ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 9

[Saracen]

Salem started a rumor vs fact page, which I could have sworn you mentioned in a post. I'd point you to it, but I can't find it

The link is the first post on the first page of this thread.

 

[vlpate]

The link is the first post on the first page of this thread.

Thank you

 

[Dushi]

Salem started a rumor vs fact page, which I could have sworn you mentioned in a post. I'd point you to it, but I can't find it

Excuse me??
Forgive me, but I have no idea what you are talking about

 

[vlpate]

Excuse me??
Forgive me, but I have no idea what you are talking about

I thought you mentioned in a post that you were going to post something to that thread....maybe it was someone else. No offense meant dushi.

 

[neesaki]

All I can tell you is if there was blood in the car it was not noticable according to the rental company
What LE did after that is unknown

I don't believe the rumour as Stein has already discredited that saying there is no such witness

And as sad as it is, crime goes unpunished everywhere , sometimes with far more evidence than in this case, imo

As far as choosing Aruba as a vacation spot, more than half a million people do it every year

This is theoretically speaking, as we have no way of knowing:

Let's just say that the beating in the car did happen, and the witnesses came forward after it was too late, in other words, the car had already been cleaned up. And if if it did happen, then if GG was using his hands and / or fists, there could possibly be little if any blood. We're talking bruising and closed head injuries, concussions, etc., most likely no open, bleeding wounds, i.e., very little blood if any, IMO.

And please believe, that I am in no way saying this to bring discredit to ALE, this kind of thing happens all the time in the U.S. as well. It just happens. LE are human beings, and human beings make mistakes.

What I'm saying is, if ALE heard from some witnesses this story, yet the car had already been cleaned and the evidence destroyed, well, what could ALE say or do at that point. It would be too late to recover the evidence. They would look bad for not confiscating the car, and it would be too late to do anything to prove the witness accounts because the evidence is gone.

So the witness accounts would have little or no credence, certainly nothing that could be proven.

Just a thought, though not a very positive one, JMO.

 

[neesaki]

Giordano reported Robyn Missing within 1 hour and 48 minutes after she was last seen alive, he filed a missing persons report with Aruban Authorities, he contacted the American Embassy, Robyn's family was notified.

It seems all the important authorities and people were informed by or via Giordano, I do not see the ticket agent as someone that truly needed to be filled in about the situation. What was he to say to her, that his travel companion had disappeared while out at sea, that they were snorkeling, that he wasn't sure if she would be found alive since a couple of days had passed already? How would the ticket agent react to that, Robyn's flight had not been cancelled apparently since why else would she ask Giordano about his travel companion, so maybe she would ask if he had informed authorities and he then would say he had, but maybe she would think this being a situation where she had to report to her superiors, maybe ALE would be called and he would not be allowed to leave until the superior of the ticket agent knew the proper authorities were aware of the situation.
Giordano wanted to leave Aruba, he was told he was free to leave and had an attorney prior to leaving, his flight was to leave soon, by filling in the ticket agent he would cause commotion with as a result that he probably would not be on his flight. He may have taken his decision not to tell her based on that.

The fact that he wanted to leave Aruba so soon is another discussion, but when just talking about the ticket and me personally still not convinced that Giordano harmed Robyn, I do not see him not willing to share everything that had happened as something suspicious or an outright lie but more as him trying to prevent a situation he did not want to be in.


It would have been different had Giordano caused Robyn to disappear, did not tell a soul, then fled the island and then told the ticket agent that Robyn would be taking a later flight. IMO

BM: Well, unfortunately, I have to disagree. I wish I didn't have to, but....

For one thing, lying at this stage of the game just makes GG looks guilty. I don't expect him to have enough insight into that to realize it of course, so
expecting him to is unrealistic.

So take it from another standpoint: In this time of over the top, Police State type airport security, I think GG should at least know better than to lie about his travel companion to the ticket agent or anyone else at the airport.Any obvious untruths are going to raise red flags.

I mean , his travel companion has mysteriously gone missing, and his primary thought is to lie to the ticket agent about Robyn's whereabouts? That's just plain stupid unless he is looking to get detained, questioned, groped, and x-rayed til his teeth fall out. Sorry, I am a cynic and the TSA just flat p***** me off. I personally am avoiding flying now as much as possible. JMO.

