AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #2

[crabstick]

You would be stupid to draw $5000 out your bank account each day and pay cash. But cutting out the middle man and paying cash direct costs about a quarter of the price for labour. Overheads are 15%+ alone just on insurance and superannuation.
Some businesses keep some cash in safes. And many would only pay a small percentage of the workforce 'cash in hand' tax free payments unless they really want an audit.

Its only speculation that Karlie is fruit picking but her hands looked dirty in the photo. Really, we want to know where the hell Karlie went and what time? If Karlie was an unofficial member of the drag racing community maybe she was working in a fairy floss van?
At the motocross serving hotdogs?

KARLIE JADE “ANGEL” TIMELINE

November 8, 2008: Karlie Jade last seen with her daughter Khandalyce on Stuart Highway near Coober Pedy, SA

September 4, 2009: Reported missing by Karlie’s mother. Withdrawn six days later after Karlie made contact with her mother.

August 29, 2010: Unidentified female’s body found in the Belanglo State Forest south of Sydney

September 15, 2010: Ivan Milat ruled out as a suspect

December, 2011: Police appeal for help from public, release computer-generated image created by Australia’s only facial anthropologist

November, 2012: Police entertain theory that Ivan Milat’s nephew Matthew could have been involved with ‘Angel’s’ death

October 21, 2015: Police announce they have identified ‘Angel’ as Karlie Jade Pearce-Stevenson

KHANDALYCE KIARA PEARCE TIMELINE

November 8, 2008: Khandalyce last seen with her mother Karlie Jade on Stuart Highway near Coober Pedy, SA

September 4, 2009: Reported missing by Karlie’s mum

October 9, 2009: Missing person’s report withdrawn

April/May, 2015: Strange man, about 60, seen carrying a suitcase seen heading out of Wynarka, SA

July 14, 2015: The bones of Khandalyce were found in a weathered suitcase dumped beside a South Australian highway 1.5km outside the tiny town of Wynarka

July 29, 2015: 43 children including Madeleine McCann ruled out as the potential victim. William Tyrell also ruled out quickly.

October 21, 2015: Police announce they have identified the young girl as Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, from Alice Springs

October 22, 2015

Website: news.com.au
Title: Detectives link Wynarka girl’s bones in suitcase to ‘Angel’ bones in Belanglo
Author: n/a
October 22, 2015
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...lSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Twitter

The mother and daughter were from Alice Springs but had left in search of work. The pair travelled to Adelaide in November, 2008. It is unknown how long they stayed in the city before travelling to NSW, where Karlie’s body was found.

Title: Thirteen unanswered questions in murders of Belanglo ‘Angel’ and girl in the Wynarka suitcase
news.com.au
October 22, 2015
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...wynarka-suitcase/story-fnii5s3x-1227578184870

Paraphrasing my previous post <modsnip> from The Australian...
The Chief Commander of the NT Police explained that the missing persons report was cancelled by Colleen Povey (Karlie's mother) when she reported that she had got through to Karlie on her mobile phone and ascertained that she and her granddaughter were alive and well in Canberra. Police saw no reason to doubt Mrs Povey's evidence as she was clearly relieved

I find it hard to believe she wasn't getting benefits. single mums dont have to report every fortnight and she would of been getting atleast $1000 a fortnight, id say police know she was getting benefits because they know of her previous locations that she would of reported to centrelink to claim renting assistance

&#8220;We know that at different times they have been in Darwin, Alice Springs, Adelaide, Canberra &#8230; we know that they stayed in cabin parks, motels and caravan parks along those routes and possibly along the Murray Mallee and Riverlands,&#8221; Bray said.

Dirty hands, cant see engagement ring on hand below pic. Her hands may appear dirty due to image editing by journos

Image: SA Police

Also, consider the logistics of paying your fruit pickers in cash.
Firstly you have to make arrangements the previous day if you want to withdrawn over $5k in cash at a country bank (well you do here in SA anyway) as they don't keep huge sums these days.
Then you have to drive a long way to the bank, collect the money (having worked out which denominations you need to make up all the pay packets), make up each pay packet, drive back to the property and pay the workers.
It's ridiculous not to simply pay by electronic transfer.
I'd be genuinely surprised to find any legitimate operator paying their workers in cash in the 21st century.

 

[sosocurious]

To be honest with you, I see cash paid quite a bit. I don't think there is any law that says you cant be paid in cash. Some people are still given cash as wages. Its the group certificate at the end that matters. While the ATO waves the banner of integrity, any business paying employees in cash without a group certificate is paying essentially 50% tax. Its when the business receives income in cash and 'doesn't declare that tax' that it rips the ATO off. So cash payments happen, and sometimes the pay is a lot lot less than on the books. If Karlie was earning less than $18000, she is better off on the books because she pays no income tax, and receives benefits.

