AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #6

[Wolfinator]

IMO the stomping on may have be an attempt to conceal Karlie's visual identity, her killer would have had no idea of how long it would be before she was found. DNA id probably did not entered her alleged murder's mind, let's face it, he is a numpty of the highest order, he was still carrying around her ATM card 4-5 years later!

It's possible if it was a bit of a rush job.

I'm opting for the numpty just being a drug fuelled psychotic violent whack job on a bender.


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[Bohemian]

IMO the stomping on may have be an attempt to conceal Karlie's visual identity, her killer would have had no idea of how long it would be before she was found. DNA id probably did not entered her alleged murder's mind, let's face it, he is a numpty of the highest order, he was still carrying around her ATM card 4-5 years later!

Could be, Bundy. Wouldn't you use a handy branch or stone if you're in the bush, rather than your runners though?

I agree, someone probably wouldn't have known much about DNA at that stage, unless they were a CSI fan. People can be intelligent enough to be mostly successful manipulators but still have **** *** commonsense.

 

[Bohemian]

It's possible if it was a bit of a rush job.

I'm opting for the numpty just being a drug fuelled psychotic violent whack job on a bender.


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Yes, Wolfie, a crime of passion. Impulsive, violent, brutal. Not passion as in the romantic kind.

 

[Theodora]

$20000 is 100 ounces of dope, which wont fit in a nappy bag
Im not up to speed on pricing of dope, but 2 kilos would be quite bulky. Maybe about a suitcase. Maybe they bought a kilo of cabbage and a pack of Whizzfizz?
We are speculating that was what the suitcase was for. Speculation is the cases were ditched before the drug dogs.
I was speculating it was bought in MT Gambier, near the border which is why the purchase was made down there

Were all the suitcases found along the highways Murray, Lanza suitcases? Now we know Wynarka was not the only path.
Did someone have a Lanza fetish?

This photo relates to the marijuana found on Schapelle Corby's boogie board, which was 4.2kg, so 2kg would look about half this size
http://moseffreport.com/2014/02/10/...-prison-now-i-can-finally-go-boogie-boarding/

This all assumes that if a drug was involved in this case, it was cannabis and in the form of leaves and heads, not the more concentrated hashish, or some other drug like Ice.

 

[visioneye]

Last night I watched a new release film "True Story"(new to foxtel), and the opening scene nearly floored me. A two year old girl killed and put into a suitcase (with her belongings) and dumped where she would be found (in a marina in this story). This movie release (in the US) in January 2015 and is based on the the book by Michael Finkle of the murderer Christian Longo.
Not going into the details of this murder as I believe they are irrelevant but if interested.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rged-in-murders-of-wife-children-Newport-2001

The point of my post is to highlight other characteristics that I believe are similar in these cases.

The movie primarily looks into the relationship between the murderer Christian and the journalist Michael Finkel, and without giving away the story completely (because it is worth a view) it is about the murderers need to be notorious/famous. And on researching Christian, he seemed to have the need to be (and continues to be) notorious/famous.

FWIT I think the person who put Kandals body into the suitcase with her belongings, and left it somewhere where they would be unlikely to be seen dumping it, but that it would be found, wanted this case to be notorious.
I wouldn't rule out the timing of the release of this film in early 2015, as more than coincidence..... the opening sequence blew me away.
The person I think who has left that case is a brazen, attention seeking and a proficient liar. A history (like Christian) of deception and fraud. Not sure if they are the murderer in the situation (if it is it would have to be very personal like Christian). And they will come unstuck because they think they are too clever (again like Christian).
They will get good silk to represent them (even if they cannot pay, and it will work because the case is high profile) and will talk to a select member of the media.. just like Christian did with Michael.
All MOO

 

[JaneSA]

I sincerely doubt this was a crime of passion.

As DCI Bray said "we followed the money".

I agree.
Crime of passion has moved to the very bottom of my list of motives.
Retribution for getting cold feet about the job, wanting out, not being able to get out, and eventually trying to run off with someone's money is at the top.

