Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

I am guessing that EP must have a fair amount of income from her properties, if SP was instructed not to pay anything more than $40 child support, and no other bills. $40 is a token payment really. $20 per child.

Her income must far surpass his.

I'd say she was probably getting all of the income from the properties, with Simon getting zero. And that way Child Support would consider her to be getting his share of the income on jointly owned properties - and that would be considered, by Child Support, to be the bulk of his child support payments.

imo

 

[drsleuth]

12.10pm

Can you please pay this? A tense text exchange over child expenses​

By​

After a short mid-morning break, the cross-examination of Simon Patterson, husband of accused murderer Erin Patterson, has resumed.

Erin’s defence lawyer, Colin Mandy, SC, is directing Simon to a document several pages long that contains a string of messages between him and Erin from November 22, 2022, to August 15, 2023.

In the first message on November 22, 2022, Erin asked Simon to pay an anaesthetist bill from their son’s surgery.

Erin: Can you please pay this? I paid a surgeon an out-of-pocket fee a couple of days ago.
Simon: Department of Human Services instructed me not to pay you anything for the kids from now on, so I cannot pay that, I’m afraid.

Erin responded that it wasn’t about paying her, but the anaesthetist.

Simon: That’s exactly the kind of thing they explicitly instructed me not to pay.

Simon said the department had told him not to pay for things he would have usually paid for, particularly school fees, to avoid paying twice.

“She was saying she’d seen other people, they end up double paying, and they get really upset, and it actually creates problems in the relationship. So it was on that basis,” Simon said.

Further text messages were also shown about pick-up arrangements for the children, play dates, flying lessons, and technicalities around running the livestream at church.

Erin ‘never actually asked’ about condition of lunch guests after meal, court hears: Trial day three, as it happened

Estranged husband Simon Patterson will continue providing evidence in the murder trial of Erin Patterson. Follow our live blog.

www.theage.com.au

 

[JLZ]

These can all be serious illnesses. Why would a person think that she had so much serious illness? I am guessing it didn't pan out, if Simon is not sure which illness it was and yet has a list of things that it could have been.


"Simon said Erin had also been told she may have suffered from another illness, but was unsure about whether it was chronic fatigue, lupus, motor neurone disease, or multiple sclerosis."

Erin ‘never actually asked’ about condition of lunch guests after meal, court hears: Trial day three, as it happened

Estranged husband Simon Patterson will continue providing evidence in the murder trial of Erin Patterson. Follow our live blog.

www.theage.com.au

It was like that for me. Sometimes I thought it was mainly hypochondria, but abnormal test results and the doctors said otherwise. It's something, we just don't know what it is. Investigations went on for more than a decade and I did eventually get a diagnosis and ongoing treatment. Lots of very different possibilities raised in the meantime.

 

[JLZ]

I am not sure why this matters. Either Erin did/does have cancer or she doesn't. Whether the family believed her or not seems insignificant to me.

The family all seemed like compassionate individuals who wanted to help others. Remembering that SP's parents were international missionaries when he and his brother were growing up.

The defence seem to be just butting heads about an insignificant thing.

Because the prosecution case is that Erin lied about having ovarian cancer to get the family at her lunch in order to poison them. If she said she had ovarian cancer when she didn't, that makes it look more like she intended to poison them. So the defence is saying she raised general health concerns in the way she typically did, and if ovarian cancer was mentioned it was only one possibility among others.

 

[drsleuth]

2m ago03.32 BST
Erin says she was given fentanyl at hospital, Simon tells court

The court has been shown messages between Erin and Simon on 31 July - two days after the lethal lunch.

At 12:30pm, Erin messages Simon:

They’re arguing with me now saying I might have to go to Dandenong... this doctor is not listening to me and being a bit mean about it.

Simon says this related to Erin wanting to be at the same hospital as her children.

At 12:53pm, Erin messages Simon:

I’m going to Clayton. Squeaky wheel.

At 1:03pm Simon replies:

Nice work. We’re on our way there now, too. Kids are in good spirits.

At 4:03pm Erin messages Simon:

I feel nauseous and sore tummy but they have given me ondansetron and saline and fentanyl.

Erin Patterson trial day four – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[MsMarple]

Text messages sent from Erin Patterson to Simon on July 31, two days after the lunch, are shown to the court.

Yesterday, the court heard about Erin's reluctance to go to hospital, and desire to have her children with her.

They read:

Erin: They're arguing with me now saying i might have to go to Dandenong..this doctor is not listening to me and being a bit mean about it

And about 20 minutes later:

Erin: I’m going to Clayton. Squeaky wheel

Mr Patterson says he and Erin had previously mentioned that the "best way to move a bureaucrat" was that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease".

