AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[JaneSA]

I really wish we knew why the police are so certain that Karlie was killed between December 14 and 15, 2008. I wonder what evidence they have that convinces them of that specific time period?

 

[DutchTreat]

I really wish we knew why the police are so certain that Karlie was killed between December 14 and 15, 2008. I wonder what evidence they have that convinces them of that specific time period?

The only thing I can think of is that they know Khandalyce hasn't been to Canberra. But that still wouldn't prove her being alive longer than Karlie.

 

[JaneSA]

The only thing I can think of is that they know Khandalyce hasn't been to Canberra. But that still wouldn't prove her being alive longer than Karlie.

Yes, I have wondered about that too.

Those 2 suitcases of Karlie's belongings found at DH's sister's house are interesting because it seems that by the time she got to Canberra her belongings and her daughters were separated into different suitcases.

I am still wondering if Khandalyce was left with someone in the Mt Gambier area and if that explains the side trip there, which is so far out of her way if Karlie's destination was Canberra.

 

[JaneSA]

Another thing I just noticed about the transaction history is that prior to her murder there are no apparent fuel purchases on KP's card, yet after her murder there are service station transactions at mobile, BP and OTR.
Not sure if that has any significance though and the list of transactions is too small to say it is really a change of pattern, but it seems to be.

 

[Karo]

Didn't we read that there was a confirmed sighting of both in Canberra? and that the phones of both Karlie and DH were tracked to be at Belanglo at the same time, on the night of Dec 14/15?

I really wish we knew why the police are so certain that Karlie was killed between December 14 and 15, 2008. I wonder what evidence they have that convinces them of that specific time period?

 

[Wolfinator]

Yes, I have wondered about that too.

Those 2 suitcases of Karlie's belongings found at DH's sister's house are interesting because it seems that by the time she got to Canberra her belongings and her daughters were separated into different suitcases.

I am still wondering if Khandalyce was left with someone in the Mt Gambier area and if that explains the side trip there, which is so far out of her way if Karlie's destination was Canberra.

What makes you think her belongings were sorted into two suitcases before she got to Canberra? Seems like a bit of tail chasing going on.


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[Karo]

I don't think Karlie would have left her child with anyone as is it seems she was insistent on taking her with her, despite family pleas to leave her behind when she left to go travelling.

What makes you think her belongings were sorted into two suitcases before she got to Canberra? Seems like a bit of tail chasing going on.


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[Trooper]

It might just be me not being a native English speaker. But to me it sounds like that you are convinced that DH for a fact was the person that used Karlie's bank card right after her death and then travelled back to Adelaide,
You can't know that for sure.
If police are saying that there was at least one man and two women involved in the identity fraud, you don't know who did which transaction.

However, police know that a man and at least two women have been responsible for the financial transactions and have lived at, or been associated with, homes in Davoren Park, Hillbank, Holden Hill and Charnwood, Canberra.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-pol...l-service-area/task-force-mallee#.VlnpNXYvdki

Who was driving, where was Khandalyce at the time?
How and when did DH get to Canberra? With whom? With Karlie? In another vehicle?
Was he driving? Wasn't he driving? Was he allowed to drive? If he wasn't, did he stick to it? Who was using karlie's bank card? A man or a woman? WHEN did DH return to Adelaide? In which vehicle? Where was Karlie's car? If Karlie's car was left in Canberra (I don't know if it actually was), there must have been another car to return to Canberra. And on and on.

Your story sounds like it must have been DH doing all these things. Only thing you're not sure of is wether there was a second driver, he did or he didn't hire a car and if Khandyce was with DH or not.

I don't think you can know all that.

But to me it sounds like that you are convinced that DH for a fact was the person that used Karlie's bank card right after her death and then travelled back to Adelaide. yes... I am convinced of that.. I do think it was DH who used Karlie's card 2 days after he murdered her.. and I am convinced it was Holdom who travelled then back to Adelaide, using Karlie's keycard, and stayed around Broadview for Xmas and zapped up to Alice for 7 hours at the cost of fuel of $650 and back again and then across Au to Canberra.



You can't know that for sure.
If police are saying that there was at least one man and two women involved in the identity fraud, you don't know who did which transaction. No one knows for sure until the trial, but that doesn't stop me from being convinced, the same as it doesn't stop you from being unconvinced. One thing we all know, is, ..while it was probably Holdom who used that card straight after the murder, it is reasonable to be convinced it wasn't Holdom who , arrayed in a dress and with one leg missing and in a wheelchair fraudulently portrayed herself as Karlie to Centrelink. I am truly convinced of that. I do think that was a woman. Same as I think it was a woman who fronted the bank to change the details. I don't think that was Holdom. I am firmly convinced that it wasn't Holdom who rang Karlie's mum, Colleen. I am deeply and imperviously convinced that call was made by a woman. I can honestly say, I do know that for sure.

Who was driving, where was Khandalyce at the time?
How and when did DH get to Canberra? With whom? With Karlie? In another vehicle?
Was he driving? Wasn't he driving? Was he allowed to drive? If he wasn't, did he stick to it? Who was using karlie's bank card? A man or a woman? WHEN did DH return to Adelaide? In which vehicle? Where was Karlie's car? If Karlie's car was left in Canberra (I don't know if it actually was), there must have been another car to return to Canberra. And on and on.

