ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 7

[LambChop]

Not unlike Ted Kennedy. This is really interesting, because although I'm inclined to give GG the benefit of the doubt, and have some thoughts that he is innocent in Robyn's disappearance, I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone who thinks Ted Kennedy is innocent in Chappaquitic. Or however you spell that.

And Ted did pay dearly for that, didn't he. I think I remember them saying he paid the family off rather than have a civil trial. It was a long time ago. But then his family could afford to do so. jmo

 

[Dushi]

It is my considered opinion that Jose Baez is a professional and he has duly rehearsed with GR exactly the content that was broadcasted over the air.
Mr Baez will have laid down certain rules that his client will have to adhere to.

There will be more interviews when deemed necessary.

JMO, of course.

I agree
It is my opinion that when a defense attorney takes on a case he is very aware of what has been stated publicly
His job , whether we like it or not is to defend those public statements

 

[Dushi]

And Ted did pay dearly for that, didn't he. I think I remember them saying he paid the family off rather than have a civil trial. It was a long time ago. But then his family could afford to do so. jmo

Well i guess the family did pay off
a different time, different media
does that make him more innocent?

and yes I am off topic
so.......... delete it if you wish

My point, or rather Lolipops point is
Crap happens and even if we don't get it............sometimes it is the way it is

 

[Micheline]

GG just says what he wants on a whim, without much thought of how is sounds.

-respectfuly snipped by me-

I noticed he answered even more when provoked into it, when Geraldo asked for the third time or so how he did not notice Robyn was having problems he sort of opens op, tells he wears contacts, had gotten water in his mouth etc.

Him saying that makes him credible imo, for the simple reason that he could have said he got water in his eyes (which would be a problem wearing lenses), that could have caused him having issues looking at his travel partner while in the sea, but he did not say that, while it would have been so easy to just claim that and make his version of events more understandable.

 

[Dushi]

-respectfuly snipped by me-

I noticed he answered even more when provoked into it, when Geraldo asked for the third time or so how he did not notice Robyn was having problems he sort of opens op, tells he wears contacts, had gotten water in his mouth etc.

Him saying that makes him credible imo, for the simple reason that he could have said he got water in his eyes (which would be a problem wearing lenses), that could have caused him having issues looking at his travel partner while in the sea, but he did not say that, while it would have been so easy to just claim that and make his version of events more understandable.

Don't believe they were ever in the water

 

[Nova]

An opinion is an entitlement, to deny a person their judicial rights without restriction becomes debatable.
Legally Unsubstantiated Burden of proof translates into Not Guilty.

What does "entitlement" mean in your context?

What is a "judicial right"? The right to counsel? To a jury of one's peers? Why are such things relevant here?

Yes, a failure to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt should result in a "not guilty" verdict. Such a verdict doesn't tell us anything as to actual guilt or innocence. That's what I said in MY post (as others did as well).

My point of disagreement was with your telling another poster that she had a legal obligation to declare CA "not guilty." I know of no such obligation, especially considering that when a lay person uses the terms "guilty" and "not guilty" she usually means factual guilt and isn't referring to whether a burden of proof has been met.

 

[Nova]

Don't believe they were ever in the water

I'm beginning to wonder about that, myself.

 

[LambChop]

Don't believe they were ever in the water

Can you even wear contacts in the water? I'd be afraid they would come out if water got into my eyes and what about any sand kicked up from the bottom. I don't wear them myself so I don't know. Same with his toupe all that salt water and sand getting under that wig and onto his scalp. I know I have sand in my suit sometimes when I get out of the water and not from sitting that is for sure.

Surely if there were some turbulence it would have kicked up a lot of sand. jmo

 

[JeannaT]

-respectfuly snipped by me-

I noticed he answered even more when provoked into it, when Geraldo asked for the third time or so how he did not notice Robyn was having problems he sort of opens op, tells he wears contacts, had gotten water in his mouth etc.

Him saying that makes him credible imo, for the simple reason that he could have said he got water in his eyes (which would be a problem wearing lenses), that could have caused him having issues looking at his travel partner while in the sea, but he did not say that, while it would have been so easy to just claim that and make his version of events more understandable.

Had he tried to save her in rough waters, if she were having trouble, they would both have drowned.

 

[Dushi]

Thinking we have an amazing group here
love all of the opinions
interesting, differing opinions

sorry for being OT

 

[Nova]

-respectfuly snipped by me-

I noticed he answered even more when provoked into it, when Geraldo asked for the third time or so how he did not notice Robyn was having problems he sort of opens op, tells he wears contacts, had gotten water in his mouth etc.

Him saying that makes him credible imo, for the simple reason that he could have said he got water in his eyes (which would be a problem wearing lenses), that could have caused him having issues looking at his travel partner while in the sea, but he did not say that, while it would have been so easy to just claim that and make his version of events more understandable.

Micheline, I'm sorry, but I can't parse your two paragraphs. Each seems to contradict the other.

For example, the phrase bolded by me: isn't that what you say GG DID say?

Are you saying you find GG credible because sometimes he doesn't provide information until he's been asked several times? I'm wondering, because from Darlie Routier to Casey Anthony, nothing makes a suspect look guiltier to me than a willingness to recreate one's story every time one is confronted with an additional fact.

