Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[Porky1]

rsbm.

I disagree. One of the consistent topics of discussion in this thread over the past couple of years is how could Erin have kept herself safe if she was serving tainted portions of food to her guests. The wrong person getting poisoned because they ate or drank from a dish meant for another is a standard trope of mystery fiction.

Well, now we know of a possible modus operandi. By using a different plate for herself, she would have visual certainty that there was no mix-up.

I agree but it sounds too obvious to be planned and later explained.

Iam sure she had some obvious marking or detail that she would recognise if she was making the poisonous and non-poisenous individual wellingtons.

 

[SouthAussie]

Hopefully, EP's medical records have been successfully subpoenaed. And it will be disclosed if she had been lying about her cancer diagnosis and other matters.


You must respond to a subpoena. Failing to respond to a subpoena can have serious consequences. It is considered to be ‘contempt of court’, and penalties can include a fine, jail time or both. In some circumstances, you can object to the subpoena.
How Do I Deal With a Subpoena for Medical Records?

 

[SouthAussie]

"Day four of the trial has wrapped up.

Here’s a recap of what the court heard today:

1. The court was shown text messages where Simon and Erin communicated about her “forgotten” invitation to her mother-in-law’s 70th birthday. Simon said at this point in time there was “tension” in Erin’s relationship with his parents and between the pair.

2. Simon told the court Erin had “struggled” with mental illness and postnatal depression after the birth of their first child.

3. Simon said his estranged wife “hates” hospitals as he was asked about her discharging herself from Leongatha hospital against medical advice.

During the trial, the court will finish at around 1pm on Fridays.

We’ll be back on Monday morning to live blog day five from 10.30am."

Erin Patterson trial day four – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[JBowie]

Hopefully, EP's medical records have been successfully subpoenaed. And it will be disclosed if she had been lying about her cancer diagnosis and other matters.

Is that still up for consideration? I thought that had been addressed in the opening statements:

Yesterday, Ms Patterson's lawyers conceded her cancer claim was a lie. [bbm]

Erin Patterson 'seemed' to love in-laws, estranged husband tells court

Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson appeared to have a loving relationship with her in-laws before they died after eating a poisonous beef Wellington she served them in her home, a court hears.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

15m ago13.11 AEST
Simon says at this point Erin was being “extremely aggressive” and he believed a mediator would help the pair communicate.

Mandy says “aggressive” is not a correct characterisation and says she was “upset”.

The cross-examination then turns to the disagreement over child support payments.

Simon says the advice from child support authorities was he would be paying child support and should not pay Erin additional payments outside of that.

Mandy says child support payments of $38 a month over a year is “something less than $500”.

Simon replies “absolutely” and agrees it would not cover their children’s school fees.

He says on this date he didn’t know his required child support payment would only be $38.

12m ago04.14 BST
The court has adjourned for the weekend.

During the trial, the court will finish at around 1pm on Fridays.

Justice Christopher Beale KC tells the jurors that over the weekend they may see people who know they are on the jury who may be “extremely interested to chat to you about the case”.

“You have to shut that conversation down,” he says.

Beale reminds the jurors his instructors from earlier about not searching for any information about the case online or in newspapers.

“You’ve got to ignore those things,” he says.

He tells the jurors to “have a good weekend and come back refreshed”.

“I’ll only say this to you once. Switch off.”

8m ago04.18 BST
Day four of the trial has wrapped up.

Here’s a recap of what the court heard today:

1. The court was shown text messages where Simon and Erin communicated about her “forgotten” invitation to her mother-in-law’s 70th birthday. Simon said at this point in time there was “tension” in Erin’s relationship with his parents and between the pair.

2. Simon told the court Erin had “struggled” with mental illness and postnatal depression after the birth of their first child.

3. Simon said his estranged wife “hates” hospitals as he was asked about her discharging herself from Leongatha hospital against medical advice.

We’ll be back on Monday morning to live blog day five from 10.30am.

Thanks for following along.

Erin Patterson trial day four – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[sunnybree]

Side note: Does anyone else think that payment of $40 a month in child support is sufficient when considering school fees? $40 a month is nothing; it kind of makes sense in a coparenting scenario (depending on incomes) where they might be close to 50/50, but then they should be splitting the fees at least. I can see it would piss Erin off, although it can also be argued that an agreement to go to mediation is evidence of wanting to sort it out, as opposed to taking revenge via mass poisoning.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is that still up for consideration? I thought that had been addressed in the opening statements:

Yesterday, Ms Patterson's lawyers conceded her cancer claim was a lie. [bbm]

Erin Patterson 'seemed' to love in-laws, estranged husband tells court

Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson appeared to have a loving relationship with her in-laws before they died after eating a poisonous beef Wellington she served them in her home, a court hears.

www.abc.net.au

Oh, that's right. I was just thinking on why the defence were hammering Simon about 'did EP tell the lunch party that she definitely had cancer, or did she say that it was a possibility only'.

I guess I am back to the defence just trying to discredit Simon's recall. And it was absolutely insignificant cross examination.

 

[SouthAussie]

Side note: Does anyone else think that payment of $40 a month in child support is sufficient when considering school fees? $40 a month is nothing; it kind of makes sense in a coparenting scenario (depending on incomes) where they might be close to 50/50, but then they should be splitting the fees at least. I can see it would piss Erin off, although it can also be argued that an agreement to go to mediation is evidence of wanting to sort it out, as opposed to taking revenge via mass poisoning.

I personally think it is all about EP's larger income, possibly income coming from jointly owned properties. And income that she may have received the totality of.

If that is the case, Child Support would consider that Simon already contributed his portion of the income from jointly owned properties. (Of which we know there are at least two, as per testimony yesterday.)

