Aunt Interview/Stepmom says Zahra Died Sept 24 *merged*

[tlcya]

While they haven't been confirmed, they are alleged in the recent warrants. The one specifically talking about "S"Y.

Gotcha. So it is still alleged. I believe with a pretty great degree of cetainty that there is some drug involvement here, but I was trying to illustrate that at this point it is still "alleged".

There are folks who are stating that it is a known fact. I just wanted to caution that while probably 99.9% of us believe that to be true, it is most certainly not a known fact at this time.

 

[believe09]

The aunt quoted in the news story says that the reason they panicked was that they were worried about AB's illegal immigration status and EB's having been investigated by child protective agencies. That would make sense as a reason for hiding her death (though extremely heartless), but it would not make sense as a reason for dismembering her. I still do not understand the motivation for that. It's not like she was so huge that her body would be hard to transport or conceal. (Yuck.)

JMO

If I can express a personal opinion, I think she read that excuse on the blogs and decided to use it. it is complete and utter horse puckey-fine she dies, they are worried, they sew her up in a blanket and bury her somewhere.

The rest does not even make it into the realm of possibility. The dismemberment was intentional, the disposal, the concocted story, the fire..I mean it is endless. The death was clearly intentional, imo, and then the rest was cover-up for either the expected inquiry by DSS or inquiry by relatives. JMVHO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

If I can express a personal opinion, I think she read that excuse on the blogs and decided to use it. it is complete and utter horse puckey-fine she dies, they are worried, they sew her up in a blanket and bury her somewhere.

The rest does not even make it into the realm of possibility. The dismemberment was intentional, the disposal, the concocted story, the fire..I mean it is endless. The death was clearly intentional, imo, and then the rest was cover-up for either the expected inquiry by DSS or inquiry by relatives. JMVHO.

I'm begining to lean this way myself, Believe. I'm starting to think something horrific was going on in the Baker household, and Zahra was about to tell.

JMO (and it's subject to change.)

 

[believe09]

I'm one of those people that don't entirely believe the furniture store sighting of EB and Zahra. I firmly believe that a person (good with dates or not) would know what date a child in their care died. That is something that will stick in a person's mind. I also believe that there is no reason for EB to lie about the date that Zahra died. What would the purpose of that be? I can see about telling lies as to how the child died, who killed her, who dismembered her and who "dumped" her but not the date.

There is a connection between at least two of the women at the furniture store and someone that is not in all of this mess but is on the outskirts of it. I also find it extremely odd that for some unknown reasons the security camaras had not been turned on that day. Also, and I need some help remembering this part exactly, wasn't there conflicting stories from the 3 furniture store workers?! Like two said that EB and Zahra was there on the 25th and another one said that it was EB, Zahra and an unidentified woman?!

I don't believe more than half of what comes out of EBs mouth but I do tend to believe her on the date of death.

BBM-what is the connection? TIA

 

[Jacie Estes]

I find myself starting to believe that Zahra did indeed pass either on or very close to September 24. Things are starting to add up. I can't discount the workers at the furniture store seeing Zahra on the 25th, it is quite possible that EB wasn't herself sure of the date in reality.

What I do not believe is that Zahra was either ill for 2 weeks or that she died of natural causes. I find it much more likely that Zahra died as as a result of a punishing beating doled out by EB herself. Also what adds up for me, after reading the Charlotte Observer article, is that both AB and EB were very much aware that AB was here illegally. This is the story EB is using to justify the panic, but I have serious doubts that EB would have been privy to the fact that Immigration Services contacted LE to advise AB was here illegally. We now have confirmation he was here illegally.

Of course that raises many more questions, particularly about the potential that Zahra hardly ever, if at all, received medical treatment of any type while she was in the US. Another question it raises for me, if they were scared to get help for Zahra or to call appropriate authorities upon her death - what changed to make them think they could get away with reporting Zahra missing? AY avoided my question to him about the significance of 20 September, I now seriously wonder why since we now have information regarding his denied contact with EB. Some things I buy, somethings not so much. I absolutely do not buy that Zahra died of natural causes though - the dismemberment activity is a clear effort of trying to hide serious wrong doing. I also find myself believing EB when she says AB helped dispose of Zahra, EB would not have bothered to dig a semi grave for Zahra, she didn't care enough to do that, AB or AY might have though.

That is the contradiction here. Dismembering is a gruesome act, done out of hatred/evilness. Burying the remains is an act of care [no matter the horror of the act of murder]; it is done by someone who has a heart interest in the victim. A part of a prosthesis thrown in a dumpster is not the act of someone who cares, no matter how little, for the victim. Will other remains of Zahra be found buried elsewhere?

I have to wonder if the actions of the perpetrators will become clinical/textbook studies in the future. Strange mix of dynamics in this case.

IMHO

 

[Etilema]

That is the contradiction here. Dismembering is a gruesome act, done out of hatred/evilness. Burying the remains is an act of care [no matter the horror of the act of murder]; it is done by someone who has a heart interest in the victim. A part of a prosthesis thrown in a dumpster is not the act of someone who cares, no matter how little, for the victim. Will other remains of Zahra be found buried elsewhere?