I also think that there are a great many people who knew about the murder of Karlie as I expect it was used as a warning too.
Whether or not any of those people will choose to talk to the police is debatable.

While there is a person charged with the murder, much as we might like to think he is guilty, there's always the chance he was sophisticatedly set up as an obvious person to take responsibiliy if the corpse was ever identified.

My own opinion is that the scope of this investigation is much, much bigger than we can see at this point.

BTW it may also explain why such a high profile SC was so quick to get involved on behalf of HP.

 

[Oona]

Whether or not this case was drug related, it is worth considering the murderer's motives. Why was Karlie killed?
To me, the killing occurring in Belanglo is not consistent with an out of control domestic violence killing but rather suggests premeditation.
It is awful to contemplate, but was Karlie tortured or beaten for information about missing money prior to her murder? Was her murder (and possibly Khandalyce's) punishment?
I am inclined to think there are more people involved than we know about.

 

[Bundy]

It's possible if it was a bit of a rush job.

I'm opting for the numpty just being a drug fuelled psychotic violent whack job on a bender.


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Yeah, that too Wolf.

 

[Bundy]

Thinking about it, I doubt whether the alleged drug money was a motive for her murder because Karlie and DH were probably working as a team. If we follow the trail of the ATM card, which we presume DH was using, there was a quick turn around in ACT, down to Adelaide, a stop over in Adelaide over Christmas, a quick trip to Alice with an over-nighter, then back to Adelaide..... He was probably just finishing the job they started together.

 

[crabstick]

I'm going with A, B, C & D multiple present. And reversed over on the way out

It's possible if it was a bit of a rush job.
I'm opting for the numpty just being a drug fuelled psychotic violent whack job on a bender

 

[BlueBayou]

Whether or not this case was drug related, it is worth considering the murderer's motives. Why was Karlie killed?
To me, the killing occurring in Belanglo is not consistent with an out of control domestic violence killing but rather suggests premeditation.
It is awful to contemplate, but was Karlie tortured or beaten for information about missing money prior to her murder? Was her murder (and possibly Khandalyce's) punishment?
I am inclined to think there are more people involved than we know about.

Have the police stated that Karlie was killed in the Belanglo? My thoughts is she may have been killed elsewhere.

 

[Makara]

Have the police stated that Karlie was killed in the Belanglo? My thoughts is she may have been killed elsewhere.

Karlie Pearce-Stevenson murdered in Belanglo State Forest: police

7:00pm October 23, 2015

Karlie Pearce-Stevenson was likely violently murdered in or around Belanglo State Forest, with detectives hopeful of making an arrest after turning up more evidence in house searches in South Australia and ACT.

Investigators believe they've spoken to people with "actual knowledge" of what happened to Karlie and her daughter Khandalyce Kiara Pearce and believe multiple people may have been involved.

Police are almost certain the young Alice Springs mum, was killed in NSW and put her time of death around December 2008, nearly two years before her remains were found.

But where and when Khandalyce died and how her remains came to be found near a suitcase alongside a South Australian highway 1200km away and five years later is still a mystery.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...n-girl-mum-murder-reports#sczb5tKSXsGPySRB.99

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think Karlie and DH were working as a team too, him 'offing' her allowed him to release himself of the burden. I think Khandalyce died for the same reason. Once they were both gone he could resume his life, say Karlie ran off and he's got no idea where she is either, and put all the blame on her and claim he knows nothing. JMO

 

[JaneSA]

Maybe we should consider the psychology of people involved in drug manufacture, transportation and selling.
Can I share my thoughts with you and see what you think?

My first thought is that these people treat the police as their natural enemies. So even if they are horrified by a crime such as the murder of a toddler, going to the police is not an option they would ever consider.
I think we can assume most are, at minimum, casual drug users, but more often people with a heavy habit who kid themselves that they have it under control.
I think those at the top of the hierarchy avoid drug use themselves, but find it a necessity for keeping their operators in line.
I think we can also assume that, within that society, people are rewarded with drugs and punished with violence, or the fear of violence.

