AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #9

[JaneSA]

There is a Cashcard ATM at 2 Nth Terrace, which comes up on Google search as a Kent Town ATM. It looks not very far from the Royal Adelaide Hospital on the map.

That's the Royal Hotel. Sorry, I accidentally referred to it as the Hackney in my post.

 

[JaneSA]

The fact that no transaction was made at Marion bothers me too, VE. The only confirmation Karlie and Khandalyce were ever there are the two photographs. Do you know when in November 2008 they were said to have been taken?

Investigators initially said the last reported sighting of Karlie and Khandalyce was in Coober Pedy on 8/11/2008 according to a police report IIRC; which would be consistent with them travelling to The Alice from Port Augusta (card transactions on 3 and 9/11 respectively); correct?

Then Karlie's transaction history shows she was in Kent Town (14/11), then Mount Gambier (17/11) and Kippax Fair ACT (24/11) where she supposedly made a final transaction before she was allegedly murdered, or her remains were dumped, in Belanglo State Forest between 14-15/12/2008).

Recently, investigators have said the last reported sighting of Karlie and Khandalyce was in Charnwood ACT IIRC. Do you know the date of this reported sighting?

I can't help but keep coming back to the idea; no matter how unlikely it may be, that Karlie was murdered before 14-15/12/2008. Not knowing the much about dating modern skeletal remains with a relatively short PMI, I just wonder if it's possible that there is a degree of accuracy +/- x amount of time in days or weeks?

IMO.

For a long time the Canberra sighting was referred to by police as unconfirmed.
I don't know if it has ever become officially confirmed.
But with a group of people (according to police) who know about the murders, it seems to me that any or all of that group might give the police misleading information about where, when and in whose company they last saw K and K.

I'm sure forensics cannot possibly pin the time of death down to a specific date though.

I think the time of death for Karlie is being based on the phone pings from Belanglo area. That may or may not be circumstantial.

The other possible reason would be ATM pictures. If Karlie is recognisable at the last ATM transaction attributed to her in Canberra, but someone else is in the next ATM pic.
But it's a big window (22 days from memory), so exactly how they came up with a specific date is unclear.

 

[Bohemian]

There is no evidence of HP residing in Adelaide prior to her accident.
RAH is one of two hospitals which covers major trauma retrievals in the area of SA, some parts of NT (Alice Springs), western Vic, Western NSW (Broken Hill)
http://www.rah.sa.gov.au/trauma/ the other being Flinders Hospital, coincidently near Marion.
So assuming HP was "retrieved" to the RAH for treatment of her injuries, her remaining family , daughter and ?DH, would be entitled to stay at one of the subsidized public or private accommodations near the city whilst she was requiring treatment.
http://www.rah.sa.gov.au/country/accomdsn.php
A couple of these are in the Kent Town/ inner east city area walking distance to RAH, McDonalds Rundle etc.

I do not think HP was down at Marion when the infamous pictures of K & K were taken, I think she would have been still limited to city/ inner north areas at this stage of her recovery.
The person she met at Marion (may have been a close direct family member of K &K IMO), and they may have some connection to the reason Karlee went down to Mt Gambier All MO only.

Thanks for all the local info, VE.

BBM.

I agree with you about HP not being the person who took the photos at Marion. Is it possible it may have been her friend from Renmark (whose name just will not stick in my brain!)? Or, yes, a loved one who had a connection to Mount Gambier.

IMO.
____________

Sidebar: I still can't get over the finality of those photos.

 

[porridgeuk]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...-pearces-remains/story-fni6uo1m-1227577666220

Just re-reading some old bits and pieces, looking at this link, the 2 crimestopper calls helped them to identify an associate in Adelaide who had met Karlie at Marion shopping centre and taken the pics of Khandalyce

 

[JaneSA]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...-pearces-remains/story-fni6uo1m-1227577666220

Just re-reading some old bits and pieces, looking at this link, the 2 crimestopper calls helped them to identify an associate in Adelaide who had met Karlie at Marion shopping centre and taken the pics of Khandalyce

I find the existence of the Marion photos intriguing and always have.
Neither is flattering and I really wonder why they were taken, why someone kept them for so long, and why they emerged so quickly after the ID.
My personal feeling when I look at them is that they are taken and kept purely for identity and evidence... but what of I have no idea.