I ask those questions myself, if you read my post.. . I maintain it was Holdom who does the driving on the trip straight after the murder.. I toy with the idea of perhaps another driver ,and of Khandalyce being with him,.. both of those propositions seem unlikely, highly unlikely, but not impossible. And on and on. I cant follow all your questions there., .

 

[Trooper]

Didn't we read that there was a confirmed sighting of both in Canberra? and that the phones of both Karlie and DH were tracked to be at Belanglo at the same time, on the night of Dec 14/15?

Yes, the police confirmed that sighting.. I think in Charnwood. .. . it is reasonable to assume , since there is nothing to the contrary. If, say, the suitcase is tracked along with Khandalyce.. it's fair to say , that Karlie bought the suitcase in Mt Gambier. that is confirmed, then, according to transactions, Karlie, Khandalyce, the key card, and one assumes, the suitcase are in Canberra.

From then on, Khandalyce and the suitcase are out of sight. The keycard remains in circulation, busy as all hell, all over the country, up and down the Stuart Highway and round the Princes highway, in quick time, but it is also reasonable to propose that the keycard, and Holdom driving and using the keycard passed Wynarka at least twice on that particular trip, both going and coming back. Not that the suitcase was thrown out on the road, then, but it is possible it was stored in Wynarka for years from that time.

 

[JLZ]

If someone lost their licence because of a criminal driving offence, perhaps in some circumstances the prohibition on driving wouldn't start until after the court case? And that could be months later?

 

[JLZ]

I don't think Karlie would have left her child with anyone as is it seems she was insistent on taking her with her, despite family pleas to leave her behind when she left to go travelling.

I can imagine that Karlie might have perceived the family as a particular threat to her custody of Khandalyce. If she thought they were telling her she was an inadequate mother, Karlie may also have thought that once they had Khandalyce in their care they'd take legal steps to resist giving her up. Whereas leaving Khandalyce with a more casual friend may have left Karlie feeling more in control. She might not have liked doing it but was willing to submit to the necessity.

 

[Trooper]

In the month before she was murdered, the November, 2008.. Karlie, at least, her keycard, and since she was still alive at that time, it is reasonable to assume it was Karlie, went to Alice Springs.. it was a quick trip, but apparently she didn't contact her family .. she is still absent to them..( sad to think she was dead a month later and would never contact them ) and one has to query if the whole yarn about the 'bounty ' on her head of $5000 (promoted by the Carer of Connie, the Granma ) isn't a bit off, a bit of a wild story because why would she roll up into Alice if there was any chance of a bounty on her head? Alice is a small town, anyone with that kind of money sitting on their head would be spotted 20 klms away from the McDonnell Ranges.

 

[Trooper]

Although.. it wouldn't be an unlikely scenario if Holdom, on his zappy trip to Alice Springs in the first week of January 2009 took the opportunity to perhaps drop this tale of a 'bounty' and the ' $25,000 stash that Karlie has absconded with'.. that would suit his purposes very well, considering his circumstances.

At this point, only he, and maybe his female accomplice , know where Karlie really is, and know without doubt, that Karlie isn't going to sashay into Alice Springs ever again.

 

[DutchTreat]

In the month before she was murdered, the November, 2008.. Karlie, at least, her keycard, and since she was still alive at that time, it is reasonable to assume it was Karlie, went to Alice Springs.. it was a quick trip, but apparently she didn't contact her family .. she is still absent to them..( sad to think she was dead a month later and would never contact them ) and one has to query if the whole yarn about the 'bounty ' on her head of $5000 (promoted by the Carer of Connie, the Granma ) isn't a bit off, a bit of a wild story because why would she roll up into Alice if there was any chance of a bounty on her head? Alice is a small town, anyone with that kind of money sitting on their head would be spotted 20 klms away from the McDonnell Ranges.

Maybe on that occasion Karlie found out about the bounty. Returns to Adelaide. Then travels to Mt. Gambier, purchases the Lanza suitcase, maybe had Khandalyce's photo's taken at Rabbit photo and handed Khandalyce, the suitcase, passport photo's, the application form and her birth certificate over to somebody else to take care of her and apply for a passport for Khandalyce?

Someone said that if Khandalyce needed a passport (to flee with Karlie) it's probable Khandalyce's father had to sign as well in order for Khandalyce to be able to obtain a passport. Maybe that's why Karlie went to Alice Springs? Then to Mt. Gambier, to hand Khandalyce to somebody who would temporarily take care of her. And fled to Canberra herself? Maybe thinking that the bounty was on her head, and that if Khandalyce was with somebody else, Khandalyce was safe.

 

[DutchTreat]

Does anyone know how applying for a child's passport would have worked in 2008?
Could Karlie have picked up an application form, get the father to sign it, signed it herself and then a third person could have been able to complete the procedure with Khandalyce, her passport photo's and her birth certificate?

