Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[JLZ]

Imagine if Simon had gone to the lunch and hadn't been poisoned. He would probably have been an alternative suspect. He wasn't the cook, but he had a better financial motive.

If Erin is the poisoner and that was the plan, there would have been another 'innocent' beef wellington. As he didn't turn up, it would have been available to feed to the children as proof that Erin didn't know that the meal was poisoned.

 

[You'reNicked]

From details of the trial so far, I was under the impression that the Patterson's children were extremely young (I was guessing under ten years old).

However, internet research on flight schools in Australia suggests that these organisations generally recommend that children be 14 years old before they commence learning to fly.

Does anyone know more about when children start flying lessons in Australia?

Oh, I see Dehtective has shed light on my unexpressed questions regarding the ages of the children when he/she replied to my previous post). Thanks! As I thought - they are not tiny tots.

 

[Kemug]

I also found the emotional videos of the kids with the grandparents not quite the flex the defence thought it would be. It would have made the jury very empathetic for Simon and his parents, rather than perhaps trying to make them feel empathy for Erin, or whatever the hell he's trying to do.

To be fair, he doesn't have a lot to work with.

So little in fact that it's hard to see how the trial will last the expected 5 - 6 weeks.

 

[Kemug]

I love the sass!

Yes, Simon doesn't just lie down and let people walk all over him. I think when they married, Erin thought he would.

 

[Old Soul]

Indeed - when I read that, it did make me wonder if she'd been micro-dosing the children with tiny amounts of poison for some bizarre reason.

Also, in general, why was she adding dried mushrooms to the children's brownie recipe? Are mushrooms supposed to be particularly nutritious?

Was EP using various human beings as experiment guinea pigs in her mushroom experiments ?

Maybe she did intentionally add powdered mushrooms to the victims' food but with a completely different intention?

For example, if she was the sort that 'believed in unicorns', perhaps she was studying ancient lore or witchcrafts etc and believed she was performing some type of beneficial ritual, not intended to kill or harm, say something like casting a magic spell using certain ingredients. Maybe to win them over to her point of view regarding the break up and division of property or suchlike? At least that type of explanation would make some sense?

JMO MOO

Perhaps she was using the children as Guinea pigs to test if they could taste (non poisonous) mushroom powder in a variety of food items such as muffins.

She may have had intentions to bake a poisonous cake, slice or batch of muffins to give to intended victims but happened across beef Wellington as the most convincing dish to conceal the death cap mushrooms in.

 

[Bats]

Imagine if Simon had gone to the lunch and hadn't been poisoned. He would probably have been an alternative suspect. He wasn't the cook, but he had a better financial motive.

If Erin is the poisoner and that was the plan, there would have been another 'innocent' beef wellington. As he didn't turn up, it would have been available to feed to the children as proof that Erin didn't know that the meal was poisoned.

... and what plate would that extra Beef Wellington have been served on?

 

[Kemug]

Well, I said it before, and I'll say it again - the only way I can see Erin not guilty of murder and attempted murder is if she didn't actually intend to kill them, but "just" to make them suffer. It seems particularly evil when they were all such good people and apparently went to enormous lengths to be nice to her and include her. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Erin did receive an invitation to the 70th party, but chose to lie about it. Goodness knows how much damage she's done to her children. Perhaps she is actually insane.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh, I see Dehtective has shed light on my unexpressed questions regarding the ages of the children when he/she replied to my previous post). Thanks! As I thought - they are not tiny tots.

There is also this. The eldest child must be 16, or approaching 16.



Mushroom cook husband Simon Patterson reveals a painful story no one should have to tell

 

[JLZ]

... and what plate would that extra Beef Wellington have been served on?

I just can't get interested in the plates.

 

[katydid23]

As per news article:

The leftovers collected from Erin Patterson’s bin and transported to Monash Medical Centre and the Royal Botanic Gardens were tested and did not show any sign of death cap mushrooms, the jury heard.

IIRC, they DID find traces of the Death Caps in the dehydrator she took to the Tip. Am I right?

If so, then not finding any toxins in her leftovers in the bin are a big problem for her, imo.

I think the jury will wonder if she made two separate Wellingtons. One for her guests and the other for her and her kids. The police only founnd the leftovers from her kid's plates because she tossed out the toxic leftovers somewhere else right after her guests left, imo.

I'd toss that stuff out 1st thing. She probably hoped it wouldn't come back to her.


ETA:[wiki]
Rogers told the court that police forensically examined the dehydrator unit and found Patterson's fingerprints and traces of amanita phalloides mushroom toxins; which was also detected in the urine samples of the male guests.

​

 

[katydid23]

Six weeks - so until mid-June. BTW June 3 is the date set for the trial of Donna Adelson, the wealthy Florida woman who is accused of conspiring to hire a hit man to kill her son-in-law and I'll be following that, too. I'm fascinated by women who don't fit the "sugar-and-spice-and-everything-nice" mold.

Yup, Donna is certainly not 'Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice'...That should be an interesting trial.

 

[katydid23]

Ah thanks.

See what concerns me about this is that unless there were traces of DC mushrooms verified in EP's beef wellington, how do we know for certain she hasn't been set up / framed and one of the desserts was poisoned.

I could accept that more easily if there was not traces of Death Caps on the dehydrator that EP took to the tip. She is on CCTV dumping it.

