AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #9

[Puggle]

it seems reasonable to suppose that , having changed Karlie's address to where they ( the shysters) have access to, and they must have done this, else how could they know they have to turn up at Centrelink and the bank? has to be by mail. So. it is rational that that address of Karlie's was changed to an address in Adelaide..
It would be hard to believe that the female impersonator, for example, just woke up one day and thought.. oh. I must check about this card, with the bank.. I just don't think so.


DS Bray has only mentioned calls to the family , and Colleen, from 2010.. .. he didn't mention any calls made before that, but that doesn't rule out text messages, etc.. .. they had her phone.

Just taking a few steps back....Oona posted:
But then they would have to give their address to Karlie's family which doesn't seem likely.

Which is something I am inclined to agree with...

Trooper there is something there in the dates...can't put my finger on it.
Gnawing away at me.

2009 The Missing person's report raised apparently due to concern that Karlie wasn't accessing her account... hence letters were in Karlie's families possession.

How would said fraudsters be aware of that concern initially?

To then inturn scheme a plot to have her mail re-directed.

 

[Puggle]

Perhaps Karlie's gran left a message on her phone to let her know she needed to update her bank details.
And on the subject of Karlie's phone... when I had a prepaid account I added credit online via PayPal, my current account is just debited from my credit card... are there other ways to add phone credit?

That's a credible idea Bundy...

 

[Trooper]

Just taking a few steps back....Oona posted:
But then they would have to give their address to Karlie's family which doesn't seem likely.

Which is something I am inclined to agree with...

Trooper there is something there in the dates...can't put my finger on it.
Gnawing away at me.

2009 The Missing person's report raised apparently due to concern that Karlie wasn't accessing her account... hence letters were in Karlie's families possession.

How would said fraudsters be aware of that concern initially?

To then inturn scheme a plot to have her mail re-directed.

I always presumed someone, au fait with Facebook and able to access Karlie's family pages, monitored that very carefully. There would have been lots of stuff re Karlie, and Karlie not contacting Colleen, on it, I reckon. One thing, they knew very bloody quickly, because that Official Missing Person status only lasted 4 days. Within 4 days, one could say, someone pretending to be Karlie, contacted Colleen. So that ended the Missing Persons report.

Also. I posted it a few pages, or maybe many pages ago, but there is a MSN report where it is said, the Police themselves contacted 'Karlie' on her phone. Now, we know, and they know it wasn't Karlie. The Police actually must have spoken to the accomplice, without knowing it, IF that report is correct. I tend to think it is, because it seems rational that the Police would only back off once they themselves spoke to 'Karlie'.. and this 'Karlie ' said she didn't want to contact her family at this time , so the Police backed off.

Cruel. really cruel, but if this report is true, how cool must the impersonator be? not at all fazed by a call from the Police!!..

 

[Puggle]

The fraudster/s could have done an Aust Post redirection order, again posing as Karlie, with the usual documentary proof. Easily achieved and can be done at any Post Office in Australia.

This is plausible KG1 ..... still I am having trouble figuring out how the fraudsters knew there was an issue to begin with and...a year after the murder??.........

seems to me if they/he/she is thinking one step ahead all the time...to wait a year or for that matter to wait any lengthy period of time after the murder to change the mail direction - when all other activities pertaining to the fraud seem to have begun almost immediately.....ahhhh...I don't know what I'm thinking....but something seems off to me IMO.

 

[Trooper]

Once this scam is started, it is almost impossible to finish , really. Once Holdom extracts cash out of Karlie's account at Charnwood and Deakin after the 14th Dec. and it works. .. it works a treat, he has the pin number right, just taps it in, and lo and behold the money oozes out of the slot.. no worries. ..

After that, its almost habit forming. But to now avoid investigation of theft, never mind the murders, the scam and all that entails has to go on. It cannot cease. This is where the paper work comes in handy. With the paperwork and a woman accomplice who has nerves of steel and the capacity to look anyone dead in the eye and lie thru her teeth without breaking a sweat, the scam does continue. It only ends way into 2011, when some 'issue ' in Centrelink halts the deposits, nothing stops it but that, but even that doesn't pose a problem. Just walk away from it and do something else.