The fact that Karlies mum put in a missing persons report meant Karies mum was concerned for Karlies welfare. The fact police couldnt find or didnt check bank accounts for transactions may mean Karlie didnt want to be found for other reasons. How was Karlie eating?
Not to mention Karlies ex-boyfirend slit his wifes throat.

I was paid in cash money for 12 months each week, but I still had to do a tax return reporting my earnings.

BBM

Karlies mum put in a missing persons report and withdrew it days later as she had evidently had contact with Karlie and believed both were safe and well in another state....late in 2009.
But police believe Karlie was probably murdered in late 2008.
I am not grasping why family/friends did not raise further concerns with the police in the years following.
No criticism of family intended ... I am just sad and perplexed that a mother and her young daughter can be unaccounted for years and not one person put in a welfare/missing person report to the police in any state of Australia.
imo

 

[Preye]

The small stone piles are found everywhere along Australian highways.
The are used to make points where tracks intersect.
When hundreds of kilometres of the roadside all looks much the same, people erect these stone piles to mark the point where a crossing or access track is. That way it is easy to identify.
That particular rock pile marks where the access track is that leads south over the railway line.

So someone put them there after 2010 and 100 metres either side of the body? Nah, thats more than just a coincidence IMO.

 

[reasypeasy]

To be honest with you, I see cash paid quite a bit. I don't think there is any law that says you cant be paid in cash. Some people are still given cash as wages.

Cash was very normal for low-paid employees of small business 30 years ago, only the big employers or tech sort of employers or employers of the highly paid had bank transfers. Work at a small pub or hotel? Cash. Work in a small shop? Cash. It was all mostly above board though, the cash went in a pay envelope that had all the pay calculations (including what was taken out in tax) written on it. If someone was being paid outside the system we said they were being paid "cash under the table" Now that most people are paid by bank transfer we tend to have abbreviated that phrase to "being paid cash" but I'm sure there are still people being paid cash in a legit manner. Government wouldn't dare make it illegal, all it takes is one employer whining they will have to quit employing people because of the cost of getting a computer and it would be a public relations nightmare.

 

[sosocurious]

Police are confident that those responsible for the murders are not from Ms Pearce-Stevenson's home town of Alice Springs. She is more likely to have met or befriended the killer or killers while travelling between 2006 and 2010, police say.

"There is every indication that friends or associates &#8211; people Karlie may have met or been in contact with while travelling between 2006 and 2010 &#8211; hold the key to their deaths," Superintendent Willing said.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/girl-in-s...khandalyce-20151023-gkhbr0.html#ixzz3pdfnn8Am

Police are trying to find the car the pair were travelling in when they disappeared, with phone records and bank records being checked since their bodies were identified.

NT Police Assistant Commissioner Jamie Chalker provided further information on the report.
&#8220;It is known that Karlie&#8217;s mother raised a missing persons report on 4 September, 2009, in Alice Springs and normal initial investigation inquiries at that time indicated signs of active life,&#8221; he said.
&#8220;It was understood that Karlie had travelled interstate with her daughter and that family contact had been intermittent.
&#8220;The investigation was subsequently filed on 10 September, 2009, after Karlie&#8217;s mum withdrew her concern as she advised that she had received contact from Karlie, that she was safe and did not want further contact.&#8221;
Ms Pearce-Stevenson&#8217;s mother, Colleen Povey, died in 2012. It is understood her family believed Ms Pearce-Stevenson was still alive but estranged.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...spect-identified/story-fns0kb1g-1227579349590

In 2009 normal investigation inquiries indicated signs of life.
What would those normal inquiries be?

I am wondering if Karlie met someone between 2006 and 2008 a visitor to the Northern Territory maybe or someone needing to get out of the Territory.
There were records
Licence - pulled over by police Cobber Pedy 2008,
Registration - Presumably car in her name.
Medicare - immunisation abt 2008
and possibly centerlink that continued until 2010 when she was discovered deceased.
imo

 

[crabstick]

Soso underlined bank records and phone records. That means bank records exist?
The ring on Karlies engagement finger in the Adelaide shopping centre is not an engagement ring or friendship ring?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Police are confident that those responsible for the murders are not from Ms Pearce-Stevenson's home town of Alice Springs. She is more likely to have met or befriended the killer or killers while travelling between 2006 and 2010, police say.

"There is every indication that friends or associates – people Karlie may have met or been in contact with while travelling between 2006 and 2010 – hold the key to their deaths," Superintendent Willing said.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/girl-in-s...khandalyce-20151023-gkhbr0.html#ixzz3pdfnn8Am

Police are trying to find the car the pair were travelling in when they disappeared, with phone records and bank records being checked since their bodies were identified.

