ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 8

[Dushi]

as you know, the sun is not set at six o'clock
It would be low but its light out

 

[MaryAnn]

I never said the boat was waiting for her off shore; they just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Afterall, visibility is 15 miles.

Soliciting companions makes him possibly a dirty old man who lives a lifestyle many on here do not aprove of; not a murderer. If the mother daughter couple had gone with him, in your opinion, would they both be missing now?

Off topic, whats a CFO? (not meant to be snarky).

It was a typo. I meant UFO

How logical is it that a "human trafficking" boat is just waiting out there with the coast guard and everyone else out there. I would think that if they were out there on a regular basis, there would be a lot more young girls missing off the Island.

Yes, I think both Mother and Daughter would have gone missing. Double the insurance money.

 

[Dushi]

It was a typo. I meant UFO

How logical is it that a "human trafficking" boat is just waiting out there with the coast guard and everyone else out there. I would think that if they were out there on a regular basis, there would be a lot more young girls missing off the Island.

Yes, I think both Mother and Daughter would have gone missing. Double the insurance money.

The human trafficking story was thown out there to see if it would stick, nothng more IMO

I need to look up the Mother and daughter

Are you referring to the ones that did a TV interview?

 

[MaryAnn]

I have never mentioned murder, nor did you in your original question . In one of your responses you even mentioned "with out a weapon".

Your original question: #1 Originally Posted by MaryAnn
Wouldn't a caring person stop someone who was drunk/high from going into the ocean?
I would assume a caring person would be able to find non-violent, non physical ways to prevent a drunk/high person from going into the ocean. Especially a beautiful 35 year old female dealing with an older man.

I asked two questions, neither of which you have answered.

#1 What if that caring person was also drunk/high at the same time?

and

#2 If it was GG that never came back, would people be asking RG that same question? (question being: Wouldn't a caring person stop someone who was drunk/high from going into the ocean? )

You are taking my posts out of context. I said I didn't think most woman could take down a large Man like GG without a weapon. Yes, I think he intentionally planned and murdered RG

Yes, RG should have stopped GG from snorkeling if he were drunk, but GG is NOT the one missing so it's not relevant to this case is it???

 

[LambChop]

I think these thoughts are based on what you or I may do on Holiday

Its rather hard to determine what someone else may do
I agree, I would not be interested but thats not to say others wouldn't be
Some love a lovely busy resort, others like a more out of the way location

It seems to me that a lot of drunks don't give a thought to drinking and driving so I can't see that determining where they spent their days

Drunk drivers are gamblers because in order to get from point A to point B they have to drive without getting into an accident. They know better, they can't claim ignorance, they choose to be negligent. If they get caught, they pay the price. If they kill someone in the process they end up in jail. Being drunk is not an excuse for poor decision making, it's negligence. No one forces you to drink and if you drink too much you should be held accountable if an accident occurs, whatever that may be. Nothing wrong with drinking, it's just knowing when to stop. Responsible adults know when to stop. If you can't stop you need to be someplace where you can't hurt yourself or others. Too many innocent people die on a daily basis because of irreponsible drinkers.

If you are with someone and they have an alcohol problem and you keep filling their cup, you are just as much responsible for their actions as they are. In some states you are legally responsible. jmo

 

[MaryAnn]

The human trafficking story was thown out there to see if it would stick, nothng more IMO

I need to look up the Mother and daughter

Are you referring to the ones that did a TV interview?

Yes, the Mother was on Nancy Grace telling how GG initially contacted her Daughter. The Mother got on the phone pretending to be the Daughter. That's how she got the whole scoop of what GG had in mind.

 

[Dushi]

Drunk drivers are gamblers because in order to get from point A to point B they have to drive without getting into an accident. They know better, they can't claim ignorance, they choose to be negligent. If they get caught, they pay the price. If they kill someone in the process they end up in jail. Being drunk is not an excuse for poor decision making, it's negligence. No one forces you to drink and if you drink too much you should be held accountable if an accident occurs, whatever that may be. Nothing wrong with drinking, it's just knowing when to stop. Responsible adults know when to stop. If you can't stop you need to be someplace where you can't hurt yourself or others. Too many innocent people die on a daily basis because of irreponsible drinkers.

If you are with someone and they have an alcohol problem and you keep filling their cup, you are just as much responsible for their actions as they are. In some states you are legally responsible. jmo

Yes, I agree with everything you have said ....

But I am not sure what all of that has to do with GG and RG
He likely drank and drove
I think that can be determined by the cups they carried everywhere
Responsible? Well lots of bad choices were made here
Drinking and driving was probably one of them

 

[Dushi]

Yes, the Mother was on Nancy Grace telling how GG initially contacted her Daughter. The Mother got on the phone pretending to be the Daughter. That's how she got the whole scoop of what GG had in mind.