Erin sent another message:

Erin: I feel nauseous and sore tummy but they gave me ondansetron and saline and fentanyl

Erin: My potassium is 2.4

To which Simon responded with :

Simon: Holy crap!

Simon: I only just saw your message now. Are they juicing you up full bore?

Simon tells to the court he did not know the normal range, but just assumed 2.4 was abnormal.

 

[drsleuth]

I'm calling BS on the Fentanyl & potassium level...........

Normal potassium levels are approx 3.5 - 5

Severe hypokalemia in the emergency department: A retrospective, single‐center study - PMC

Hypokalemia is one of the most common problems in the emergency department (ED). Severe hypokalemia, defined as a serum potassium level ≤2.5 mEq/L, is a relatively uncommon electrolyte disorder, and few studies have reported its prevalence, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Severe hypokalemia, defined as a serum potassium level ≤2.5 mEq/L, is a relatively uncommon electrolyte disorder, and few studies have reported its prevalence, etiology, symptoms, and management in the ED.

 

[SouthAussie]

Because the prosecution case is that Erin lied about having ovarian cancer to get the family at her lunch in order to poison them. If she said she had ovarian cancer when she didn't, that makes it look more like she intended to poison them. So the defence is saying she raised general health concerns in the way she typically did, and if ovarian cancer was mentioned it was only one possibility among others.

Yes, maybe. Though she did say that she needed to discuss "how to tell the children". So if there wasn't a firm diagnosis (in her telling) then what were they discussing?

"Mum may have this, or she may have that, or she may have something else entirely, or she may have nothing wrong" ?

What would be the point in worrying the children if they didn't 'know' what they were facing?

 

[drsleuth]

12.39pm

‘This doctor is not listening to me’: A text exchange from two hospitals​

By​

The jury is now being shown text messages between Erin and Simon around the time of the lunch, including one the day after the lunch where Erin told Simon she was arguing with hospital staff at Leongatha about being taken to Dandenong Hospital.

“This doctor is not listening to me and being a bit mean about it,” she told Simon.

Simon told the jury that he had called Dandenong Hospital to inform them that he would take the children there for examination, but had been advised to send them to Monash Children’s Hospital instead.

“I knew Erin was going to Dandenong, so I remember having a bit of a crack. I remember struggling to find a way to encourage them to change their mind,” Simon told the jury.

The following messages were sent after the family visited Monash Medical Centre.

Simon: We’re waiting to get seen, no symptoms, which is encouraging. We’re keen to see how you’re going. The kids have had numbing cream put on their hands and arms, preparing for the blood test.

Erin: I feel nauseous and sore tummy but they gave me [medication]. I’m in a room somewhere and keen to see kids when I can. [One of the children] hates blood tests.

Simon: Sounds like you’re well looked after. kids waiting for their tests. Not sure how long this will take.

Erin ‘never actually asked’ about condition of lunch guests after meal, court hears: Trial day three, as it happened

Estranged husband Simon Patterson will continue providing evidence in the murder trial of Erin Patterson. Follow our live blog.

www.theage.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

12.39pm

‘This doctor is not listening to me’: A text exchange from two hospitals​

By​

The jury is now being shown text messages between Erin and Simon around the time of the lunch, including one the day after the lunch where Erin told Simon she was arguing with hospital staff at Leongatha about being taken to Dandenong Hospital.

“This doctor is not listening to me and being a bit mean about it,” she told Simon.

Simon told the jury that he had called Dandenong Hospital to inform them that he would take the children there for examination, but had been advised to send them to Monash Children’s Hospital instead.

“I knew Erin was going to Dandenong, so I remember having a bit of a crack. I remember struggling to find a way to encourage them to change their mind,” Simon told the jury.

The following messages were sent after the family visited Monash Medical Centre.

Simon: We’re waiting to get seen, no symptoms, which is encouraging. We’re keen to see how you’re going. The kids have had numbing cream put on their hands and arms, preparing for the blood test.

Erin: I feel nauseous and sore tummy but they gave me [medication]. I’m in a room somewhere and keen to see kids when I can. [One of the children] hates blood tests.

Simon: Sounds like you’re well looked after. kids waiting for their tests. Not sure how long this will take.

Erin ‘never actually asked’ about condition of lunch guests after meal, court hears: Trial day three, as it happened

Estranged husband Simon Patterson will continue providing evidence in the murder trial of Erin Patterson. Follow our live blog.

www.theage.com.au

Seriously, wouldn't you want the children's father to take them to the best and most suitable hospital for them?

Or would you want them where you are so you can get attention from everyone? And maybe control what the children may be saying?