Or would Karlie have to be present to complete the procedure?
And where would the application have to be done?
Could it have been done in another state? Or does it have to be done where your official residence is?

 

[Trooper]

Maybe on that occasion Karlie found out about the bounty. Returns to Adelaide. Then travels to Mt. Gambier, purchases the Lanza suitcase, maybe had Khandalyce's photo's taken at Rabbit photo and handed Khandalyce, the suitcase, passport photo's, the application form and her birth certificate over to somebody else to take care of her and apply for a passport for Khandalyce?

Someone said that if Khandalyce needed a passport (to flee with Karlie) it's probable Khandalyce's father had to sign as well in order for Khandalyce to be able to obtain a passport. Maybe that's why Karlie went to Alice Springs? Then to Mt. Gambier, to hand Khandalyce to somebody who would temporarily take care of her. And fled to Canberra herself? Maybe thinking that the bounty was on her head, and that if Khandalyce was with somebody else, Khandalyce was safe.

or there was no 'bounty' no '$25,000, no stash, no running with the cash, no third person to whom Karlie hands over not only Khandalyce, but her birth certificate and some 'passport application', and 'passport photos'.. and the suitcase, with the 'third person' ready to apply for a passport for Khandalyce.. none of this stuff at all. It is really, statistically, less likely.

It would depend on who had custody of Khandalyce.. as to whom has the deciding signature.. it appears the father had no input, either in a parently way, financial or custodial. At least , that's how it appears, according to police. . The police were very quick to absolve him of all involvement, and it seems likely that he would have mentioned signing for a passport for Khandalyce plus seeing Karlie on that trip. He didn't. It is the kind of thing you would mention, ey? The police don't even mention it. It seems to me that is the kind of thing that would be mentioned, as it has significant implications , but if it's just a fantasy, well...

For this story to stand up, this third person, who takes in stray children and obtains passports for them, and is , of course , not connected to the 'bounty hunters' or 'mr Big' who owns this mythical $25,000 , not only isn't connected but to keep Khandalyce safe , has to be actively against all this stuff, and then somehow loses track of Khandalyce, and forgets that the baby is in the suitcase? .. this ' third person' also has to be absolutely invisible, even today. Unknown to Holdom, as well, because to get out of some of his predicament, he would have to shove some of onto this 'third person' .. it is intriguing. .. in this story, the suitcase and Khandalyce only make it as far as Wynarka from Mt Gambier, yet Khandalyce is confirmed by police as being sighted in Canberra.. .. therefore Khandalyce and the suitcase intersect at Wynarka how?

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone know how applying for a child's passport would have worked in 2008?
Could Karlie have picked up an application form, get the father to sign it, signed it herself and then a third person could have been able to complete the procedure with Khandalyce, her passport photo's and her birth certificate?

Or would Karlie have to be present to complete the procedure?
And where would the application have to be done?
Could it have been done in another state? Or does it have to be done where your official residence is?

Karlie would have to be present, to complete the procedure, because Khandalyce is a minor. Her signature wouldn't be enough, although it sometimes happens but not to anyone I know who has gone thru the same procedure with their minor children. ..to do it without Karlie would require a mandatory declaration signed by a JP and a few other things as well, and one of the irritating thing about all this, is, it is highly likely it would be suggested that Khandalyce be added to Karlie's passport, considering her age, which means Karlie would have to be in possession of a passport.

it could be done at any place in Australia, it doesn't have to be done at a specific place. All applications go to a central place and are issued from the central Passport office in Canberra, so it doesn't matter where it is applied from. Official residence not withstanding. Ditto visa's , etc.

 

[Makara]

Didn't we read that there was a confirmed sighting of both in Canberra? and that the phones of both Karlie and DH were tracked to be at Belanglo at the same time, on the night of Dec 14/15?

Karo it's never been reported that Karlie's phone was tracked to Belanglo, only DH's phone.

 

[sosocurious]

Maybe on that occasion Karlie found out about the bounty. Returns to Adelaide. Then travels to Mt. Gambier, purchases the Lanza suitcase, maybe had Khandalyce's photo's taken at Rabbit photo and handed Khandalyce, the suitcase, passport photo's, the application form and her birth certificate over to somebody else to take care of her and apply for a passport for Khandalyce?

Someone said that if Khandalyce needed a passport (to flee with Karlie) it's probable Khandalyce's father had to sign as well in order for Khandalyce to be able to obtain a passport. Maybe that's why Karlie went to Alice Springs? Then to Mt. Gambier, to hand Khandalyce to somebody who would temporarily take care of her. And fled to Canberra herself? Maybe thinking that the bounty was on her head, and that if Khandalyce was with somebody else, Khandalyce was safe.

The informant in his media interview said Karlie returned to Alice briefly while on the run.
So presumably that was the Nov trip.

http://www.pressreader.com/australia/nt-news/20151107/282196534832497/TextView

 

[DutchTreat]

Police believe that at least one of those involved in the phone and bank scam was also responsible for the murders.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-pol...l-service-area/task-force-mallee#.VlpjrXYvdki

Well that's interesting. Official police statement.