Thank you
I need to research this
I am vaguely remembering this interview

 

[LambChop]

as you know, the sun is not set at six o'clock
It would be low but its light out

Yes, I know. lol Okay funny story, O/T but it is about Aruba and I can relate it. My hubby and I were in the water around 5pm. I wanted to get out and he said he had sand in his suit he was going to take it off and get the sand out and be right out. You could not see in the water and he was about mid chest deep. As I was getting out I could see a little girl crying with her palm open and her dad was removing what looked like a small blowfish (spikes, yikes). As I walked out my friends on the beach started to laugh and said look at your husband, he's being funny, jumping around in the water like that. A small school of blowfish had come down through that area and sure enough went right past him as he was trying to put his swim trunks back on. So this was around 5pm in the afternoon, mid summer on Eagle Beach and you could not see anything in the water at that time. So that was the point I was trying to make. At that time of the day the visibility is very low and you can't see very far at all. I seriously doubt if they were in 10 to 15 foot of water that they could have seen anything sober much less half crocked. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Yes

But I am not sure what all of that has to do with GG and RG
He likely drank and drove

I believe the original question was from Rossva regarding GG being responsible for RG drinking and getting into the water and not stopping her if he felt she was drunk. The original question was back away and it just seems to keep going. lol

 

[Dushi]

Yes, I know. lol Okay funny story, O/T but it is about Aruba and I can relate it. My hubby and I were in the water around 5pm. I wanted to get out and he said he had sand in his suit he was going to take it off and get the sand out and be right out. You could not see in the water and he was about mid chest deep. As I was getting out I could see a little girl crying with her palm open and her dad was removing what looked like a small blowfish (spikes, yikes). As I walked out my friends on the beach started to laugh and said look at your husband, he's being funny, jumping around in the water like that. A small school of blowfish had come down through that area and sure enough went right past him as he was trying to put his swim trunks back on. So this was around 5pm in the afternoon, mid summer on Eagle Beach and you could not see anything in the water at that time. So that was the point I was trying to make. At that time of the day the visibility is very low and you can't see very far at all. I seriously doubt if they were in 10 to 15 foot of water that they could have seen anything sober much less half crocked. jmo

The shoreline is not in 10 to 15 feet of water

 

[Dushi]

I believe the original question was from Rossva regarding GG being responsible for RG drinking and getting into the water and not stopping her if he felt she was drunk. The original question was back away and it just seems to keep going. lol

I think I was responding to your theory of why he went there for sisnister reasons, based on they didn't have to leave the resort

But yes, it has gone on

 

[LambChop]

[/B]


The shoreline is not in 10 to 15 feet of water

In his interview, I think with GMA, GG claims they were in 10 to 15 feet of water when he "got into trouble" and had to swim for his life. So that is where that came from. Seems as if now he wants us to believe they were pretty far out. I'm not sure where the shoreline drops off into deeper water right in that area. And I'm not sure what he said originally about how far out they were. jmo

 

[MaryAnn]

Yes, I know. lol Okay funny story, O/T but it is about Aruba and I can relate it. My hubby and I were in the water around 5pm. I wanted to get out and he said he had sand in his suit he was going to take it off and get the sand out and be right out. You could not see in the water and he was about mid chest deep. As I was getting out I could see a little girl crying with her palm open and her dad was removing what looked like a small blowfish (spikes, yikes). As I walked out my friends on the beach started to laugh and said look at your husband, he's being funny, jumping around in the water like that. A small school of blowfish had come down through that area and sure enough went right past him as he was trying to put his swim trunks back on. So this was around 5pm in the afternoon, mid summer on Eagle Beach and you could not see anything in the water at that time. So that was the point I was trying to make. At that time of the day the visibility is very low and you can't see very far at all. I seriously doubt if they were in 10 to 15 foot of water that they could have seen anything sober much less half crocked. jmo

LOL.... OUch! Your poor hubby. That is funny

 

[Nova]

I think I was responding to your theory of why he went there for sisnister reasons, based on they didn't have to leave the resort

But yes, it has gone on

I don't know that it matters, since I don't believe human traffickers just happened by and plucked RG from the water. But per the many formulae at the Wiki site on the subject, an average height person standing on the beach would find the horizon a little over 3 miles (5K) away.

A person in the water would see considerably less distance, since the closer your eyes are to the ground (or water), the closer the horizon.

This doesn't mean Lampchop's 15 mile figure is wrong. It may be assuming the observer is higher up on the deck of a boat or ship. Or is looking at a taller object (i.e., another boat) in the distance. Or both.