But I'm getting OT, so I'll get off my soapbox now. :innocent:

 

[Micheline]

@ Lambchop and Neesaki.

Maybe I understand it wrong, but do you believe Giordano was arrested at the airport because he lied to the ticket agent?

 

[neesaki]

Yes, I realize that. What I was trying to ask is LE did not seem to know he was leaving if they were planning on arresting him they would have done so before he arrived at the airport not waited until he passed through US Customs. The fact that the agent asked the question tells me that person was looking at the computer at that point and saw two departures scheduled and where was the other person and may not have been immediately aware of who he was. It appears when he lied it alerted them and LE was called. You have to show your passport to the ticket agent when you get up to the counter so they knew who he was once he handed them his passport. He was getting ready to board that plane when they arrived that is cutting it pretty close for something that was planned. jmo

What I would give to see the look on GG's face when ALE showed up and he realized he wasn't going to get out of this as easy as he thought he would.

I mean, the way things are going, this might be the only :justice: we get in this case.

 

[neesaki]

@ Lambchop and Neesaki.

Maybe I understand it wrong, but do you believe Giordano was arrested at the airport because he lied to the ticket agent?

I believe they were preparing to arrest him anyway because of the insurance policy and questions they already had concerning witness accounts, etc.

Maybe the ticket agent, realizing who GG was alerted the authorities that he was leaving the country without his companion. When ALE realized he was leaving, that's what triggered the arrest at that moment. JMO

 

[vlpate]

@ Lambchop and Neesaki.

Maybe I understand it wrong, but do you believe Giordano was arrested at the airport because he lied to the ticket agent?

I, personally, think it goes to his suspicious behavior after Robyn went missing. I can't imagine anyone would think he was arrested for lying to a ticket agent when he is a suspect in a disappearance.

 

[JeannieC]

"No Body Murder Cases" is a web site started by Thomas A. (Tad) DiBiase, former Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia. He has successfully prosecuted 2 murder cases without the deceased's body and has dedicated this site to other cases in the U.S.

You might find this interesting:

• Why federal prosecutors should take over the "no body" murder prosecution of Gary Giordano
posted by Admin on December 10th, 2011 at 1:02 PM

But that’s here in the U.S. and it doesn’t appear that a no body case has ever been prosecuted in Aruba. However, due to a little known facet of the U.S. federal criminal code, any prosecution of Giordano does not have to be lodged in Aruba: Giordano can be prosecuted right here in the U.S. Under Title 18, Section 1119 of the U.S. Code, a U.S. national who murders a fellow U.S. national in another country can be prosecuted in the United States if four conditions are met. First, and foremost, the person cannot have been prosecuted in the foreign country.

http://nobodycases.com/blog.html

 

[Dushi]

"No Body Murder Cases" is a web site started by Thomas A. (Tad) DiBiase, former Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia. He has successfully prosecuted 2 murder cases without the deceased's body and has dedicated this site to other cases in the U.S.

You might find this interesting:



http://nobodycases.com/blog.html

WOW

I had no idea

Thank you, it is very interesting

 

[LambChop]

@ Lambchop and Neesaki.

Maybe I understand it wrong, but do you believe Giordano was arrested at the airport because he lied to the ticket agent?

No. He was arrested because he tried to leave without letting LE know. His lying to the agent was obviously an issue or he would have never mentioned it and made a big deal about on national tv. Someone tipped off the police he was leaving whether it was the agent, immigration or US Customs. I don't think LE would have waited until he was minutes from getting on that plane to arrest him. jmo

 

[LambChop]

"No Body Murder Cases" is a web site started by Thomas A. (Tad) DiBiase, former Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia. He has successfully prosecuted 2 murder cases without the deceased's body and has dedicated this site to other cases in the U.S.