 

[Suziek]

Karlie may have initially stayed at Kent Town, close to the city after leaving The Alice. The trip to Marion may have been to catch up with her friend from Renmark. Her name escapes me at the moment. Also did someone post that this friend and Karlie had lived together in SA at some stage?

IMO.

kent town/norwood are expensive suburbs in Adelaide..........may pass through on way up to freeway to head out of adelaide

 

[SouthAussie]

I find the existence of the Marion photos intriguing and always have.
Neither is flattering and I really wonder why they were taken, why someone kept them for so long, and why they emerged so quickly after the ID.
My personal feeling when I look at them is that they are taken and kept purely for identity and evidence... but what of I have no idea.

I think they are evidence that the photo-taker loved little Khandalyce and wanted photos of her.


November 2008: The last known photos of Ms Pearce-Stevenson and Khandalyce were taken at Marion Shopping Centre. Khandalyce was pictured wearing a pink dress. Their last known sighting was driving on the Stuart Highway near Coober Pedy, in Far North South Australia, on November 8, 2008.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...violently-killed/story-fni6uo1m-1227576888695

 

[Bohemian]

kent town/norwood are expensive suburbs in Adelaide..........may pass through on way up to freeway to head out of adelaide

Thanks Suzie. Those suburbs look expensive, lots of greenery, close to the city, etc. You're right, the second transaction may have been when Karlie was just passing through on her way elsewhere.

What about the McDonalds purchase at Rundle Mall? I haven't been to SA for many years and I remember it being in the city centre. Is it? Also, isn't McDonalds at Rundle Mall a little 'out of the way' for someone to stop if they are passing through Kent Town/Norwood to head out of Adelaide?

 

[Trooper]

In Sept 2008, neither Hazel nor Holdom had a vehicle that would make the journey to Adelaide, which I am presuming was their destination before it all went to hell at Marla. They had a rented car on that journey, and it's reasonably logical to say that situation didn't change after the accident. Holdom, working as a car detailer in Alice, still didn't have a car that would do the distance.


Let's say, he considers himself in 'unfortunate circumstances,' at least by the middle of October and joins the UC club, and by chance so does Karlie. with her car. . Not a great car, not a new car, but able to do the distances Holdom needs to do. For what? :dunno: Sub Judice. But romance is provoked and the idea of living in Adelaide, presumably, because that's where they both go to, very shortly. Because Karlie's car will get him there.

And by November 2008, he and Karlie are in Adelaide, Karlie ( and Holdom?) are doing journeys to Port Augusta, back to the Alice, to Mt Gambier... presumably in Karlie's car. If Holdom's car couldn't get to Adelaide back in September, no reason to assume it could in October or November, so using Karlie's car makes sense. Where Hazels 2 yr old is, I don't know, nor where Hazel is, but it is logical that her injuries, particularly her amputation allied with the paraplegia would have her airlifted to Adelaide.. pretty quickly, I would think, nothing unusual in that. I cannot imagine the cost of hiring a car for these runs, not in 2008 and not now, unless... No one would lend anyone a car for this kind of travelling either, no one's friends are that nice.

And unless Holdom got a job immediately, as car detailer, or whatever, in Adelaide, he is not working, and it's hard to see how he could if he is with Karlie on these long distance hauls across South Australia from east to west and from north to south and into the NT. I don't see him getting sickies for all that at a new job.

All of November 2008 is practically taken up with driving, maybe October was too, and then December it's off to Canberra. . Not a lot of activity on Karlie's card in the few weeks of December left to Karlie. And then, after Dec 14, 2008, it's one person doing the driving.. Almost the same distance, as he and Karlie had done in November, around 5,300 kms , but this time, without a small child.