 

[they'll get you]

I think they already changed Karlie's address. with Centrelink, and with the bank, which is why they knew to head on in, all nerveless and well rehearsed with all the pertinent papers that have been carefully gathered up after the murder in Canberra, and then taken to South Australia,( because it makes sense that Karlie carried her papers with her to Canberra..) perhaps months, or a year before expecting some kind of summons like this..

just rock on up , smile and don't get too heavily involved in conversation re the wheelchair, hand over the paperwork, get the stuff done and then roll on out. Simples.

Confirmation of identity
For most of our payments, you must confirm your identity when claiming.

To confirm your identity, you must provide an original document for each of the following:

verification of your birth or arrival in Australia, such as a birth certificate, visa or citizenship certificate
a photographic document with security features, such as an Australian driver’s licence or proof of age card
a state or local government or non-government document, such as a fishing licence or a bank ATM card
The documents must not be photocopies. The confirming your identity form lists the documents you can use.

You need to provide different identification documents for each of the 3 requirements.

Where possible, we will use the documents you provide to progress your claim. However, you may need to provide more documents to be eligible for some payments or services.

You may not need to provide documents if you have previously met the identity requirements.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/proof-of-identity

 

[Puggle]

I always presumed someone, au fait with Facebook and able to access Karlie's family pages, monitored that very carefully. There would have been lots of stuff re Karlie, and Karlie not contacting Colleen, on it, I reckon. One thing, they knew very bloody quickly, because that Official Missing Person status only lasted 4 days. Within 4 days, one could say, someone pretending to be Karlie, contacted Colleen. So that ended the Missing Persons report.

Also. I posted it a few pages, or maybe many pages ago, but there is a MSN report where it is said, the Police themselves contacted 'Karlie' on her phone. Now, we know, and they know it wasn't Karlie. The Police actually must have spoken to the accomplice, without knowing it, IF that report is correct. I tend to think it is, because it seems rational that the Police would only back off once they themselves spoke to 'Karlie'.. and this 'Karlie ' said she didn't want to contact her family at this time , so the Police backed off.

Cruel. really cruel, but if this report is true, how cool must the impersonator be? not at all fazed by a call from the Police!!..

I am not 100%...but the FB page I think you are taking about wasn't born until 2010? - due to Karlie's Mothers illness....so I am thinking that is not the way the fraudsters knew about needing to go to the bank/update details.

Bundy's idea is very plausible though..... Maybe her Grandmother simply texted her about needing to go to the bank.....and they/she/he already had documents in their possession to be able to contact those concerned to issue a redirect of mail.

 

[Trooper]

I don't have any dates of use of Karlie's card after around Jan 2009.... or where it was used, but it seems to me, merely an opinion, that the usage of that card will be done up until 2011 in Adelaide.. that the killer and the accomplice lived in Adelaide , or perhaps just the accomplice did, because there has to be some payoff in this whole shindig for her... she wouldn't be doing this for nothing, for no payoff at all.

She has risked a long prison sentence to pull this off, she has taken on the Commonwealth of Australia in a matter of persistent theft, so there has to be something in it for her. Some financial reward, as in unlimited use of the card, or even exclusive use of it, during a certain period of time, and maybe it caused trouble between them.. its not improbable.

 

[Puggle]

I am sorry if I missed something (more than likely did)....can anyone remind me or link when Hazel actually got out of hospital.

For some reason I have March 2009 in my head...

 

[Trooper]

I am sorry if I missed something (more than likely did)....can anyone remind me or link when Hazel actually got out of hospital.

For some reason I have March 2009 in my head...

I have Jan 7th 2009 in my head, simply cannot recall why that is so.


Maybe the killers did the simple thing and merely monitored the Northern Territory Missing Persons web page.. and the South Australian one, also, its possible, and that's how they knew Karlie was up on it, but they had to be quick, so I think it was a daily routine.