NT Police Assistant Commissioner Jamie Chalker provided further information on the report.
“It is known that Karlie’s mother raised a missing persons report on 4 September, 2009, in Alice Springs and normal initial investigation inquiries at that time indicated signs of active life,” he said.
“It was understood that Karlie had travelled interstate with her daughter and that family contact had been intermittent.
“The investigation was subsequently filed on 10 September, 2009, after Karlie’s mum withdrew her concern as she advised that she had received contact from Karlie, that she was safe and did not want further contact.”
Ms Pearce-Stevenson’s mother, Colleen Povey, died in 2012. It is understood her family believed Ms Pearce-Stevenson was still alive but estranged.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...spect-identified/story-fns0kb1g-1227579349590

In 2009 normal investigation inquiries indicated signs of life.
What would those normal inquiries be?

I am wondering if Karlie met someone between 2006 and 2008 a visitor to the Northern Territory maybe or someone needing to get out of the Territory.
There were records
Licence - pulled over by police Cobber Pedy 2008,
Registration - Presumably car in her name.
Medicare - immunisation abt 2008
and possibly centerlink that continued until 2010 when she was discovered deceased.
imo

Bold part .. That means police are the ones that told Karlie's family that she was alive, they're likely not going to want to admit it, but that missing persons report was not adequately followed up on.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

Just re the possibility of an engagement ring, keep in mind it wouldn't be unusual for a young single woman to wear one to give the impression she had regular male company/ward off unwanted approaches - I did it myself in my early 20s.

 

[Panda]

It would be interesting to know exactly where her body was found, as you can see from this map when you first enter the forest from the Hume Highway you enter a series of fire trails which are quite well used (lots of orientation markers, and clear signs of human activity etc).

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-34.5238002,150.2288337,15z

However, west of the entry the forest becomes a lot more remote, I believe it was in this second area that Milat killed and dumped his victims, it would be interesting to know if it was the same with Karlie's killer.

Her body was found just off Dalys Water Hole. It's a camping area - and is where that young Milat twat killed that young bloke in the same year as Karlie was found, (if I remember correctly). Her body wasn't near the area where the older Milat killer the backpackers, from memory again, I think it was in a different part of the forest.

 

[crabstick]

Yet my quote says Karlies mother got through to Karlie in Adelaide on her mobile and Karlies mother pulled the missing persons lodgement.
Police agreed Karlies mothers word was enough.
Artistic licence by journos?

Maybe in future, if a child goes off the system within 6 months they are automatically lodged as missing person by computer default?
For the protection of the child? Adults are different under civil liberties.
Maybe an unsighted child police database?

Bold part .. That means police are the ones that told Karlie's family that she was alive, they're likely not going to want to admit it, but that missing persons report was not adequately followed up on.

 

[ozsleuth]

There are many fascinating and baffling aspects to this case, but the main thing I cant wrap my head around as why the suitcase was placed on the side of a busy highway in full view of passing traffic

How hard would it have been to drive into a forest and bury it, likely never to be found? Seems very very odd

 

[Theodora]

These two early reports about the discovery of Karlie are interesting in terms of description of the location

The remains were found right beside a fire trail whereas Milat buried his victims away from fire trails
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/belanglo-bones-dont-fit-milat-profile-clive-small-20100830-140sr.html

9 bike riders discovered Karlie's remains. "Andrew said he and his friends had driven on that trail numerous times and it was only when they did a U-turn in the bush that they came across the remains. He said a recent fire in the area might have uncovered the remains. ... "Everything was tucked away behind a log." ...He said there also appeared to be clothing with the bones. ... [Police] said the bones were spread out over a small area that police would continue to search for a number of days.



http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/human-sku...trail-biker-20100829-13xrq.html#ixzz3pdy6Rn1w

 

[calgaltx]

I knew this tid-bit would come in handy one day. There is a saying that "2 stones do not make a duck". Because 1 stone can be on top of another by a casual placement or by the movement of earth, a " duck" must be 3 or more rocks balanced on top of one another = a "duck". Ducks are used for a variety of information while hiking, such as "yes, you are hiking on the right path", or "I want to remember the way we traveled", or "water is this way". This may not help with this case, it might help in another.

 

[fruity]

Well, the car seat you can't give to Vinnies, they won't take them.
You have to leave it out for council pick-up (if you have those in your council area) or take them to the tip (they take up a lot of space in a wheelie bin).

The stroller and clothes you could just drop off to Vinnies if they were still good. Disposal: Umbrella strollers fit into a bin easily; bigger pram-style ones go out to council pick-up (like the seat; if you don't have roadside hard rubbish collections you'd have to go to the tip yourself).

