AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #9

[sosocurious]

Police will allege Holdom went with Ms Pearce-Stevenson to the isolated location in the NSW Southern Highlands and killed her while Khandalyce stayed in the ACT.

It will be alleged days after her death, Holdom travelled with Khandalyce from the ACT and over the border into NSW, where he is accused of murdering the blonde-haired toddler.

Detective Superintendent Des Bray, from South Australia Major Crime Investigation branch, said police had a "very good understanding" of what happened to the mother and child.

He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody.

http://www.batemansbaypost.com.au/s...arged-with-murder-of-khandalyce-pearce/?cs=12

 

[JaneSA]

Police will allege Holdom went with Ms Pearce-Stevenson to the isolated location in the NSW Southern Highlands and killed her while Khandalyce stayed in the ACT.

It will be alleged days after her death, Holdom travelled with Khandalyce from the ACT and over the border into NSW, where he is accused of murdering the blonde-haired toddler.

Detective Superintendent Des Bray, from South Australia Major Crime Investigation branch, said police had a "very good understanding" of what happened to the mother and child.

He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody.

http://www.batemansbaypost.com.au/s...arged-with-murder-of-khandalyce-pearce/?cs=12

"He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody."
This make me wonder...

Is it fortunate because they can interrogate him as much and as long as they wish, or is it fortunate because if he was not in custody he might be a danger to someone else or in danger from someone else?
Also, why does Bray not wish to say if DH is cooperating or not?
I think there is another person or people involved, as the police said very early on.
I think the police want those people to be wondering and worrying about what DH has been saying (even if he is actually saying nothing).

 

[Panda]

Police will allege Holdom went with Ms Pearce-Stevenson to the isolated location in the NSW Southern Highlands and killed her while Khandalyce stayed in the ACT.

It will be alleged days after her death, Holdom travelled with Khandalyce from the ACT and over the border into NSW, where he is accused of murdering the blonde-haired toddler.

Detective Superintendent Des Bray, from South Australia Major Crime Investigation branch, said police had a "very good understanding" of what happened to the mother and child.

He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody.

http://www.batemansbaypost.com.au/s...arged-with-murder-of-khandalyce-pearce/?cs=12

Thanks for that soso.

This is what confused me:

"Police will allege Daniel James Holdom killed Karlie Pearce-Stevenson, 20, sometime around December 15 in 2008 before driving to Canberra with her daughter." (BBM).

"It’s then alleged Holdom killed Khandalyce while on the way to South Australia in the vicinity of the small NSW town of Wallaroo some time between 2.17am on December 19 and 12.52am on December 20. Police have not released how or exactly where she died."

Just so I'm clear in my own head - Holdom killed Karlie at Belanglo, then went to Canberra (with or without Khandalyce, as I'm still not sure, though I think the article you posted sounds more plausible), then killed Khandalyce in Wallaroo, NSW, on his way to SA, some 4 or 5 days after killing Karlie.

Does that sound about right?

 

[Panda]

"He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody."
This make me wonder...

Is it fortunate because they can interrogate him as much and as long as they wish, or is it fortunate because if he was not in custody he might be a danger to someone else or in danger from someone else?
Also, why does Bray not wish to say if DH is cooperating or not?
I think there is another person or people involved, as the police said very early on.
I think the police want those people to be wondering and worrying about what DH has been saying (even if he is actually saying nothing).

Probably a number of reasons Jane. Because he couldn't be a further menace, because he couldn't abscond, people others are blabbing because he's in gaol, and to flush out anyone else who can throw more light.

 

[Panda]

So (another thought here). If Khandalyce was as I originally thought left with someone to look after her in Canberra, and Holdom subsequently picked her up, with all her belongings (hence the suitcase) before murdering her and dumping her remains at Wynarka ... whoever was looking after Khandalyce when Holdom was murdering Karlie must have questioned the whereabouts of Karlie, when Holdom didn't return with her. So that person either knew Karlie was killed by Holdom, or Holdom had to make up a very significant story as to why Karlie wasn't with him and why he was taking Khandalyce somewhere else. I'm betting on the sister. If that's the case, I wonder where Passmore fits in?