I have to wonder if the actions of the perpetrators will become clinical/textbook studies in the future. Strange mix of dynamics in this case.

IMHO

BBM

Unless maybe it was just an attempt to hide remains that were still to recognizable to safely leave lying around in the open?

 

[Etilema]

BBM

Unless maybe it was just an attempt to hide remains that were still to recognizable to safely leave lying around in the open?

Actually, I just recalled a case I know of personally, in which a person killed for drug/gang related reasons was taken into the woods and buried. It was clearly to hide the evidence, not out of caring.

JMO

 

[DLT88]

"She'd been sick two weeks before she died," Winkler said. "When they found her, I guess they didn't know what to do. They just went wild." Aunt Buzzy

Huh? I'm sorry but this is a very weird choice of words. You go wild when you win the lottery or go on spring break. Not when some someone dies. That sounds so celebratory. Gross.

And I also don't believe one word EB says. I'll bet that comment was thought out as an excuse and she told it to Aunt B so it would get out into the media on purpose. I don't believe for one second that child died a normal death. What a croc of an alibi.

 

[angelmom]

Actually, I just recalled a case I know of personally, in which a person killed for drug/gang related reasons was taken into the woods and buried. It was clearly to hide the evidence, not out of caring.

JMO

I agree.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/14378135/detail.html
After a week-long trial, it took only 90 minutes for the jury to find Tiffany Cole guilty of two counts of murder in the deaths of Carol and Reggie Sumner. Prosecutors said they were taken from their home in July 2005, forced to turn over the access number to their ATM card, then buried alive.

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-04/news/mn-53660_1_robert-chan
The prosecution alleged that Chan masterminded the murder because he believed Tay was about to double-cross him in a plan to rob an Anaheim computer parts dealer. The plan unraveled when Chan discovered that Tay was lying to him about his name, age and background and feared that Tay was a police informant.

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/...man-found-dead-in-shallow-grave-near-pattaya/
Officers interrogated both suspects who revealed that they had deceived Mr. Jarungchatchawan to meet at the location before they murdered him with the use of a shotgun, stones and a shovel.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

IMO, I do not and never will believe Zahra died of 'natural causes' and that AB/EB panicked!
Why the dismemberment??? To HIDE abuse! murder!
The lies, ransom note, fire? cover up.........to extreme 2 weeks later?!
Why not just bury the poor child???? There's more unanswered questions.

I will never believe that either. Wonder what story they will tell as to why they didn't take her to the doctor during that 2 weeks! Sick enough to die, and not one visit to the doctor! :sick: What liers...oh yeah, and murderers!

 

[Etilema]

I agree with the post upthread that pointed out that if they were afraid of AB being discovered to be an illegal immigrant, it wouldn't make sense to call the police. Clearly they risked being discovered at that point. Likewise, if they were concerned about EB's multiple run-ins with social services, having a child disappear from your home under any circumstances is not likely to divert suspicion!

Like so many have said, dismembering and hiding the body very clearly seems to imply that they either wanted to conceal evidence of abuse of some kind, or derived enjoyment from the act itself.

ARGH!

JMO

 

[Reannan]

My favorite new fantasy goes something like this:
Aunt goes to jail to visit EB. EB tells Aunt that Zahra died September 24, 2010 after a two week illness. She and AB were really "horrified by that", and panicked, so, they did something that caused the crime scene investigators to have to cut out the wall behind the bed and the floor on the side of where the bed would have been in Zahra's room. EB took a nap or something, while AB "did something kind of horrible" and dismembered Zahra quietly in the bathroom. Then, just for craps and giggles, they did a sloppy paint job on the room.

Here comes my favorite part of my fantasy........

The Aunt grabs EB by the collar of her orange prison-issued shirt, and cries out "BS!!!!"

I can't really go into much other detail because I would get a time out. :great: :angel:

 

[Allusonz]

i can honestly only think of one reason this would be said by her or for her benefit

and that would be for an insanity defense

 

[revampz]

"12. On November 3, 2010, a Web Sleuth User with the handle of "NoeticSoul" blogged that she was an IMVU user and that she had a conversation with Adam Baker and/or Elisa Baker regarding their involvement with chain saw massacre role-playing and information that Aaron Young was also involved in this role-playing as well. The date of September 22nd was given regarding their virtual family "doing a murder with chainsaws". NoeticSoul also noted that a user name that needed to be watched was "sweetlilspitfire69" as possibly connected to this case as well. NoeticSoul had advised that an employee of IMVU had confirmed to her that Elisa Baker, Adam Baker, Aaron Young, and Kava Fullman were all active IMVU users and that all accounts except Adam Baker's had been active as of 10/29/2010."