 

[Dushi]

Can you even wear contacts in the water? I'd be afraid they would come out if water got into my eyes and what about any sand kicked up from the bottom. I don't wear them myself so I don't know. Same with his toupe all that salt water and sand getting under that wig and onto his scalp. I know I have sand in my suit sometimes when I get out of the water and not from sitting that is for sure.

Surely if there were some turbulence it would have kicked up a lot of sand. jmo

LOL . Lambchop, we have had many of the same experiences

 

[Nova]

Can you even wear contacts in the water? I'd be afraid they would come out if water got into my eyes and what about any sand kicked up from the bottom. I don't wear them myself so I don't know. Same with his toupe all that salt water and sand getting under that wig and onto his scalp. I know I have sand in my suit sometimes when I get out of the water and not from sitting that is for sure.

Surely if there were some turbulence it would have kicked up a lot of sand. jmo

I don't about the rug, but I think a swimmer using a mask might well use contact lenses as well.

 

[LambChop]

Had he tried to save her in rough waters, if she were having trouble, they would both have drowned.

We'll never know. I just know my husband would never have left me and somehow we would have made it back to shore. For someone who had a instantaneous brush with death he looks remarkably refreshed in that video. He bangs on the doors as if he's looking to see if someone would get him a beer. It's just so odd to watch. Along with the police pictures of him sitting on the beach. Just an observation. jmo

 

[LambChop]

LOL . Lambchop, we have had many of the same experiences

Yea, I know. Here's hoping you can keep the sand out of our suit, Dushi. I hate it when it does that. lol

 

[Micheline]

Don't believe they were ever in the water

I believe they were, how else did her dress end up on that beach without any traces of violence on it?

Imagine he took her some place to murder her, he would then have to force her out of her dress first and then murder her, in order to be to be able to place it on the beach later in immaculate state without any traces of a fight or a murder.

What about his own clothes, his shirt, short, socks and sneakers, no traces of anything? He did not know if the police would find the story supicious and wanting to check out his clothes aswell as her dress and the car, he would have to calculate that could happen, so he then also took of his own clothes and cleaned out the car?

One more thing regarding the dress, if he went away with Robyn, he would have to come back to the same area, would he not be on camera walking just by himself carrying Robyn's dress (prior to put it on the beach) and her not being present?

 

[Dushi]

Yea, I know. Here's hoping you can keep the sand out of our suit, Dushi. I hate it when it does that. lol

LOL, nice to talk with someone who knows the Island

 

[Nova]

Had he tried to save her in rough waters, if she were having trouble, they would both have drowned.

That's true. It isn't always possible for someone not trained as a lifeguard to rescue a panicking person. (BTW, the last I heard the best plan is to grab the person by the hair and pull them so they can't get hold of you and pull you under.)

But even if a rescue isn't possible, that doesn't mean you have to turn your back on that person and swim to shore with nary a look back.

As I said above, my husband and I were trapped in a rip current off Malibu. Since I'm the native Floridian, I was much calmer and offered to pull him behind me as I swam out of the current and into shore. He was quite panicked and yelled at me not to touch him.

So I swam a few feet away, all the way back to the beach. I did not turn my back and forge ahead without keeping track of his welfare.

Yes, everyone is different and GG is under no obligation to react the same as I. But come on...

And pardon my latent sexism, but even today men are socialized to be somewhat protective of females. (Didn't GG even have the gall to describe himself as RG's "protector" on TV last night?) What sorry excuse for a man swims off and doesn't even keep track of his female companion in the water?

 

[Micheline]

Micheline, I'm sorry, but I can't parse your two paragraphs. Each seems to contradict the other.

For example, the phrase bolded by me: isn't that what you say GG DID say?

No he said he got water in his mouth. (no mentioning of water in his eyes while he could so easily have said that since it can't be verified)

Are you saying you find GG credible because sometimes he doesn't provide information until he's been asked several times? I'm wondering, because from Darlie Routier to Casey Anthony, nothing makes a suspect look guiltier to me than a willingness to recreate one's story every time one is confronted with an additional fact.

No I meant to say I found him credible, because when he was pressured he was trying to explain why he did not pay attention to Robyn (Baez found it to much information), he told about his contacts, water in his mouth, his shoes getting heavy.
Had he been lying he could have simply said, look I wear lenses, I got water in my eyes, that would be sufficient an explanation of not being visually observative.

 

[Dushi]

That's true. It isn't always possible for someone not trained as a lifeguard to rescue a panicking person. (BTW, the last I heard the best plan is to grab the person by the hair and pull them so they can't get hold of you and pull you under.)

But even if a rescue isn't possible, that doesn't mean you have to turn your back on that person and swim to shore with nary a look back.

As I said above, my husband and I were trapped in a rip current off Malibu. Since I'm the native Floridian, I was much calmer and offered to pull him behind me as I swam out of the current and into shore. He was quite panicked and yelled at me not to touch him.

So I swam a few feet away, all the way back to the beach. I did not turn my back and forge ahead without keeping track of his welfare.

Yes, everyone is different and GG is under no obligation to react the same as I. But come on...

And pardon my latent sexism, but even today men are socialized to be somewhat protective of females. (Didn't GG even have the gall to describe himself as RG's "protector" on TV last night?) What sorry excuse for a man swims off and doesn't even keep track of his female companion in the water?

Yeah
Hard to argue with that