Storing the clothes is a bit weird tbh. It would be very easy to chuck a bag of clothes into a Vinnies bin somewhere.

I honestly have no idea, but were they still taking them in 2008? My kids were out if their seats well before then.

 

[fruity]

Showing your age Makara. I remember this too. Lol

When I was born my mum recalled getting like the equivalent of 20c a month or fortnight. When I was in primary school 20c would buy me a heap of lollies at the milk bar Freckles and milk bottles were my favourite

I remember going to the corner shop for a 20c paddle pop! And 10c could get you an entire bag of chalk stick lollies.

 

[fruity]

100%, Rayemonde. It certainly looks like the work of someone who gets a perverse thrill out of these things, at all points along the line, including, as you mention, the almost wanting to get caught.

This is not work of an angry or jealous boyfriend, or a colleague or other associate with whom one has a falling-out. It's too terrible at all levels for that.

Psychopaths always have a very serious criminal history - you don't suddenly do something as heinous as this with only petty crimes behind you - so the comments police have made about a serial killer are sadly just common sense at this point.

I too am a bit confused about the theory that more than one perpetrator is involved. Could this simply mean that perhaps a criminal accomplice assisted in dealing with the possessions and remains while the perp was in jail, for example? On the other hand there do seem to be criminally psychopathic families, such as the Milats and the father-son duo in the news recently.

BBM

My musings only.

I wonder if the police are classing the killer and the person who dumped the suitcase for the killer (since the killer is likely in prison) as 'those responsible'?

I'm thinking of Vincent and Marcus Stanford. One of them killed Stephanie Scott and the other disposed of her belongings for his brother. But they're both being charged - one with murder, one as being an accessory after the fact. Trying to help a murderer is a crime in itself ... but I don't know if it would lead to police saying you are 'responsible'?

 

[fruity]

The actual payments aren't relevant, but where and when they were being accessed from her bank account would be of interest and help to the police. IMO. And when they stopped.

I remember reading in early MSM reports that she didn't have a bank account. That could definitely have an impact on the case. I don't know if it is true though. Things have changed in MSM over the past few days with more being released in a slow trickle.

 

[sosocurious]

Karlie continued to play netball and was in a 2008 C-grade side.

A teammate said she was a &#8220;cute little girl who played hard&#8221;.

&#8220;The one day she went walkabout and we heard that she did not want to be contacted,&#8221; she said.

A former family friend said Karlie struggled after having Khandalye.

&#8220;After the baby things went downhill. Unfortunately things happen with families,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;She grew up with my daughter and lived in the area so I knew her reasonably well. Alice Springs is the type of town you know most of the kids.&#8221;

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...576899664?sv=13a84b51628f29dd82cc5c608197d086

Karlie was playing netball in 2008 in Alice Springs according to this article.

 

[Rayemonde]

Sorry if I'm annoying you guys with this again. But I just keep feeling so strongly about this.

http://www.missingpersons.gov.au/missing-persons/profiles/profiles/b/r/brown melissa - sa

Circumstances
Rosemary Brown, aged 33 years, along with her daughter Melissa Brown (also known as Melissa Trussell), aged 15 years, and Rosemary’s son, were residents of the Windsor Gardens Caravan Park. On 3 May 2000 they were evicted due to unpaid rent and complaints of youths loitering around their caravan. They moved from their caravan into the caravan of another park resident, Mark Nicholls, at his invitation.

Three days later, on 7 May 2000, all four were evicted from the caravan park and slept at the Garden Island boat ramp in Mr Nicholls’ caravan. The following day, Rosemary arranged for them to stay in the yard of a friend’s home in Blair Athol in Mr Nicholl’s caravan.

Mr Nicholls was the last to see Rosemary and Melissa, at about 1.30 a.m. on Saturday 13 May 2000, when they left the caravan on foot to find Rosemary’s son.
Rosemary’s handbag was discovered later that day in Stirling Street, Northfield, although it was not handed to police until 23 May 2000 following a media appeal in relation to the missing women.

On Sunday 2 July 2000, Rosemary’s body was discovered in the mangroves at Garden Island.

Melissa has never been found and is suspected to have been murdered.

[video=youtube;yqWHjUV5JrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqWHjUV5JrI[/video]


They fit the same profile. A vulnerable mother and young daughter living at caravan parks/homeless in/around Adelaide.

Mother found murdered. But without the daughter.

Good find. I can't find a thread on here about them?

 

[Eloise]

I honestly have no idea, but were they still taking them in 2008? My kids were out if their seats well before then.

I doubt it. It's a CYA thing - seats that have been in accidents often don't look like they've been in accidents (and people aren't always honest about things) - but if they've been in an accident they're no longer safe. I think that's been a rule since the early-mid 2000s at least (when I started having babies)