Horizon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LambChop]

I don't know that it matters, since I don't believe human traffickers just happened by and plucked RG from the water. But per the many formulae at the Wiki site on the subject, an average height person standing on the beach would find the horizon a little over 3 miles (5K) away.

A person in the water would see considerably less distance, since the closer your eyes are to the ground (or water), the closer the horizon.

This doesn't mean Lampchop's 15 mile figure is wrong. It may be assuming the observer is higher up on the deck of a boat or ship. Or is looking at a taller object (i.e., another boat) in the distance. Or both.

Horizon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LOL. I was basing it on the fact that you can see the horizon which is about 15 miles away but not necessarily what would be in the water. On a clear day you can see the mountains in Venezuela. The mountains are not that clearly visible but you can make them out. If there were a cruise ship out in the water it would probably appear to be a speck on the horizon. What I was trying to say is in the water you can see pretty far out so any small boats in the area are quite visible because there is nothing to block your view......unless one of those tankers is sitting there in the water but generally you can see pretty far without any obstructions. Boats are very visible.

I remember going out on the fishing boat and we were way out. Looking back at the land the lighthouse looked about an inch high. So how far were we out? I don't know but the lighthouse is really, really tall when you stand next to it. lol jmo

 

[Dushi]

In his interview, I think with GMA, GG claims they were in 10 to 15 feet of water when he "got into trouble" and had to swim for his life. So that is where that came from. Seems as if now he wants us to believe they were pretty far out. I'm not sure where the shoreline drops off into deeper water right in that area. And I'm not sure what he said originally about how far out they were. jmo

I really don't know
just responding to your posts about depth and light

 

[Dushi]

I don't know that it matters, since I don't believe human traffickers just happened by and plucked RG from the water. But per the many formulae at the Wiki site on the subject, an average height person standing on the beach would find the horizon a little over 3 miles (5K) away.

A person in the water would see considerably less distance, since the closer your eyes are to the ground (or water), the closer the horizon.

This doesn't mean Lampchop's 15 mile figure is wrong. It may be assuming the observer is higher up on the deck of a boat or ship. Or is looking at a taller object (i.e., another boat) in the distance. Or both.

Horizon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am actually not questioning Lambchops observation
I am trying to understand it

Are we talking about light on shore, getting into the water or ten to fifteen feet out?

 

[LambChop]

I am actually not questioning Lambchops observation
I am trying to understand it

Are we talking about light on shore, getting into the water or ten to fifteen feet out?

Okay, I can see the confusion. I think it was on GMA, GG said they were snorkeling in 10 to 15 feet of water, so according to GG they were out a distance from the shoreline. Not 10 to 15 foot from shore but he claims they were in 10 to 15 foot of water when he got into trouble. I said, at that time of the evening which would have been around 6pm because he was at the Rum Runner around 6:20, there would not have been enough light in the water to see anything in the water because the sun set at 7:02. Seems like perfect timing for being unable to find someone in the water had she gone to the bottom. If he is saying he was in 10 to 15 water how would he know how deep the water was when you could not see the bottom????

This is just another inconsistency in his story. As I mentioned before I was in the water at 5pm at one time and a school of fish went right by me as I was getting out of the water and I never saw them. jmo

 

[Nova]

LOL. I was basing it on the fact that you can see the horizon which is about 15 miles away but not necessarily what would be in the water. On a clear day you can see the mountains in Venezuela. The mountains are not that clearly visible but you can make them out. If there were a cruise ship out in the water it would probably appear to be a speck on the horizon. What I was trying to say is in the water you can see pretty far out so any small boats in the area are quite visible because there is nothing to block your view......unless one of those tankers is sitting there in the water but generally you can see pretty far without any obstructions. Boats are very visible.

I remember going out on the fishing boat and we were way out. Looking back at the land the lighthouse looked about an inch high. So how far were we out? I don't know but the lighthouse is really, really tall when you stand next to it. lol jmo

The factors in the equation are the height of the observer's eyes and the distance to the "true horizon." For a person who is 5'7", that distance is only about 3 miles. To see 15 miles, you'd have to be on something that elevated your eyes 5 times, or to about 27.5 feet high (perhaps the deck of a cruise ship or the bridge of a good-sized fishing boat?). (And for a person in the water with his eyes barely above the water line, he's only going to see a distance in the tens of feet or so.)

But you are talking about the "visible horizon" when you begin to mention lighthouses and Venezuelan mountains. If the object observed isn't at sea level, that changes the equation from the other end. So you might well stand on a beach and see Venezuelan mountains that are 17+ miles away, because of their height.

(All of this is assuming clear weather, no obstructions, etc.

And while I'm sorry if this seems tedious, Lambchop, please keep in mind it was you who made me go and learn this stuff. LOL.)