Poor Karlie probably wanted to get out. In itself a rare thing and something she should be honoured for.
I imagine that when she was pulled over on the Stuart highway in the preceding month it hit home that if she was caught with commercial quantities of drugs she would go to jail and lose the custody of her daughter.

But (and again, I am just using my imagination) you don't just quit a role where you know the manufacturers and the sellers.
So I imagine pressure was put on her in Alice Springs to continue and she was too scared not to.

I keep looking at that photo of her in Marion and to me she looks exhausted and terrified.
I think this may be the point where she decided that with $25k in her possession she might be able to "disappear" with her daughter.

We don't know who she met at Marion or why she let them photograph her and her daughter, but perhaps it was a trusted family member or friend who encouraged her to flee.
Perhaps the photos were taken to create a false trail later.
Perhaps (ok, it's a lot of perhapses) the idea was that once Karlie was well away the photographer would post something on social media to the effect of "ran into Karlie at Marion today" giving the impression she was still in SA.

The thing about that photo is that it is not a happy, flattering shot of a friend meeting for lunch or a shopping trip.
It has the hallmarks of a mug-shot; something used to identify a person.

So, if it wasn't taken by a trusted friend in order to create a false trail later, was it taken by someone literally as an identity shot?
Was it taken as a form of insurance along the lines of "we have hundreds of people all over the country who we can show this to - you won't be able to run"?

I don't know why the photo was taken, but I do know that despite being unflattering, it was kept for 7 years, and I wonder why.
Personally, I delete the photos that aren't worth keeping over time.
These were worth keeping - by someone.

So from Marion she heads off to Mt Gambier. Was she hoping to see someone there who she could stay with? Did they say no because it was too dangerous for them and their own family?
There must be some significant reason for the Mt Gambier trip.

Next stop is Canberra. She knows people there too. Is she again seeking refuge?
If so, she tragically miscalculated as someone tells someone else that she is there.

Did she travel to Canberra to see DH in the hope he could help her only to find him even more addled than the last time she saw him?

Did the person wanting their $25k back catch up with her in Canberra, get the money, take Khandalyce in order to force Karlie's compliance, get control of her banking details, then kill her while framing DH for the crime? Is that another possible scenario that would explain why DH is refusing to speak to the police?
Could they also have forced DH to use public ATMs to access Kalie's account so that he would be photographed doing so?

All speculation, all my own thoughts, but based on some of the facts we know.

 

[crabstick]

Heres a reminder

I sincerely doubt this was a crime of passion.
As DCI Bray said "we followed the money".

Thinking about it, I doubt whether the alleged drug money was a motive for her murder because Karlie and DH were probably working as a team. If we follow the trail of the ATM card, which we presume DH was using, there was a quick turn around in ACT, down to Adelaide, a stop over in Adelaide over Christmas, a quick trip to Alice with an over-nighter, then back to Adelaide..... He was probably just finishing the job they started together.

 

[symbah]

Thinking about it, I doubt whether the alleged drug money was a motive for her murder because Karlie and DH were probably working as a team. If we follow the trail of the ATM card, which we presume DH was using, there was a quick turn around in ACT, down to Adelaide, a stop over in Adelaide over Christmas, a quick trip to Alice with an over-nighter, then back to Adelaide..... He was probably just finishing the job they started together.

However, it doesn't seem to of been that quick of a turnaround in the ACT.

Karlie's card, at least, was in the ACT for almost a month. It was used Nov 24, Dec 16 & Dec 19 before next being used in Adelaide Dec 22.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-27/timeline-karlie-pearce-stevenson-bank-account-activity/6890008

 

[sosocurious]

Have the police stated that Karlie was killed in the Belanglo? My thoughts is she may have been killed elsewhere.

