ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[Nova]

Particularly if they tell the child your family is all dead. A child would then go into survival mode and do whatever they had to to stay alive thinking they could end up dead as well. And then they adapt. Not so with a grown woman who has been out and about in the world. jmo

Absolutely, in the case of children. We know for a fact that young children have been kidnapped and "controlled" by being told their real families are dead or don't want them.

But I specified that I was talking about an "educated, American woman". Obviously I was thinking of NH or RG. I can see them being abducted for a short time, but as "merchandise" in international human trafficking, I find them unlikely candidates. Too risky.

 

[MaryAnn]

He needs to answer why he had heavy shoes on and was able to swim back and she was barefooted and unable to swim back?????

We all know one thing for sure. GG is definitely not a gentleman. What Man doesn't even look back to see where their companion is if they are supposedly drowning. This kind of reminds me of that horrible tragic story of the Husband who killed his wife on their honeymoon. They went Scuba Diving in another country. Forget where, but he unplugs her air tube, she drops to the bottom of the ocean and drowns. I think the US has him in custody, but he was released wherever it happened. Sorry I don't have all the details. GG is a huge liar and caused RG's dissappearance. It's so obvious, no one acts that way if they really care for someone.

 

[LolliPop]

So by 'representing to the hilt' do you mean accusing an innocent person of rape and incest?

Isn't GG being accused of murder by members here and on other forums and the general public ?

The same principle applies, GG is not guilty until proven guilty as was the case with Casey Anthony.

 

[katydid23]

Isn't GG being accused of murder by members here and on other forums and the general public ?

The same principle applies, GG is not guilty until proven guilty as was the case with Casey Anthony.

GG was in custody because he was and is the prime suspect in a missing person investigation.

George Anthony was the victim of a crime. Not the suspect and not the one on trial. Baez LIED and made up a sick story out of whole cloth. That does not make him a hero or a master in my eyes. Not even close.

 

[LolliPop]

GG was in custody because he was and is the prime suspect in a missing person investigation.

George Anthony was the victim of a crime. Not the suspect and not the one on trial. Baez LIED and made up a sick story out of whole cloth. That does not make him a hero or a master in my eyes. Not even close.

Point taken !

But seeing you wish to engage me, allow me to humor you.

With your priciple in mind of using terms such as "suspect and victim", I take it that now that Casey Anthony was found not guilty by a court of law that you are as prepared to accept that she is not guilty of the main crime that she was accused of ?

And where does this leave the people who accused her and the prosecutors that attemted to prosecute her on those charges ?

 

[Nova]

I'm sure that RF was suggesting that GG was behind the human trafficking story, but with GG suggesting it, we know that he's making ridiculous claims. Unless he saw a boat pull up where they were snorkeling and drag Robyn away, it didn't happen. With GG making these claims while Baez is sitting next to him, I have to wonder if Baez hasn't suggested that: the crazier the claim, the better for the defense.

otto, this is what I was trying to get at yesterday and I probably just put it badly. Although not impossible, I think it's unlikely that Baez would say to any client, "Just tell this lie" or "Tell as many lies as possible." That sort of violation of attorney ethics could come back to bite him.

But something like you describe above is another matter. Baez says to GG, "You say you didn't look back once you headed for shore, so you really don't know that a boat didn't come along and pick her up, do you? Aruba has a lot of human trafficking, you know." GG gets the hint and a new story is born. As long as GG presents the human-trafficking tale as hypothetical, neither GG or Baez are at risk.

 

[katydid23]

Point taken !

But seeing you wish to engage me, allow me to humor you.

With your priciple in mind of using terms such as "suspect and victim", I take it that now that Casey Anthony was found not guilty by a court of law that you are as prepared to accept that she is not guilty of the main crime that she was accused of ?

And where does this leave the people who accused her and the prosecutors that attemted to prosecute her on those charges ?

Not Guilty is not the same thing as INNOCENT. I saw the evidence presented in that case. I watched every single day of that trial. So I am going by what I personally saw as the evidence in that case.

Also, I am not sure what you mean that I am 'engaging you.' This is a discussion forum. We are all supposed to freely discuss the cases at hand. So I do not need to 'enagae you' and you do not need to 'humor me.'

 

[Nova]

I am a rape victim, my sister was a rape victim (roofies), that is, before she was killed.

So, I have first-hand knowledge of some pretty "out there" scenarios that are reality.

I am so sorry, words fail me...

 

[LolliPop]

Not Guilty is not the same thing as INNOCENT. I saw the evidence presented in that case. I watched every single day of that trial. So I am going by what I personally saw as the evidence in that case.

Also, I am not sure what you mean that I am 'engaging you.' This is a discussion forum. We are all supposed to freely discuss the cases at hand. So I do not need to 'enagae you' and you do not need to 'humor me.'

You appear to have added to your original post, just as well this is not a legal document or else you would have committed some misdemeanour.

But allow me to discuss your point that was added.

Since my first post here where I was discussing my opinion, I have been interrogated to which I have responded in kind.

 

[katydid23]

You appear to have added to your original post, just as well this is not a legal document or else you would have committed some misdemeanour.

But allow me to discuss your point that was added.

Since my first post here where I was discussing my opinion, I have been interrogated to which I have responded in kind.

If it were illegal to add to one's post then there would not be an EDIT option, imo.

I noticed that you tend to use legal terms throughout your posts. Like interrogated and legal document. Are you an attorney?

 

[LolliPop]

GG may be guilty of nothing more than making a bad choice swimming ashore not unlike Ted Kennedy.