 

[JackHigh]

This case is so frustrating, even more-so now that we don't know when the suitcase was dumped.
In the past I was absolutely certain the police had said Khandalyce's body decomposed outside the suitcase and was placed into it later and then dumped in early 2015.
Now I am not sure what they are saying or what to believe.
But, whenever the suitcase was dumped and whenever Khandalyce's body was put inside it, two questions remain to jangle about in my brain:
1. why leave body and identifiable items together?
2. why leave it there?

The assumption is that he wanted a great distance between his 2 victims so that they wouldn't be linked easily. That shows some sort of logic above the level of cretin.
So, if he has a plan to put distance between the crimes, why dump the case on the roadside so close to a town and why with her clothes?
He knows the area and therefore knows he is only minutes away from the Murray. Drop the case off a bridge there and it will sink without a trace.
Again, I can't reconcile the stupid with the clever.

I think the key to when the case was discarded is in the contents, the quilt etc. was photographed in the months leading up to the crimes, it makes sense that everything unnecessary went into the case with the body and dumped on retern to SA, i doubt he would have kept all that stuff for years to dump with the body.
I think the catalyst for the disposal site is the big green sign just west of Karoonda which says Murray Bridge 65k, from this point the case was found approximately 20k give or take and at highway speeds would have taken 10 minutes. The actual location where it was discovered is at the edge of the last real large section of scrub if im correct.
I think he saw the sign telling him he was getting close to an area where the likelyhood of detection was elevated, in those 10 minutes he took to make the final decision brought him to the place the case was found, just past the town of Wynarka but before the scrub thinned out.

I dont think he was too concerned about the cases discovery or what may be used to identify the contents, i think he just wanted it dealt with before he returned to his previous life.

 

[JackHigh]

Something that has stood out for me is the nature in which Karlie was killed, LE have pointed towards 'stomping'
It made me think, why stomping, its not the most commonly used method and takes a lot more effort than a knife.
Then it dawned on me, 3 months prior he had been involved in a MVA involving a rollover, rollovers often produce crush injuries.

I cant help but feel that perhaps K made reference to the accident, maybe he offered to drive somewhere and she made a comment that she wouldnt trust him to drive her and Khandalyce after what had happened, combined with what he had been through, perhaps it was enough to make him snap.

With HP laid up in hospital and a new relationship with an attractive young woman, is it posssible when he left for Canberra he had no intention of returning to his old life until something went wrong, is something as simple as what i've posed above enouigh to trigger the sequence of events that followed.

All MOO.

 

[Bundy]

I am betting on the sister's also, I think they were all staying there and he has missed the birth certificate when he pack the 2 suit cases and picked up Khandalyce. You would have to think that he has spun his sis a story about Karlie's absence because his sister seems to have put away the birth certificate for safe keeping, she would have undoubtedly disposed of it if she had known what had happened.

So (another thought here). If Khandalyce was as I originally thought left with someone to look after her in Canberra, and Holdom subsequently picked her up, with all her belongings (hence the suitcase) before murdering her and dumping her remains at Wynarka ... whoever was looking after Khandalyce when Holdom was murdering Karlie must have questioned the whereabouts of Karlie, when Holdom didn't return with her. So that person either knew Karlie was killed by Holdom, or Holdom had to make up a very significant story as to why Karlie wasn't with him and why he was taking Khandalyce somewhere else. I'm betting on the sister. If that's the case, I wonder where Passmore fits in?

 

[Maggie_May]

I like to think I would at least take a full suitcase of children's clothing (especially a toddler's) in to the nearest Police Station or even local store in a small blink and you'd miss it small town in the Mallee, in case it had blown off someone's trailer or roofrack. I guess if it was scattered everywhere, maybe not (especially if everything looked all mouldy and very old) I might be less inclined to look for any identifying feature too if the contents were old and dispersed.But no, I would not automatically think foul play, call CSA - until now, that is

I think this has gotten all of us. What gets me is how so many people could have come across the suitcase and taken so long to report it. Once again, it's very difficult to reconcile one's thoughts with others at times. You expect a certain standard from humanity, which apparently is vastly removed from what I believe a regular person would think or do.