Remembering this from 2023 ....

She said she was at the hospital with her children “discussing the food hydrator” when her estranged husband, Simon Patterson, asked: “Is that what you used to poison them?”

Victorian woman at centre of suspected mushroom poisoning says she also went to hospital after eating meal

Erin Patterson tells police she bought the fungi from a supermarket chain and an Asian grocery store

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

Seriously, wouldn't you want the children's father to take them to the best and most suitable hospital for them?

Or would you want them where you are so you can get attention from everyone? And maybe control what the children may be saying?

For Erin it seems , it's all about Erin .So self centered IMO

 

[Detechtive]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/inside-the-courtroom-mushroom-cook-erin-patterson-faces-court-for-day-4-of-murder-trial/live-coverage/414947665965cf975a9016b62f1861a2

 

[MrJ]

the fentanyl and potassium things seem a bit suspicious, I'm not a doctor and I'm a bit biased since I believe a lot of the evidence doesn't paint her in a particularly good light IMO. Was this before she checked out against medical advice? JMO

 

[Detechtive]

..The financial abuse and losing control of Simon (When he put in a government document) that they were separated...seems like a pretty good motive to me at this point.. IMO.

View attachment 583102

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/inside-the-courtroom-mushroom-cook-erin-patterson-faces-court-for-day-4-of-murder-trial/live-coverage/414947665965cf975a9016b62f1861a2

 

[SouthAussie]

the fentanyl and potassium things seem a bit suspicious, I'm not a doctor and I'm a bit biased since I believe a lot of the evidence doesn't paint her in a particularly good light IMO. Was this before she checked out against medical advice? JMO

Seems that fentanyl is like morphine, but 50 to 100 times stronger!

Given for extreme pain.

Fentanyl DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse

Offers basic facts about the synthetic opioid Fentanyl including how it is abused, its effect on the brain, and other health effects.

nida.nih.gov

 

[MsMarple]

The court hearing is coming to a close, but before the jury is let out of the room, Justice Beale makes a point to warn jurors about the coming weekend.

He notes "extensive media reporting" of the case and that they'll come into contact with people on the weekend who may know they're serving on jury and be "extremely interested" to talk to them about the case.

"You have to shut that conversation down," he says.

He also warned jurors against looking at media coverage online or in newspapers.

"You've got to ignore those things," he says

 

[JLZ]

Yes, maybe. Though she did say that she needed to discuss "how to tell the children". So if there wasn't a firm diagnosis (in her telling) then what were they discussing?

"Mum may have this, or she may have that, or she may have something else entirely, or she may have nothing wrong" ?

What would be the point in worrying the children if they didn't 'know' what they were facing?

I'm just saying it's crucially important, whether she told the family she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. IMO she absolutely did.

 

[Porky1]

Phrasing: "Substantial"

Witness: “She got a substantial inheritance of roughly $2m.”

Would anyone say,
"So-and-so got an insubstantial inheritance of two million dollars"?
Not too many, except maybe billionaires?

Not being critical of witness.
We often hear and read ppl saying things similar to this which seem redundant on their face.
Whether AUS$ like in this trial, US$, or other $, when it comes to figures, it's all relative isn't it?

And on the witness stand, just about everybody is nervous.

$2M 20 years ago was a significant in Australia. Average house price was probably $500k then.

 

[sunnybree]

She didn't have people over often for meals. So maybe she only had 4 good plates. If that was me, I'd make sure the guests got the good plates and I had the odd one. You don't give your guests chipped or different plates. You keep that for yourself. I would, anyway.

Agreed. I myself only have four nice large plates (my good crockery set is x 4). I envy you all your sizeable crockery collections

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago13.05 AEST
Simon suggests mediator for his and Erin’s communication

The jury is being shown further Signal messages between Simon and Erin.

On 6 December 2022, Simon writes to his estranged wife:

Hello Erin

Mum and Dad told me you asked them over to yours for a discussion yesterday, I understand there are two many issues. 1. How [our son] is going and 2. Finances for our kids.

I have read the messages you sent them in our Signal group chat since, and dad’s responses.

I am keen to talk to you about [our son] and how we can best work together to help him with where he’s at now, and for the future.

I am also keen to talk to you about the financial arrangements to try to come to an understanding and agreement between us.

Reading all the messages, the financial issues are very emotive now, and would likely be very difficult....

Three days later on 9 December Simon messages Erin:

I’ve learned more about the financial stuff this week and I think we can probably fairly easily sort that out, along the lines of what you’ve been messaging to mum and dad. I intend to ask a mediator to help you and me communicate about that

The children cannot be named in media reports for legal reasons.

Erin Patterson trial day four – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com