I'm not sure how someone framed her for that?

If there's people out there who knew for sure she was drying out foraged mushrooms and even playing around with drying out DC mushrooms and toying with the idea of poisons herself, they'd know she'd be blamed.

I seem to recall it was said EP had lodgers or paying guests maybe? There could have been other adults in the environment? Or there could have maybe been some unidentified persons with malicious intent out to get her for reasons we don't know about. Was the cake store bought or home made?

Am just putting some far out ideas here... it's not looking good for EP is my main thought!
JMO MOO

Rogers told the court that police forensically examined the dehydrator unit and found Patterson's fingerprints and traces of amanita phalloides mushroom toxins; which was also detected in the urine samples of the male guests.

2023 Leongatha mushroom poisoning - Wikipedia​

 

[katydid23]

I'm still holding a space that it could have been accidental and that some people are so panicked and obstinate that even in such horrific circumstances, they double down on their denial and cover up which makes it a thousand times worse for them and then no-one would ever believe them.

I don't think it could be accidental because she would have been poisoned as well, imo. And probably her Labrador too.

Maybe not her kids because she would have been sick that 1st night and never given them the left overs.

I just don't see any reasonable scenario where it was accidental. She admitted that she foraged the 'shrooms herself. If it was accidental and she thought they were good, safe mushrooms, why not humble brag to her guests that she is serving local mushrooms she foraged herself?

She kept that a secret for a reason, imo.

 

[Klclevi]

If you look at this in the most simplistic of ways- surely if you were going to such an effort to cook that meal you would not take any chances with mushrooms- alot of people do not even like them- I would have been asking the guests beforehand if any dietary requirements if it was me .. especially when they did not come to their home for meals very often? Surely she would have asked Simons aunt and uncle .
To use something you potentially picked , powdered, whatever she did, its a massive massive risk of someone getting sick from that.
Does anyone know the circumstances of Simons sicknesses? Surely that still has to be a factor here. Not to mention the kids - I mean why would you bother putting powdered mushroom in a brownie - thats just dumb. It makes me think was she even slowly poisoning her own kids ? It is not inconceivable as much as I hate to say it.

 

[Klclevi]

I don't think it could be accidental because she would have been poisoned as well, imo. And probably her Labrador too.

Maybe not her kids because she would have been sick that 1st night and never given them the left overs.

I just don't see any reasonable scenario where it was accidental. She admitted that she foraged the 'shrooms herself. If it was accidental and she thought they were good, safe mushrooms, why not humble brag to her guests that she is serving local mushrooms she foraged herself?

She kept that a secret for a reason, imo.

I completely agree with you.

 

[ch_13]

IIRC, they DID find traces of the Death Caps in the dehydrator she took to the Tip. Am I right?

If so, then not finding any toxins in her leftovers in the bin are a big problem for her, imo.

I think the jury will wonder if she made two separate Wellingtons. One for her guests and the other for her and her kids. The police only find the leftovers from her kid's plates because she tossed out the toxic leftovers somewhere else right after her guests left, imo.

I believe in opening statements they said she made individual Wellingtons. So, more like this...

Instead of this.

In theory it would allow her more precise control over what ingredients goes into each portion and who gets it. However, her legal team could also argue that it was all an error. She ran out of mushroom mince while assembling the Wellingtons and had to make a second batch. That's why some had the death caps and others didn't.

But also, it does make me wonder... Why did she claim that she scraped the mushrooms off the kids' portions? Why not omit mushrooms entirely from the two mini-Wellingtons she prepped for them, since she knew they didn't like them.

 

[Sjöberg]

I've been more passively following this case since the beginning and I'm getting a pretty strong impression of some MH/personality background, that is hard to pin down and even harder to interpret. I do think Erin is unwell and has been increasingly unwell for a long time. Not unwell in the sense of "not guilty of her actions", but also not unwell in the sense of "just born evil and cruel", instead something in the grey area between the Hollywood-style black-and-white world.

I feel like she is the type of person who is not likeable and not an innocent victim, but who still is a victim of her mental health as well. Think of some stubborn hoarders who get angry at you and refuse to get help or some middle-aged ladies with alcocol problems who beat their kids while they are also beaten up by their husbands. Not that she has any or that specific background of these examples, but the general vibe of this. I don't think she is fully ok in the head and I do think she has been struggling for a long time (and making other peoples lives difficult in the proccess, too). I also don't think this should get her out of murder charges nor from the quilty verdic, if intent is shown.

Don't get me wrong, the people who got poisoned are clearly victims here. I am moreso just interested if anyone else is seeing the type of character that I am and if anyone can pin it down better. Something about her somehow really reminds me of some mums with Munchousen by proxy and such.

 

[Kemug]

I just had an awful thought! Insane or not, would she have possibly ever considered killing the kids too, for the sympathy? Sorry, haven't even thought this through!

 

[MrJ]

Completely agree but as someone above mentioned, I don't think the intention was to poison her kids but for them to be her 'guinea pigs' in the sense of seeing how to put mushrooms in food in such a way that would be undetected. Perfecting her method maybe? I don't know, you might say it's premeditated if she's moving up from muffins to beef Wellingtons. JMO

 

[MrJ]

sorry double post forgot to quote @Klclevi