Karlie , in November, used up about 36% of her income on fuel. This left her with roughly $ 36.00 a day to feed herself, and Khandalyce. 6 meals a day, bathing, laundry, nappies, shelter, etc etc.. I don't think that can be done, really. ( Her income would have been about $1588 round it up to $1600 per month in 2008 ) ( fuel was around $1.18 and she did around 5,200 kms in Nov)

With Holdoms unemployment payment, the money would have been only slightly further advanced, because he has to be fed and sheltered and dressed and barbered and showered, all of which cost , hourly. That lifts the costs to 9 meals a day, etc.

So the move to Canberra must have had some prize , something 'better', something worth the upheaval for both of them to act upon the idea. Some expectation of premises to live in, of jobs to do, of perhaps a job for Karlie, because Canberra is a very expensive place to go to when one has nothing to start off with. It isn't a 'starter' kind of place. It is fair to say , if you go to Canberra with not much, not much is where you will remain. Perhaps someone offered to share a house in Charnwood. . .

 

[Estelle]

As the sighting of K & K in Canberra has not been confirmed, is it possible that Karlie was murdered before arriving in Canberra and only her body was taken to the Belanglo forest?

 

[Trooper]

As the sighting of K & K in Canberra has not been confirmed, is it possible that Karlie was murdered before arriving in Canberra and only her body was taken to the Belanglo forest?

I believe it has been confirmed by Des Bray ,the sighting in Canberra ...

The thing is, by the time Holdom gets to Canberra, it is logical to say he is broke. Merely by his situation. He has to get a job , he has no car of his own, probably, he is now 33 , he has no stake behind him , he has taken on a girl with a small child, but that could be seen as predictable income in one sense, he is responsible for Child Support Payments for 2 daughters somewhere.. ( in 2012 when he was , well. his situation was examined,, those payments were for children who were 7 and something? .. born before 2o08, anyways, ) so his financial situation is precarious at best and bloody aawful at worst, with not much hope of that changing.

Money must have driven a hole in his skull.. the lack of it, the fact that other people have some , the technique of getting some, the mechanics of acquiring some, the way to expand and build on some money, the consequences and conditions that are placed by not having any....

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe it has been confirmed by Des Bray ,the sighting in Canberra ...

RSBM

Yes, Des Bray is definitely directly quoted as saying that the ACT sighting is confirmed. It is not a journalistic misprint or mistake, he can clearly be heard to say it in the video at this link .... at the 10sec mark.


“We believe that Karlie and Khandalyce were killed in mid to late December 2008 and the last confirmed sighting was in Charnwood in Canberra,” Supt Bray said.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...r-she-was-killed/story-fni6uo1m-1227584173144

 

[Wolfinator]

I believe it has been confirmed by Des Bray ,the sighting in Canberra ...

The thing is, by the time Holdom gets to Canberra, it is logical to say he is broke. Merely by his situation. He has to get a job , he has no car of his own, probably, he is now 33 , he has no stake behind him , he has taken on a girl with a small child, but that could be seen as predictable income in one sense, he is responsible for Child Support Payments for 2 daughters somewhere.. ( in 2012 when he was , well. his situation was examined,, those payments were for children who were 7 and something? .. born before 2o08, anyways, ) so his financial situation is precarious at best and bloody aawful at worst, with not much hope of that changing.

Money must have driven a hole in his skull.. the lack of it, the fact that other people have some , the technique of getting some, the mechanics of acquiring some, the way to expand and build on some money, the consequences and conditions that are placed by not having any....

Very good points.

This does assume known legitimate income sources. The kms we know about make it impossible to believe that there was no other source of "income". IMO there's a good chance Haze and DJH were doing his "rounds" at the time of the accident. After which, a hire car was no longer an option due to loss of licence. There may have been a short cash flow crisis. It is the speed of HP bring "swapped" for KP that makes me think DJH had to keep the show on the road.


IMO

 

[Trooper]

For a long time the Canberra sighting was referred to by police as unconfirmed.
I don't know if it has ever become officially confirmed.

edited by me for brevity...

it really was confirmed, by Des Bray.. comprehensively, categorically...

 

[Trooper]

Very good points.