You might find this interesting:



http://nobodycases.com/blog.html

So if ALE were working with the FBI they could be building a better case on him and the judge may have felt send him back and let the US handle the matter since the insurance policy is a possible motive. jmo

 

[Dushi]

No. He was arrested because he tried to leave without letting LE know. His lying to the agent was obviously an issue or he would have never mentioned it and made a big deal about on national tv. Someone tipped off the police he was leaving whether it was the agent, immigration or US Customs. I don't think LE would have waited until he was minutes from getting on that plane to arrest him. jmo

When he was told he was free to leave, was he also told he had to inform LE if he left the island? I had not read that anywhere

 

[LambChop]

When he was told he was free to leave, was he also told he had to inform LE if he left the island? I had not read that anywhere

I don't believe it was stated anywhere that LE told him he was free to leave the country just that GG claims his attorney said he could leave and also the US Consolute. Wouldn't you think his attorney would have checked with LE before telling him it was okay to leave? His attorney will not discuss the matter only saying that GG is aware of what the truth is so if LE showed up right before he was ready to board the plane I would say they had no idea GG planned to leave that day.

We are left with a lot of speculation because we can't get much information from the Aruban authorities. All we have are sparse reports and what GG has claimed during his short media tour. Some things we have discovered that did not make sense at first but they now do, however there are some big questions about could this have really happened the way he claims. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Much of what we do talk about here is speculation. And since we are trying to figure out what happened and was this a crime it brings to the surface some good questions. Obviously if this happened the way GG claims it happened and it was an accident the story he tells would fall into place. Our sleuthing would uncover more facts that coincide with his story than not. The truth is always important and that is what we are after so the speculation is just a tool we use to try and fit it in between the facts that we known happened to what he claims happened. To me there are just too many inconsistencies to believe his story. jmo

 

[Dushi]

I don't believe it was stated anywhere that LE told him he was free to leave the country just that GG claims his attorney said he could leave and also the US Consolute. Wouldn't you think his attorney would have checked with LE before telling him it was okay to leave? His attorney will not discuss the matter only saying that GG is aware of what the truth is so if LE showed up right before he was ready to board the plane I would say they had no idea GG planned to leave that day.

We are left with a lot of speculation because we can't get much information from the Aruban authorities. All we have are sparse reports and what GG has claimed during his short media tour. Some things we have discovered that did not make sense at first but they now do, however there are some big questions about could this have really happened the way he claims. jmo

This is what was said by TS
What is your interpretation of it?


"He was first interrogated as a witness and in that position, he was told he was free to leave," Stein said. "In evaluating his statements later on, we decided there were some things that were not correct and that changed our position towards him to seeing him as a suspect. At that point in time we decided that we wouldn't want him to leave the island," Stein said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-missi...ry?id=14271819

 

[Dushi]

Much of what we do talk about here is speculation. And since we are trying to figure out what happened and was this a crime it brings to the surface some good questions. Obviously if this happened the way GG claims it happened and it was an accident the story he tells would fall into place. Our sleuthing would uncover more facts that coincide with his story than not. The truth is always important and that is what we are after so the speculation is just a tool we use to try and fit it in between the facts that we known happened to what he claims happened. To me there are just too many inconsistencies to believe his story. jmo

I agree, it is mostly speculation and every now and then we find we have been wrong, like with the storm

There are not many facts out there to uncover, IMO
So it is always good when we find something that proves or disproves speculation

 

[LambChop]

This is what was said by TS
What is your interpretation of it?


"He was first interrogated as a witness and in that position, he was told he was free to leave," Stein said. "In evaluating his statements later on, we decided there were some things that were not correct and that changed our position towards him to seeing him as a suspect. At that point in time we decided that we wouldn't want him to leave the island," Stein said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-missi...ry?id=14271819

I would say LE did not want him to leave. He had an attorney at the time and if GG is saying he discussed it with his attorney and the US Consulate they should have cleared it with LE and then told GG he was free to leave. We have not heard from the attorney nor the US Consulate that they told GG he was free to leave. What we are left with is GG's version of what he was told.

Could it be that he was told, by his then attorney, that they may try to detain him and he decided he'd better leave. It appears he never called the airlines to change his ticket as you would think he would do but showed up and asked for the next flight out (within the hour).

The very fact that his attorney (ML) will not substantiate his story is not good. Certainly he would give his attorney permission to release information that was beneficial to him and his attorney only claims confidentiality and that GG knows what was discussed. That does not look good for GG. jmo