Key points:

Police believe Karlie was killed in or near Belanglo State Forest in NSW
Police search homes in SA and ACT
Searches 'extremely productive'
Police talking to inmates with 'knowledge'
Search for red or maroon station wagon begin

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-23/police-search-homes-in-sa-canberra-mother-daughter/6879814

 

[Makara]

Yes, I agree JaneSA. Karlie does look frightened and tired in the photo taken at Marion. IMO she was frightened of the person behind the camera. So who took that photo? It's my understanding that it was HP who took that photo in November 2008.

From the articles I've quoted below 1276th and 1271th calls to Crimestoppers opened the case for investigators. The police state that from the information they received from these two calls they were then able to locate and identify a witness who took the photo of Karlie and Khandalyce at Marion in November 2008. That person did not come forward willingly. IMO that person was HP. Police would have confirmed that HP was in hospital in December 2008 when it's believed Karlie was murdered but IMO HP wasn't in hospital in November 2008.

The significant development that lead to both females being identified began on October 8 when a call to Crime Stoppers nominated Khandalyce as possibly being the little girl in the suitcase.
The caller had not seen Khandalyce or Ms Pearce-Stevenson for some time and believed they were missing.
Investigators then located a witness who had seen Khandalyce and her mother at Marion Shopping Centre in Adelaide in November 2008.
She had taken photos of Khandalyce wearing a pink dress. That dress is identical to that found with the remains in the suitcase.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ious-Belanglo-State-Forest.html#ixzz3qy7OYve8

"The 1,267th caller was the person who initiated the breakthrough and then a couple of days later another person [provided information], and then that enabled us to do investigations which sort of opened it up further," Detective Superintendent Bray said.

The first call, on October 8, "nominated Khandalyce as possibly being the little girl in the suitcase".

"The initial caller identified that Karlie and Khandalyce had been missing since about 2009, although at the time of the call there wasn't a missing person report in existence," Detective Superintendent Bray said.

He said the "caller advised us that Karlie and Khandalyce had been reported missing in 2009" but it was shelved a week later after Northern Territory Police were reassured by Karlie's mother, who has since passed away, that the pair were safe.

Detective Superintendent Bray said the 1,271st caller provided a photograph showing Khandalyce in a stroller with the quilt tucked behind her head.

"I can tell you that the quilt was made by Khandalyce's grandmother, who had died before they had been located," he said.

"As a result of that information we were able to identify another person who had been closely associated with Karlie, and that person provided information in relation to meeting with her in November 2008 at Marion and provided a photograph to us."

He said that photograph "again showed Khandalyce and it showed her wearing the pink dress".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...ed-breakthrough-in-suitcase-girl-case/6873196

BBM. UBM:

 

[JaneSA]

Thanks for putting that together, Makara.

So Person 1 thinks the child might be Khandles, but also knows about the 2009 missing person report.

Person 2 offers the photo of baby Khandles with the quilt.

Person 3 is identified by the police and has the Marion photos.

My assumption then, is that Persons 1 &2 are family or family friends and that they suggested the police contact Person 3, who they think may know more.

Interesting idea about HP being the person with the Marion photos.
If so, just like the photos from the car show on her FB page, I wonder why she kept them if she was guilty of any involvement?

 

[Meryl12]

JaneSA I agree with your opinion of people involved in drug manufacture, transportation and selling.
I also totally agree that poor Karlie wanted to get out.
I agree that she could see the consequences of her actions would be losing custody of her daughter.
Unfortunately poor Karlie did not have a supportive family she could turn to for help.
My feeling is that Karlie probably turned to the wrong person for help.
We don't know who - or what happened but her fate was horrific.
That photo of Karlie in Marion - she does look terrified and exhausted, very much so.
Perhaps whoever she turned to for help was probably just another opportunist.
Her situation certainly went from bad to worse - ultimately her death.
I think her long drives with her daughter gave Karlie plenty of time to reflect on her responsibility for Khandalyce. Karlie's responsibility as a mother - her maternal instinct - made her decide to get out and make a life for Khandalyce. Being pulled over on the Stuart Highway would have been the thing that made her want out.
Only poor Karlie had no-one safe to turn to.