Because, a lot of effort has gone into maintaining the thought that Karlie and Khandalyce are not dead. no. not even close, no. but safe and well and living in comfort somewhere far away. So a daily gig at this website would be normal, probably.

http://www.missingpersons.gov.au/missing-persons/profiles/nt

 

[Puggle]

I don't have any dates of use of Karlie's card after around Jan 2009.... or where it was used, but it seems to me, merely an opinion, that the usage of that card will be done up until 2011 in Adelaide.. that the killer and the accomplice lived in Adelaide , or perhaps just the accomplice did, because there has to be some payoff in this whole shindig for her... she wouldn't be doing this for nothing, for no payoff at all.

She has risked a long prison sentence to pull this off, she has taken on the Commonwealth of Australia in a matter of persistent theft, so there has to be something in it for her. Some financial reward, as in unlimited use of the card, or even exclusive use of it, during a certain period of time, and maybe it caused trouble between them.. its not improbable.

I would think or consider going by your opinion/idea's that the pay off would be simply money...simple as that ...well at least to begin with..

If not the murderer of either ..... and simply being an accomplice after the fact would be more than enough motivation to follow through with the illusion that Karlie was still alive = maintain the fraud.

His name escapes me ATM (good thing as he deserves no recognition)...the mastermind behind the Snowtown murders employed powers over his accomplices ... would they have murdered or committed fraud through centre link prior to knowing him? I don't think so...

But once he had embroiled them he was then able to manipulate them...eventually even able to make them equal partners in subsequent murders....it's amazingly cruel how psychopath's can manipulate those around them...... Maybe it was as simple as that..

Me....No fixed opinion Idea as yet. Too many variables to consider.

The unliked by some...... Crimestopper exclusive - holds some credibility for me IMO....due to the vast contrast in Karlie's personal pictures, the irrational idea of taking off with a young child to start a new life - without definite plans, Des Bray comment that they didn't believe Karlie was drawing from the Centre link monies (that one has me stumped - needs to e explored more)....What we know about her from MSM reports - connections to the Drag Racing Community..

I believe we were offered a certain amount of leeway... One of the elite from the Dragway community was embroiled in an interstate drug running/manufacturing sting ..... That gives me pause to consider other scenarios other than the most obvious....which may be 100% incorrect...

Thankfully I have faith in our Police to join all dots or rule out dots that may on the surface appear to join....

But yep...all valid points and opinions I have seen posted today....

 

[JaneSA]

Hello Sleuthers

This is a possible scenario IMO:

KPS becomes DJH's driver/co-worker (possibly both involved in ice trade/using - "unfortunate circumstances group") following the Marla accident, <modsnip> and does not have a car. KPS has a car and license and is possibly in financial and drug related trouble (the Marion photos taken by a friend/family friend indicate that all is not good). DJH offers to help KPS to leave the country, eg to NZ or similar, hence the birth certificate, visit to Rabbit phots and the suitcase/s. Khandalyce is possibly being cared for in Renmark (hence the police discussion of her death being about a month later) whilst everything is being arranged. Something happens - a domestic/argument/ice fuelled rage or DJH decides he can murder KPS and get away with it...

He returns to Adelaide and tells HP that KPS has left the country under an alias. Perhaps KPS owes him money...HP is able to use KPS' identity and has not been charged with more serious crimes.

This all begins to unravel in late 2010/early 2011 after the credit union visit, the discovery of Karlie's body, the Centrelink visit and the cessation of Centrelink payments. DJH and HP separate - they leave their home in a disorganised manner. DJH sets up a company and ABN as a "proof of life" measure and continues to use the bank card until 2012.

Wynarka and Belanglo are both known places to DJH due to Enduro tracks (Plongi). The suitcase is possibly in the process of being moved when it is discarded in 2015. The person moving it is thrown by the road works lights. The suitcase man may have been trying to find, retrieve and swap it, possibly unaware of its contents and significance... Alternatively, the case has been found by someone related to the Enduro track and discarded when they believe there are only clothes inside.

All IMO only...

Great to read a new theory!
It could certainly explain why HP is still not charged with any crime.
I personally think (IMO) that she was acting out of kindness to Karlie, but few people agree with me

 

[JaneSA]

There is one possibility that comes to mind to me, especially as the police have mentioned that Karlie used to stay in caravan parks at times. Just off of Hackney Rd (one suburb north of Kent Town) is the Adelaide Caravan Park. (46 Richmond St, Hackney).