 

[otto]

Isn't GG being accused of murder by members here and on other forums and the general public ?

The same principle applies, GG is not guilty until proven guilty as was the case with Casey Anthony.

GG is considered entirely innocent by law right now, but the Aruban authorities have said that he is a liar and that they will continue to try to resolve the case. Their only suspect is GG. I have seen the pro-convicted person phrase used on this forum before. It's quite shocking, but it happens. Sometimes the convicted person has so much support the victim is truly lost in the discussion.

 

[JeannaT]

Absolutely, in the case of children. We know for a fact that young children have been kidnapped and "controlled" by being told their real families are dead or don't want them.

But I specified that I was talking about an "educated, American woman". Obviously I was thinking of NH or RG. I can see them being abducted for a short time, but as "merchandise" in international human trafficking, I find them unlikely candidates. Too risky.

BTW, and OT, that is a VERY common tactic for military prisoners of war, too. So even trained grown adult men can fall prey to the lie that "your wife has remarried since you've been gone", "your country isn't even trying to get you back", "your family has died".

 

[Niner]

Exactly what I've been asking all along - where were their phones?? Why didn't any of the talking heads ask GG this? Were they in the car?

re bold - because they NEVER do... :floorlaugh:
SO many times/cases where the THs never ask the obvious questions, or obvious to all of us here! Why is that? :waitasec:

:seeya:

 

[LolliPop]

GG is considered entirely innocent by law right now, but the Aruban authorities have said that he is a liar and that they will continue to try to resolve the case. Their only suspect is GG. I have seen the pro-convicted person phrase used on this forum before. It's quite shocking, but it happens. Sometimes the convicted person has so much support the victim is truly lost in the discussion.

Absolutely.

And Otto, you appear to be a man of wisdom and integrity with a good laymans knowledge of the law.

 

[JeannaT]

GG is considered entirely innocent by law right now, but the Aruban authorities have said that he is a liar and that they will continue to try to resolve the case. Their only suspect is GG. I have seen the pro-convicted person phrase used on this forum before. It's quite shocking, but it happens. Sometimes the convicted person has so much support the victim is truly lost in the discussion.

I might be guilty of being thought of as a "proconvicted person". I have great respect for the "Innocence Project" and believe a LOT of convicted felons are completely innocent. Not just innocent by some technicality, but all the way innocent, had nothing whatsoever to do with the crime committed, and in fact ANY crime committed. I'm not so into people who have a huge list of priors, but people who have lived a good clean life and then are suddenly on death row for a crime they didn't commit, and for which there is very little evidence they did commit it. Everyone picks their battles, and that's kind of my "battle".

 

[JeannaT]

re bold - because they NEVER do... :floorlaugh:
SO many times/cases where the THs never ask the obvious questions, or obvious to all of us here! Why is that? :waitasec:

:seeya:

*shakes head*

Truer words were never spoken. SO many times talking heads or reporters fail to ask the crux questions, or they ask a question and fail to ask a very obvious follow up question that would clear the situation up. Makes me nuts.

Sometimes watching the media is like watching a soap opera, you just sit there and think OH SAY IT JUST SAY IT JUST SAY IT. And then the scene ends, with the characters still in the dark about the situation.

 

[JeannaT]

I notice that you fall short of declaring her not guilty as the law would require you to do.

A jury, duly appointed by a judge, found her not guilty of the main charges against her.

In the eyes of the law, she is not guilty and the constituttion requires that she be afforded that right and liberty.

Do you deny her that ?

Lollipop, I've watched this discussion and I really think there is a distinction here between "not guilty" and "innocent". In common practice we don't see a difference, but the court of law does. "Not guilty" in court doesn't mean innocent. It means there isn't enough here to find the person guilty. Sometimes, the jury believes strongly the defendant is INNOCENT, sometimes, they're in that awful limbo where they just don't have enough to go on. It's like a grand jury finding of true bill or not. They're not saying a suspect is innocent with no true bill, there's just not enough here to know.

There's a really good reason why US courts don't require juries to find defendants "guilty" or "innocent". It's because that's not what they're doing.

 

[LolliPop]

Lollipop, I've watched this discussion and I really think there is a distinction here between "not guilty" and "innocent". In common practice we don't see a difference, but the court of law does. "Not guilty" in court doesn't mean innocent. It means there isn't enough here to find the person guilty. Sometimes, the jury believes strongly the defendant is INNOCENT, sometimes, they're in that awful limbo where they just don't have enough to go on. It's like a grand jury finding of true bill or not. They're not saying a suspect is innocent with no true bill, there's just not enough here to know.

Thank you for taking the time to explain but I am more than fully aware of the subject matter and the numerous addendums that accompany and distort a clean cut conclusion.

 

[LambChop]

Point taken !

But seeing you wish to engage me, allow me to humor you.

With your priciple in mind of using terms such as "suspect and victim", I take it that now that Casey Anthony was found not guilty by a court of law that you are as prepared to accept that she is not guilty of the main crime that she was accused of ?

And where does this leave the people who accused her and the prosecutors that attemted to prosecute her on those charges ?

KC was found not guilty in a court of law which means she will not be serving a jail sentence. That does not affect how people feel, what they think and what their opinions are. This is still a free country and we can discuss whatever our opinions are freely here.

But this is a topic for KC's thread not here and we are constantly being derailed. KC is history and we need to focus on RG right now and what happened to her. So us staying on topic helps.

RG is a victim and according to the Aruban authorities GG is still the only suspect they have at the present time. He was not charged, he was not tried so he is still a suspect. jmo