This does assume known legitimate income sources. The kms we know about make it impossible to believe that there was no other source of "income". IMO there's a good chance Haze and DJH were doing his "rounds" at the time of the accident. After which, a hire car was no longer an option due to loss of licence. There may have been a short cash flow crisis. It is the speed of HP bring "swapped" for KP that makes me think DJH had to keep the show on the road.


IMO

I didn't make a foray into unknown sources, Wolf.. what a wasps nest that would be, but I am convinced it was way out of the capacity of their known income, both of them, that could possibly allow these junkets , just not viable. . and the loss of his licence is crucial, to all the following events, I believe. But even that doesn't appear to be a barrier in murdering one's driver.. .. :thinking: ....

These were poor people. This is not to denigrate, merely to point out something that is a huge factor in this murder, in every aspect.. its' location, the method, the disposal of the bodies, the life lived thereafter.. poverty and life on the edge runs thru it a mile wide, at no point does this factor change, not even years later ,with Holdom. There may be money flowing in, but it sure is flowing out and not on them. Their lives don't become enhanced.

 

[Maggie_May]

Given the 3 day gap between Kent Town and Mt Gambier (towards which she could well have been headed from the Kent Town part of town using the Freeway) it stands to reason she was travelling from Adelaide via Mt Gambier to Canberra of course...reason for such a "detour"...Mt G is VERY drug-orientated...something had to make it worth the trip...

She sure as hell didn't just go via there to buy a suitcase from Strandbags... :'(

Also Rundle Mall is only 2.1 km driving distance from Kent Town.

Whereis:

http://www.whereis.com/directions?n....9248042&elon=138.6195034&rt=shortest_notolls

Belanglo murder: Karlie Pearce-Stevenson’s killer stole $90,000 by assuming her identity
October 28, 2015 4:22pm
Ashlee Mullany and Mark Morri
The Daily Telegraph

DATES AND LOCATIONS WHERE KARLIE PEARCE-STEVENSON’S BANK ACCOUNT WAS USED

3/11/2008 Purchase at KFC (Port Augusta)

6/11/2008 Purchase McDonalds (Rundle Mall, Adelaide)

9/11/2008 Eftpos Purchase Coles (Alice Springs)

14/11/2008 ATM withdrawal (Kent Town)

17/11/2008 Rabbit Photo/Strandbags (Mt Gambier)

24/11/2008 ATM withdrawal Kippax Fair (Canberra)

14-15/12/2008 Karlie allegedly murdered at Belanglo State Forest

16/12/2008 Charnwood (Canberra)

19/12/2008 Deakin (Canberra)

22/12/2008 BP OTR (Broadview, SA)

6/01/2009 Coober Pedy (Coober Pedy)

7/01/2009 EFTPOS Purchase Mobil (Alice Springs)

0/01/2009 ATM withdrawal BP (Broadview, SA)

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news...k=2bdb3fc497e2ee028b968db656a2befc-1449295464

 

[Maggie_May]

Yes so true visioneye...I feel like we South Aussies should be able to brainstorm enough "local knowledge" and instincts to cast some real light or at least come up with a cogent plausible theory and not giving up! I've lived and worked in enough places (including homelessness and prison system - worked not lived!) to muster some instinctive stuff...Renmark is my old stamping ground being born and bred a Riverlander...but all seems such a swirling smoke and mirrors atm...Re non-use of Karlie's card, are we right in assuming not all transactions of the 1200 have been listed?! Seems curious but no doubt strategic...and perhaps she did sizeable withdrawals and kept cash in her purse...no purchases were listed at Marion either...all IMO of course.

Yep everytime I go to Kent Town I have to get my compass out... no where near as central as Marion..

Addit: Sorry if confusing to non residents of Adelaide. You can walk easily from Rundle St centre of Adelaide to Kent Town, it is an adjacent suburb directly east of the city. It is a busy inner suburb with terrible parking, small businesses, medium to high density accommodation and a very expensive Private boys school, a temporary transit area if Karlee indeed stay here only IMO
Marion is waaaaay South/ West, suburban shopping area,(25-30 minute drive from CBD). No where near any of the other locations mentioned in Adelaide. No mention of Karlee using her card at Marion is interesting. IMO

 

[Maggie_May]

Great maps JaneSA and don't forget the interesting discovery last night though - the Coles Express at the Shell opposite Victoria Park actually is in Rose Park but comes up as KENT TOWN...sorry forget who posted that...certainly a possibility for both fuel and/or ATM withdrawal

Yes, it really is an odd place for an ATM transaction now you mention it.Kent Town is a tiny, triangular suburb with a private boys school and very densely packed residential housing and no-thru roads.