It would be an alternative from staying within the city centre but is a really easy walk to the Royal Adelaide Hospital either by cutting through the Botanic Gardens or by walking up Hackney Rd (to the Royal Hotel corner in Kent Town) and then along North Tce. Walking in would be both cheaper and easier than trying to find a car park near the hospital. (I used to walk this way myself daily while studying at Adelaide Uni and living near the caravan park)

Well fancy that!
I never knew that was there and drove that way for several years.

 

[Puggle]

I have Jan 7th 2009 in my head, simply cannot recall why that is so.


Maybe the killers did the simple thing and merely monitored the Northern Territory Missing Persons web page.. and the South Australian one, also, its possible, and that's how they knew Karlie was up on it, but they had to be quick, so I think it was a daily routine.

Because, a lot of effort has gone into maintaining the thought that Karlie and Khandalyce are not dead. no. not even close, no. but safe and well and living in comfort somewhere far away. So a daily gig at this website would be normal, probably.

http://www.missingpersons.gov.au/missing-persons/profiles/nt

Thanks for that...lol...sounds like we are both a bit unsure...

If her Nan & Mum Reported her missing and then that was retracted as quickly as what it was....??? would it (Her missing person's report) been up on any web page??...

Sounds exhausting....

I'm just not sure how much credit I can afford either way.....

One hand Posters *IMO* they are criminal masterminds who have pulled of a fraud for so long, duping family and friends.

And other Posters *IMO* There has to be more going on here other than the *KISS* idea and Someone or an Organization involved...dare I say in Bray's on words (which has me thinking) *Syndicate*...


I reason we have only been given a snippet of what Police know.....so the ball is still up in the air for me...for now.

 

[visioneye]

Problem that I am seeing in this story of change of address of mail from Karlee's address in Alice to another (eg. Adelaide) .... is that it is just almost impossible for Australia Post to get the redirection right, there is always mail that comes through to previous addresses.
This is not a criticism of Australia Post it is just a fact that banks, phone companies, superannuation companies and government departments WILL send the mail to the previous address or the redirect will fail.
This means that the family is aware of Karlees changed location ( and they are trying to protect her) or there is an intercept at Grandma's house, who is picking up Karlees mail and forwarding it to someone (like DH) IMO

 

[JaneSA]

Something just occurred to me regarding the "updating of details" at Australian Central Credit Union when it merged and changed names in 2010.
The probable only way the person/s accessing Karlie's account could have known to do that is if they were receiving Karlie's mail.
I remember this is how I was notified. I was sent a letter asking me to come in to a branch with ID and receive/apply for a new keycard.
To me this suggests that Karlie's mail was being sent to an address of one of the fraudsters or they were somehow collecting her mail from elsewhere.

This quote from the Advertiser suggests that Karlie's grandma was receiving her mail in 2008 from (Centrelink at least) but I am not sure how accurate it is:
"It was when Mrs Duffy opened her granddaughter’s mail and noticed her Centrelink payments had not been touched for a fortnight that she and friends first suspected something was wrong and began looking for Ms Pearce-Stevenson in late 2008."
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...vestigators-told/story-fni6uo1m-1227599497241

Great post!
Yes, it would surely be necessary for the mail to be going to an accessible address, probably in Adelaide, which would mean it was changed from Connie Duffy's address to the new address after Karlie was dead.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Another way to to a recharge voucher in supermarkets, 7-Eleven or service stations. You can then recharge either online or over the phone.

ATM also possible, I think.

 

[Puggle]

Problem that I am seeing in this story of change of address of mail from Karlee's address in Alice to another (eg. Adelaide) .... is that it is just almost impossible for Australia Post to get the redirection right, there is always mail that comes through to previous addresses.
This is not a criticism of Australia Post it is just a fact that banks, phone companies, superannuation companies and government departments WILL send the mail to the previous address or the redirect will fail.
This means that the family is aware of Karlees changed location ( and they are trying to protect her) or there is an intercept at Grandma's house, who is picking up Karlees mail and forwarding it to someone (like DH) IMO

You are right visioneye.......and possibly when everything comes out in the future what you have posted will form part of the story that we at present.... aren't privy to.