Child Support are not going to make him pay a pittance if he is not already contributing in some other significant way.

imo

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I think this will be all over finances, remembering her estranged husband could have been next on the casualty list, doesn't look like any love lost there

No mention of friends, acquaintances, etc. at this stage

The interest will be when we hear from lone survivor Ian Wilkinson

Did she eat some of the meal? If so, there must have been a prepared one without the mushrooms?

 

[JBowie]

I guess I am back to the defence just trying to discredit Simon's recall. And it was absolutely insignificant cross examination.

We are not present of course and rely on reporters, but based on what has been printed I have to agree. If I were a jury member I'd be thinking "Where is all this going?"

 

[MrJ]

Can I just say I really appreciate this forum and the great conversations we've been having throughout this case and the trial. It's great to read such varied opinions and it's one of the reasons I enjoy using the internet.

Agreed @Scooby-Doo it will be very interesting hearing Ian's testimony. Suspect it will be pretty damning JMO

 

[Kemug]

I'm sorry I just can't agree that Erin is or was in any way physically attractive. Not that it matters. I just find that hard to move past.

RSBM
Way back in the beginning there was a photo of young Erin, and she was very very attractive.

 

[Kemug]

But not on any planet would she be considered by her past or present physical looks "attractive" - let alone "extremely pretty". Just not at all reality based.

But did you see the other photo of her in @SouthAussie's attachment? That's the one I was referring to.

 

[Corina]

So if these were individual portions, was there one already prepared for Simon?...

 

[Detechtive]

Hopefully, EP's medical records have been successfully subpoenaed. And it will be disclosed if she had been lying about her cancer diagnosis and other matters.


You must respond to a subpoena. Failing to respond to a subpoena can have serious consequences. It is considered to be ‘contempt of court’, and penalties can include a fine, jail time or both. In some circumstances, you can object to the subpoena.
How Do I Deal With a Subpoena for Medical Records?

I heard it said yesterday in the opening that she did not have a cancer Diagnosis, because in Victoria, all cancer diagnoses are recorded on a database. Her absence on that database is apparently proof.

 

[You'reNicked]

'Mr Patterson said his wife was reluctant to have her kids checked out by doctors and did not want to "scare" them following previous bad experiences'. (www.abc.net.au)

It seems very strange to me that a parent who has, up until this point of the testimony, been painted as someone who is extremely devoted to the health and wellbeing of their children - and who had been told they were possibly poisoned - would not want them to stay under observation for at least as long as it took the Wilkinsons and Pattersons to become ill (which was some 11 hours after they had consumed the deadly meal, as I recall reading yesterday).

Yes, hospitals can be especially frightening for children - but surely the idea that the young ones might be very ill or possibly die, would far outweigh any anxiety a parent might feel at being under observation for another day or so?

 

[Detechtive]

'Mr Patterson said his wife was reluctant to have her kids checked out by doctors and did not want to "scare" them following previous bad experiences'. (www.abc.net.au)

It seems very strange to me that a parent who has, up until this point of the testimony, been painted as someone who is extremely devoted to the health and wellbeing of their children - and who had been told they were possibly poisoned - would not want them to stay under observation for at least as long as it took the Wilkinsons and Pattersons to become ill (which was some 11 hours after they had consumed the deadly meal, as I recall reading yesterday).

Yes, hospitals can be especially frightening for children - but surely the idea of having the young ones die, would

Pure speculation: Maybe she didn't want anyone interviewing them, or perhaps there is a more sinister reason she didn't want them to have medical checks. IMO.
One of the children is in high school, they aren't small children.

 

[Detechtive]

Side note: Does anyone else think that payment of $40 a month in child support is sufficient when considering school fees? $40 a month is nothing; it kind of makes sense in a coparenting scenario (depending on incomes) where they might be close to 50/50, but then they should be splitting the fees at least. I can see it would piss Erin off, although it can also be argued that an agreement to go to mediation is evidence of wanting to sort it out, as opposed to taking revenge via mass poisoning.

It is nothing, but, the child support agency wouldn't give her that low unless like someone said up thread their contributions were roughly equal.


Her children were in school. She was wealthy. She didn't have to work, but she could have. I believe capacity comes into the calculation. Should Simon sustain her lifestyle so she doesn't have to work when the children are older? We don't have alimony in Australia.
Besides, it sounds like she hoarded her wealth from Simon prior to 2019, in terms of only having titles in her name. They probably had rental incomes, which she was assessed on.

 

[JLZ]

Oh, that's right. I was just thinking on why the defence were hammering Simon about 'did EP tell the lunch party that she definitely had cancer, or did she say that it was a possibility only'.

I guess I am back to the defence just trying to discredit Simon's recall. And it was absolutely insignificant cross examination.

Here's another version of what defence counsel said:

Mandy told the jury there was evidence that would come out during the trial that was not in dispute, including where Erin lived, that she was a devoted mother, comfortable financially, generous to the wider Patterson family, that she had had a disagreement with former husband Simon over child support, and that she had never been diagnosed with cancer.
Alleged mushroom cook didn’t ingest death caps, ‘no record’ she had cancer, jury told: Trial day one, as it happened , BBM.

I wonder what his actual words were.

Edit: My point is, I suggest that in his opening address, Mandy did not admit that Erin lied about having cancer, but said that it was not in dispute that she did not have cancer, and that some reporters overinterpreted what he said. It's just a guess; I don't know.

 

[You'reNicked]

From details of the trial so far, I was under the impression that the Patterson's children were extremely young (I was guessing under ten years old).

However, internet research on flight schools in Australia suggests that these organisations generally recommend that children be 14 years old before they commence learning to fly.

Does anyone know more about when children start flying lessons in Australia?