 

[Bundy]

Fortunate for a lot of reason probably, but I thought it was to give them as much time as needed to collect evidence before they charged him with Khandalyce's murder.

"He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody."
This make me wonder...

Is it fortunate because they can interrogate him as much and as long as they wish, or is it fortunate because if he was not in custody he might be a danger to someone else or in danger from someone else?
Also, why does Bray not wish to say if DH is cooperating or not?
I think there is another person or people involved, as the police said very early on.
I think the police want those people to be wondering and worrying about what DH has been saying (even if he is actually saying nothing).

 

[JackHigh]

I am betting on the sister's also, I think they were all staying there and he has missed the birth certificate when he pack the 2 suit cases and picked up Khandalyce. You would have to think that he has spun his sis a story about Karlie's absence because his sister seems to have put away the birth certificate for safe keeping, she would have undoubtedly disposed of it if she had known what had happened.

Im thinking perhaps he came up with a story of K needing to return home to the Alice in a hurray, maybe said she flew out of Sydney and left Khandalyce with him with intentions to return to SA and reunite later on.
Would explain going out of the way to be around Belangelo, is a good enough explination of K's absence and allows him to move around freely with Khandalyce until he worked out how it would play out.
Remember, if we are to consider his sister didnt really know k, she wouldnt know if leaving her 2yo with someone was an option.

 

[Maggie_May]

Good one Soso thanks - very clear recap from police info and a good regrouper for thought processes. I know police info has seemed so inconsistent over time in several key ways but I'm thinking they know SO much more now, it has to be taken as reliable now that he's actually been charged with Khandalyce's murder as well.

Police will allege Holdom went with Ms Pearce-Stevenson to the isolated location in the NSW Southern Highlands and killed her while Khandalyce stayed in the ACT.

It will be alleged days after her death, Holdom travelled with Khandalyce from the ACT and over the border into NSW, where he is accused of murdering the blonde-haired toddler.

Detective Superintendent Des Bray, from South Australia Major Crime Investigation branch, said police had a "very good understanding" of what happened to the mother and child.

He wouldn't go into whether Holdom had co-operated with police but said it was fortunate he was already in custody.

http://www.batemansbaypost.com.au/s...arged-with-murder-of-khandalyce-pearce/?cs=12

 

[JackHigh]

Hmm, thats interesting. After travelling all over the SE corner of the country with a 2yo, she left her in Canberra to travel a couple of hours to Belangelo.

 

[Panda]

Hmm, thats interesting. After travelling all over the SE corner of the country with a 2yo, she left her in Canberra to travel a couple of hours to Belangelo.

Yes, it is interesting. And it makes one wonder why. Did Holdom and Karlie go on a trip to enjoy a "romantic" weekend together, for example? (14 December 2008 I believe was a Sunday.)

 

[JackHigh]

It implies premeditation on some part, i mean, Khandalyce appears to go everywhere Karlie went, and rightly so, but when they make the treck either to or past belangelo we are to believe she is absent.

Its a tricky one, on one hand you have what appears to be premeditation, yet the abrupt timing and nature of the injuries and lack of weapon would suggest a sudden, rage fuelled event.

So much to consider.

 

[JaneSA]

Hmm, thats interesting. After travelling all over the SE corner of the country with a 2yo, she left her in Canberra to travel a couple of hours to Belangelo.

I think little Khandles must surely have become the sort of child who sleeps anywhere and is used to strangers. She seems to have rarely been in one place for more than a days or so.
Consequently, If K, K and D were all staying at the sister's house, I'd think it quite feasible that Karlie would go out while Khandles was sleeping and just ask the sister to keep an ear out in case she woke.
A child who is well adjusted to such an itinerant lifestyle would probably be fairly placid and easy for a relative stranger to care for.