 

[Wozzie]

What about a slightly different scenario... just throwing it out there.

Just to be clear before I begin, I'm not victim-bashing here at all, just brainstorming...I feel huge amounts of empathy for Karlie but it does seem possible that she was caught up in a difficult situation of some variety.
What if Karlie was doing the runs from state to state (as a mule not a one-person operation), perhaps even only the once.
What if DH and HP really were just on a general family holiday, caught up with K&K in Darwin, continued on & headed down towards Adelaide.
Had the accident. HP flown to Alice. Karlie back in Alice, hears about the accident (visits HP & DH & offers to help out, not forgetting she knows the kids also and would have been pretty shocked).
Perhaps upon hearing that HP needs to head to Adelaide for rehab offers to help pack up their house and bring some belongings to Adelaide on the next run. Perhaps Karlie confides in DH what she is doing. Perhaps the thought of the money &/or drugs gets the better of DH and he decides to take it for himself (and HP/child). If he makes it look like K&K have gone on the run with it, he gets the money and offers to take over the role. Perhaps stealing her identity initially is more about hiding her murder from the syndicate bosses so he could keep the money and have a future income (if only for a little while) as well as anyone who might be looking for her.
With HP still in hospital he racks up the kms to finish the jobs that Karlie was supposed to.
Little Khandles is an obvious liability to him... he either takes on the role of her demise himself or passes her on to someone else (is this where suitcase man features?).
Have no idea exactly how HP's role plays out in this scenario (yes to the fraud at a minimum), but I think she features less as a main player in the period between the accident and K&K's death than a lot of others seem to be crediting her with.

I haven't got the time/brainpower to iron out all the creases with this scenario myself, but it keeps popping back up again and again so I have to throw it out there. Hope I haven't overstepped any lines here regarding what can/can't be discussed.

Exhausting just trying to get my head around all of the convolutions in this tragedy... seems to be at least a few month long saga full of "unfortunate circumstances" for all the major players, that ultimately led to the death of these two angels.

 

[Wolfinator]

Thanks for that...lol...sounds like we are both a bit unsure...

If her Nan & Mum Reported her missing and then that was retracted as quickly as what it was....??? would it (Her missing person's report) been up on any web page??...

Sounds exhausting....

I'm just not sure how much credit I can afford either way.....

One hand Posters *IMO* they are criminal masterminds who have pulled of a fraud for so long, duping family and friends.

And other Posters *IMO* There has to be more going on here other than the *KISS* idea and Someone or an Organization involved...dare I say in Bray's on words (which has me thinking) *Syndicate*...


I reason we have only been given a snippet of what Police know.....so the ball is still up in the air for me...for now.

Yes we do have black spots and wildly divergent information. Some just plain old lack of information and the other points that could shed a lot of light are either sub judice or against WS terms.

In the spirit of throwing around possibilities....

Connie's carer was part of the syndicate - forwarding the mail and keeping tabs on the family.

In his infinite wisdom in a plan to exonerate himself/distance himself in a town that would be happy to rip him to shreds if it comes to light feeds the drug bounty story to Crime Stoppers.

Waits patiently to no avail - the police don't come knocking (I can only imagine they know it's bogus?) So he implements Plan B and tells the media.
(though I still lean more towards gross embellishment and cash for comment theory)

However on a much more prosaic level and having worked in the finance sector ATMs and ATM receipts are able to be coded to communicate marketing/information campaigns to customers particularly in preparation for mergers and acquisitions. The need to change her address because of the merger and the bank issuing new cards could have just as easily been spat out at the ATM.

And just to check are we/me wrongly assuming it was the bank change that was the driver for the attendance to change address details? Or could it have had nothing to do with the merger - they just needed to change the address to get a more recent statement to keep up with other ID needs/points. Any statements that Karlie had would have been over 12 months old and no longer acceptable as a form of identification?

Eurgh - soooo many loose threads - not enough coffee in the world this morning!!!


IMO