It is bounded by Fullarton Road, Hackney Road/DequettevilleTce and North Tce.The only commercial properties are along these 3 boundary roads and tend to be predominately accountants, small legal firms, wholesale agents, graphic designers and other B2B businesses.No banks and no shopping precincts.There is an OTR on the corner of Fullarton and North and as far as I can see, one of only 2 places likely to have an ATM.One other possibility is the Hackney Hotel.

 

[Trooper]

Yes so true visioneye...I feel like we South Aussies should be able to brainstorm enough "local knowledge" and instincts to cast some real light or at least come up with a cogent plausible theory and not giving up! I've lived and worked in enough places (including homelessness and prison system - worked not lived!) to muster some instinctive stuff...Renmark is my old stamping ground being born and bred a Riverlander...but all seems such a swirling smoke and mirrors atm...Re non-use of Karlie's card, are we right in assuming not all transactions of the 1200 have been listed?! Seems curious but no doubt strategic...and perhaps she did sizeable withdrawals and kept cash in her purse...no purchases were listed at Marion either...all IMO of course.

BBM.. yes, that is correct. The Task Force published the dates of transactions they were most interested in.. not many of those, just November and December and a bit of January 2009. The 1200 referred to specifically points to fraudulent transactions, that is, money withdrawn and accepted after Karlie and Khandalyce were dead. And that would be from 14 th December 2008 to when the activity from Centrelink stopped due to ' an issue' .. 2011, I think. . so really, only a very few of the fraudulent stuff has been released, and that would be the Charnwood , Broadview ,Coober Pedy, Alice Springs, Broadview stuff into early 2009.

And I presume the interest the Task Force has in those particular post death transactions out of Karlie's account are significant as to where she was murdered, where Khandalyce was murdered, and where the remains of both of them were eventually found.

 

[Maggie_May]

Let's just play "let's assume" for a minute...Mel May could well have been the friend and I guess could have had a few pics on her phone. An MSM article leading from that Huff Post one quoted her old netball coach as saying the community had tried to help.“I was on the page for ‘Help Find Karlie’ which was taken down a month ago. The photos used by police were taken by a friend in a shopping centre in Adelaide (November, 2008, before she was stopped by police at Coober Pedy). That was the last they saw of her. A friend met up with her in town. There are so many questions,” he said.

Now while that doesn't necessarily cast bright light, it lends some credence to Puggle's musings re older and younger photos. I can see Mel May being the CS caller as surely she too was in that loop of friends who were concerned by the need for an MPR and maybe contributed to Help Find Karlie FB page.

Do we know when that was taken down? Interesting to know the mini-timeline of withdrawal of MPR, taking down of FB page and CS call made ...all v.v. the Marion outing where Karlie (presumably taken on the day?) looked so very, very sad-eyed, thin and drawn in comparison with happier days :'(

Sorry to drop a post sort of out of flow with the convo... I maybe didn't follow up enough on this aspect - the crime stopper call.

But came across a huffpost article which I hadn't read before......Sort of fits in with recent convo of Marion questions...

The Article I have only just come across.... almost makes it suggestive that the crime stopper caller was the one that supplied both the Picture of Khandalyce in the stroller with the quilt picture....along with the Marion Shopping centre Picture ....well at least that's the way I am interpreting it ...But obviously it will be interpreted differently by others ...which is ok...open to all opinions and interpretations....

If my interpretation is the correct one...(not saying it is)...But...could that suggest a close association to Karlie to have (in possession) a photo of a younger Khandalyce and then also an older photo taken at Marion SA??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2015/10/22/karlie-khandalyce-murder_n_8352056.html