IMVU Warrants
pg 6/6
0104part5

bbm: could this be the info for the 9/22 date that you were thinking of?
ETA: if these dates are correct then the 9/22 IMVU chainsaw massacre, then 9/24 Zahra dies, and in/or around that same time EB purchases a new mattress (creepy!)

another thing I am interested in after reading the above.....remember the $10000 she got from the man in the UK......now wonder what that was all about???

I think the real answer to this case is going to be horrifying. I personally think she may have died,, am not sure yet if it was from an illness or a hit in the head or similar yet, but the dismembering is totally over the top, even for people "in a state of panic"..............for goodness sake, bury her in the bushes if you dont want her found, why dismember her????

and to me this is where I think the above roleplaying crossed into the real world, after they roleplayed (or conversed about?) a chainsaw massacre.

Just this alone is horrifying enough, but to me AB would be the evilest of them all if he did in fact take part in this!!!!

I am on the fence about this, as I just dont WANT to beleive it, but if the date of the disposal was the 25th(and this is looking likely if the LE say her phones pinged in those locations that date) then how does AB explain not seeing her for that length of time??

 

[Shear22]

I think it's entirely possible that the ladies from the furniture store might be off by a week. It's hard to remember the exact day something happened when several weeks have passed and I keep thinking of the entire Casey Anthony family stating that June 9 was the last day they saw Caylee until the Father's day video came out and it turned out that they were a week off. I wish we knew what the furniture ladies remembered to make them think that it was the 25th.

Also, I wonder why EB took Zahra to the furniture store anyway, whatever day it was. It seems like SOP was to leave Zahra in her room and there aren't any other sightings of her for quite a while that we know of. Why suddenly take her to the furniture store?

 

[Camille]

I've been lurking here for quite some time but this is my first post. If AB were seriously worried about being an illegal immigrant he wouldn't have been writing bad checks all over the place. I think I read that's what he was arrested for.


An illegal immigrant with warrants out on him for bad checks who starts fires in his own backyard and then calls 911 to have them put out. Then he calls in to 911 about a ransom note found in his vehicle. He obviously doesn't have a very high IQ. You have to wonder if EB hasn't been working on setting him up for a while. She had found a new toy. What better way to get rid of AB than to frame him for his daughter's murder. Then she gets rid of two birds with one stone.

Just a thought...

 

[wenwe4]

I've been lurking here for quite some time but this is my first post. If AB were seriously worried about being an illegal immigrant he wouldn't have been writing bad checks all over the place. I think I read that's what he was arrested for.


An illegal immigrant with warrants out on him for bad checks who starts fires in his own backyard and then calls 911 to have them put out. Then he calls in to 911 about a ransom note found in his vehicle. He obviously doesn't have a very high IQ. You have to wonder if EB hasn't been working on setting him up for a while. She had found a new toy. What better way to get rid of AB than to frame him for his daughter's murder. Then she gets rid of two birds with one stone.

Just a thought...

Welcome to WS Camille!
I agree with your (first post) and given the info that is coming out about AB's cell phone not pinging in the areas of disposal but EB's phone is, AB not being logged into IMVU @ the time of the virtual chainsaw massacre (according to reports), and EB going to the furniture store without AB (yet another female was with her - IIRC?). I think there were many things that EB was not honest with AB (ie: marriage to AY, her alleged sexual relationship with SY, her alleged drug involvement, her previous CPS history, money coming from the man in the UK, calling AY her brother instead of her husband, illegal marriage to AB, even the most recent CPS involvement for the black eye in the summer of 2010 - I bet was not completely divulged to AB).

 

[Kamille]

I've been lurking here for quite some time but this is my first post. If AB were seriously worried about being an illegal immigrant he wouldn't have been writing bad checks all over the place. I think I read that's what he was arrested for.


An illegal immigrant with warrants out on him for bad checks who starts fires in his own backyard and then calls 911 to have them put out. Then he calls in to 911 about a ransom note found in his vehicle. He obviously doesn't have a very high IQ. You have to wonder if EB hasn't been working on setting him up for a while. She had found a new toy. What better way to get rid of AB than to frame him for his daughter's murder. Then she gets rid of two birds with one stone.

Just a thought...

Welcome Camille! (great name BTW LOL)

The only explanation for AB not knowing about Zahra's death at this point is that this was a premeditated plan by EB and perhaps some other as yet unknown person(s) to get rid of both of them one way or another so I agree with you on that possibility. But if LE can come up with concrete evidence to suggest that the date of the 24th is accurate, AB has lied and is involved...I can't see any other possibility.

Hopefully the ME's report has helped with the timeline as to when Zahra may have been killed and subsequently buried at the Dudley Shoals location. Might not be possible though as it's only a couple of weeks leeway that they have.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

Welcome Camille, great firts post, look forward to more in future

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I know this adds nothing to the discussion, so sorry... But WTH? Whose first reaction to a child dead of illness/natural causes is to cut them up???

(ETA: Even if they didn't want to "found out" for whatever reason, why not just bury her and move or something?)

Sorry, that's pretty rhetorical, but... damn.