 

[JackHigh]

Yes, it is interesting. And it makes one wonder why. Did Holdom and Karlie go on a trip to enjoy a "romantic" weekend together, for example? (14 December 2008 I believe was a Sunday.)

Possible, but Karlie would have to be up for it, considering how much money had been spent in the months leading up to the night i doubt any extra expenses would have been likely if possible.

The way we are being told the story eludes to a special trip from Canberra to Belangelo and then back, but if Khandalyce was left in Canberra with a carer who's told they would only be a few hours, how does he explain K's absence on return.
Unless whoever had Khandalyce was privvy to the upcoming events, he would need to come up with a story believable enough for K to leave her daughter behind whilst explaining her absence the following day when he returned to khandalyce.

I've got this picture in my head of him convincing Karlie she should head back to AS for something, by plane, from Sydney, without Khandalyce. If reports are correct they leave khandalyce in Canberra. Upon DH's return they will travel by car back to SA to either reunite in Adelaide or on to AS.
As they pass Belangelo he mentions the Milat case and being the free spirit she appears to be, is up for a quick detour for the thrill of being there.
He takes his opportunity, hangs around for a while to give the impression he has been to Sydney and back and returns to Canberra.
He packs up everything and leaves the ACT with Khandalyce for delaide and no one is any the wiser.
Everyone in SA/NT thinks they are interstate, those interstate think they went home.

 

[Panda]

I think little Khandles must surely have become the sort of child who sleeps anywhere and is used to strangers. She seems to have rarely been in one place for more than a days or so.
Consequently, If K, K and D were all staying at the sister's house, I'd think it quite feasible that Karlie would go out while Khandles was sleeping and just ask the sister to keep an ear out in case she woke.
A child who is well adjusted to such an itinerant lifestyle would probably be fairly placid and easy for a relative stranger to care for.

Yes, that's a very valid point Jane. Kids who are used to that type of lifestyle are far more adaptable with strangers, where they sleep, etc.

 

[JackHigh]

I think little Khandles must surely have become the sort of child who sleeps anywhere and is used to strangers. She seems to have rarely been in one place for more than a days or so.
Consequently, If K, K and D were all staying at the sister's house, I'd think it quite feasible that Karlie would go out while Khandles was sleeping and just ask the sister to keep an ear out in case she woke.
A child who is well adjusted to such an itinerant lifestyle would probably be fairly placid and easy for a relative stranger to care for.

Agreed, but from reports the one constant in her itinerant lifestyle was Karlie. We haven't been told of Khandalyce being left alone with anyone else, infact, the long hauls over the preceeding months tells me Karlie didnt go too far without Khandalyce.

Would she just up and leave her with someone she's just met or would she take her along as usual.

If it were only for a few hours to go to Belangelo, its possible, but how did that conversation go..'hey can I leave Khandalyce with you while we go to Belangelo for the night' and how did he explain to whoever had Khadalyce, Karlie not returning.
In there is the dilemma, to believe this, she would had to have willingly left her child, to visit a forest notorious with serial killing and doesnt return to pick her up and no one bats an eyelid.

 

[Panda]

Agreed, but from reports the one constant in her itinerant lifestyle was Karlie. We haven't been told of Khandalyce being left alone with anyone else, infact, the long hauls over the preceeding months tells me Karlie didnt go too far without Khandalyce.

Would she just up and leave her with someone she's just met or would she take her along as usual.

If it were only for a few hours to go to Belangelo, its possible, but how did that conversation go..'hey can I leave Khandalyce with you while we go to Belangelo for the night' and how did he explain to whoever had Khadalyce, Karlie not returning.
In there is the dilemma, to believe this, she would had to have willingly left her child, to visit a forest notorious with serial killing and doesnt return to pick her up and no one bats an eyelid.

Yes, I see what you mean. So do you think it was premeditated - Holdom specifically took Karlie to kill her? I guess the next question is, how do we know she wasn't already dead and he took her to Belanglo purely to dump the body, to confuse police, re Milat.