-2-11 of their time spent for day.

Monday, August 1st – 5:02pm – Facebook comment: “the 16. I can communicate here.”

Tuesday. August 2nd – 2:05am - Facebook comment left on RF's wall by Robyn: "This sucks."

Tuesday, August 2nd – 6:51am - Prime murder suspect Gary Giordano, who friends said she met on a swingers sex site, is thought to have threatened to kill her while grabbing her by the neck and shoving her into an elevator on August 2 - the last day Miss Gardner, 35, was seen alive. The videotape from the Marriott Resort in Aruba allegedly shows the two having a furious and violent fight on the day she went missing. A source close to the investigation told the National Enquirer: 'They were having a major fight. Robyn was waving her arms and shouting at Giordano. He was grabbing her arms and jerking her around and shouting back at her. 'Then Giordano apparently realized their argument was heating up in public where someone might overhear them. He violently grabbed the back of Robyn's neck with one hand and shoved her back into the elevator with the other hand.' After reviewing the video multiple times, experts believe Robyn shouted: 'I'm out of here. I'm leaving F you!. I'm not spending another minute with you!' while he shouted back: 'Get back here! I'll kill you, b*****!'

Tuesday, August 2nd – 7:57am - Facebook: RF to Robyn: “?? InBox me”

3:06pm - Arrived at restaurant – Seen on camera entering restaurant.

3:10pm - Robyn sends RF a Facebook message 'Don't worry. I care about you I love you we'll talk and sort things out when I got back,' Reportedly went to bathroom after entering restaurant.

4:13pm - Robyn is last seen (leaving restaurant). A man who works near Baby Beach reported seeing their vehicle park up by the rocks close to the water, wondered why they chose there to go snorkeling. A fisherman comes forward and says that GG and RG never went into the water. Gardner was last seen alive Aug. 2 at the Rum Reef Bar & Grill in the Baby Beach area of Aruba with Gary Giordano - approximately 4pm. Giordano, 50, and Gardner, 35, had traveled to Aruba together. He is being held in an Arubian jail but could be released today. Giordano claims that Gardner got swept out to sea when the two went snorkeling

approx. 4:22pm - Approximately 10 minutes after leaving restaurant a fisherman reportedly saw Giordano and Gardner leaving a beach together, and said they did not get into the water. Saw them driving the wrong direction.

6:02pm - Giordano reportedly is seen in surveillance video, tapping on closed shutters of the bar – per “sources” even though it has been mentioned that there are NO cameras in the back of restaurant.

6:20pm - GG reportedly headed to the back kitchen of the bar and told someone to call police. Three witnesses, two women and a man, told police that Giordano approached them on Aug. 2, saying, "Can you help me? We were snorkeling and my girlfriend is missing," she told police. One woman told police that while Giordano's sneakers were wet, his shorts were not. When Giordano reported Gardner missing, he seemed extremely drunk, a local fisherman, Sergio Silva, told ABC News, although Giordano told police that the two never purchased alcohol at the restaurant.

6.23pm - 911 received notification of a possible drowning of a woman. The traveling companion of this woman, a man G.V.G. stated that they were going snorkeling behind Nanki Country Club.

At 6:23 p.m. on the day of her disappearance, police were called, and 20 minutes later began to search the area. Then, Giordano left the search to return to his hotel and take a nap, according to police. Disclaimer: This claim, at 6.40 GG went for a nap, not true, there are various pics of GG helping the police in the dark, pics where it is completely dark, it takes till 7:30 for it to get dark, so GG was not taking a nap at 6:40, he still was working with the police at least at 7:30.

Wednesday, August 4th - Robin’s mother arrives.

Wednesday, August 4th – original date to fly back

Friday, August 5th - Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport where he told U.S. Customs he had to change flights because of weather, and told officials that his travel companion was "taking another flight." He was trying to board a flight one hour earlier than his scheduled departure. When arrested, authorities say Giordano was drenched in sweat. Mug shot after being arrested trying to get on a plane off the island.

Wednesday, August 31st – GG detained in jail for another 60 days (until Oct. 30).

 

[Niner]

I don't think he took her dead body out to sea. I put myself in his position, and feel it is too risky being seen. Plus I would be concerned the body would float back to shore and show evidence of murder. If the witness reports are inaccurate, that would change things. I suspect they see his vehicle on video leaving the area. My feeling is that he drove to a remote area that would allow for both the murder and the disposal of the body. If anybody is familiar with south Aruba I would be curious what their thoughts are as to secluded areas, where screams would not be heard, where a body could be hidden. The desert appears to have dirt road he could travel on.

wondering if his car was dirty - re driving on dirt roads... ??

 

[Niner]

thinking here - re-reading the timeline. Don't 'see' anything reported on 'what' they did on Monday, August 1st. I believe that is the day the photos were taken, as she said later "this sucks" (2am), and then coming out of the elevator the next morning (6:51am) saying she wants to leave... Maybe he calmed her down, said okay I'll take you to the airport, but let's get something to eat and then we'll go to the airport. Question - was HER luggage found at the hotel? or ??

Just thinking out loud here!!

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Those two signatures look very different.

JMHO

The signature from May is the one that looks like a forgery (stop and start pen points). The one recently signed in July looks like an original (very smooth/no stop and start)..at least to me. If that is the case whats-up with the May sig--is that the one he "supposedly" forged?

So if we take out the July 27th forgery, since to me it looks like that IS RG's signature--what do we have??

Human trafficking is not so "out there". There was a movie called "Taken" with Liam Neeson---VERY SCARY---
Daughter is taken after landing in Paris
They find it is an Armenian run organization
Within 96 hours --any victim will NEVER be found
They are kept drugged and moved from one holding house to another until they reach the final destination , a high priced AUCTION, Hundreds of thousands of dollars are paid for some of these young women.These are the "lucky". ones.

My point being, even if Robyn was 35 years old, she still would be of value for other uses:sick:. In Juarez Mexico there have been at least 500 missing women, some may come from the U.S.
Nobody does anything to find them because EVERYONE is corrupt. New Mexico just recently found the skeletal remains of 11 women, that article was referenced right here on WS.

Sadly this happens everyday here in the U.S. , Mexico, Thailand, and South America (the largest)--Aruba is very convenient by boat. It may sound strange, but sometimes I think with so many of our young women disappearing without a trace---Human Trafficking is a nightmare no one wants to think about. IMOO--I think if GG did anything with Robyn it was drugging her enough to be moved by boat to-----who knows?....but GG is sure they will find no body!:twocents: