Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #12

[Heyerdahl]

You could be correct, but I don't think- and just my opinion, that the 'mistress' would admit to having an affair as has been reported, if it was not of a sexual nature. Wouldn't you be more likely to come out and clearly state you weren't having a sexual affair, if you were merely just close emotionally? Just my thoughts. It seems more likely to be a sexual affair. To put a cat among the pidgeons though...who know if it was an 'accepted affair' by his wife.. no theory, no fact..just a whatif. So many conflicting reports..they were virtually estranged to they were so close and loved each other dearly.

Perhaps the media were after sensation regarding 'the mistress' and 'the (wicked) cheating husband', trying to crack the case, sell more Sunday papers. I mean, a reporter could have asked TM 'Were / are you especially close to GBC?' And she could (quite truthfully) have replied 'Yes'. Bingo! They must have been having a sexual affair - or must they?? You see, if ABC understood her hubbie well, she might have realised that his very close friendship(s) with TM (et al) didn't mean that G didn't love her and the girls. Although I'm sure all the 'hot goss' would have made her squirm with embarrassment and even chagrin at times, she probably would have been able to accept his behaviour, knowing that the liasions were not of a sexual nature. It's really not so uncommon for many men to have good platonic female friends while married. In some cases, it actually helps to keep the marriage going. (Just playing devil's advocate here).

 

[Berry]

Unsure but has it been established that Allison was actually murdered on the night/morning she went missing?

Yes Police said she was dead before being dumped.


http://www.qt.com.au/story/2012/05/04/happy-and-successful-a-portrait-of-allison/

Police now know the 43-year-old former beauty queen and business woman was murdered before her body was dumped in a creek north-east of Ipswich.

 

[Liadan]

The affair was common knowledge in the Brookfield community -I wouldn't think any guy would stay with a women for 'friendship' only. They are looking for a thrill and something to fuel their ego.The whole premise of an 'affair' is associated with a sexual connotation. Work colleagues is often a term people used for work friendships with men and even this can be construed - its a fine line when women and men work side by side. But a ladies man is going to be acting on impulse and think about consequences later.... much later.

There is not a doubt in my mind that GBC and TM's relationship was about ladies man who got the biggest thrill out of his conquest and TM was flattered and took advantage of the perks that went with being with the BOSS. I bet the flames have cooled considerably for both of them now. Murder is mot something relationships built from an affair can cope with - thinking Scott Peterson and Amber Frey.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Perhaps the media were after sensation regarding 'the mistress' and 'the (wicked) cheating husband', trying to crack the case, sell more Sunday papers. I mean, a reporter could have asked TM 'Were / are you especially close to GBC?' And she could (quite truthfully) have replied 'Yes'. Bingo! They must have been having a sexual affair - or must they?? You see, if ABC understood her hubbie well, she might have realised that his very close friendship(s) with TM (et al) didn't mean that G didn't love her and the girls. Although I'm sure all the 'hot goss' would have made her squirm with embarrassment and even chagrin at times, she probably would have been able to accept his behaviour, knowing that the liasions were not of a sexual nature. It's really not so uncommon for many men to have good platonic female friends while married. In some cases, it actually helps to keep the marriage going. (Just playing devil's advocate here).

http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/gerard-baden-clay-cheated-on-his-late-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226361117032 (don't think she answered any questions to reporters)

I have already said you could be correct. But IMO, it seems more likely that the affair was sexual in nature and not just a close plutonic relationship. Again I would think that given its been reported as a sexual affair, then I would think you would be more likely to come out and declare it not to be. Maybe the courier mail is sensationalizing, but I don't think it appears that way- and no I don't know fact. It was reported she admitted having an affair to police. I don't think you call it that if its a plutonic relationship. But I am not going to argue it. I stated IMO. I am not one to have just jumped on the bandwagon of sensational rumours on here. I was stating what appears to be fact in reply to a statement that it may not have been a sexual affair. And very aware that married men can have plutonic female friends. No argument to have here.

 

[Indromum]

HA HA Im back.....24 hours in timeout purgatory gave me time to reflect on things......especially my own actions

riddle me this Batman..the chain theory does not hold weight....I think there is something in that for all of us!

Welcome back Greg...it was a cracking post! Sorry Kimster. I agree the chain theory is a bit wild...but I'm doing my shopping there tomorrow, so I'll ask the trolley boys if they know any different.

 

[Hawkins]

....also was unable to find any info to confirm whether or not he was qualified.

Those are the sorts of issues (assuming there is any truth to them) that lawyers from either side often want to clarify and obtain evidence about before proceedings. Sometimes there are pre-trial hearings to try and prevent evidence of these sorts of claims being raised. If there is an assertion that a person has acted dishonestly in obtaining employment, then that may go to character. In a homicide trial the accused is unlikely to be giving evidence so it would not be their credibility as a witness that is at issue. But if there were a manslaughter trial, say, then the accused may give evidence, if their lawyer is trying to establish a particular version of events. In that case, such evidence may be important. As discussed in an earlier post it's one of those issues that can be quite prejudicial to the accused, in that it can make them appear unreliable and untrustworthy in the eyes of a jury, but not particularly probative in that it does not provide evidence of a killing. So trying to lead it as anything other than evidence as to the character of a witness is fraught.

All sorts of other forensic investigations can also take place in the course of matters such as this. Forensic accountants may be asked to go through large quantities of documents and electronic records for instance. Mechanical engineers may be engaged to test vehicles in much more detail than the lay person may suspect. Paint composition tests, soil composition tests and many other procedures could also be requested.

 

[Liadan]

wondering if his Modus Operandi with affairs was limited to RE agents - one would think not since TM originated as a customer-<modsnip> Would be interesting to see the numbers on selling property in the area who have had liaisons.

 

[spratsmum]

I find myself only *completely* believing what Supt Ainsworth has stated in the press conferences to be accurate...otherwise unless the media specifically mention his or other police names in reference to details given to them...

i wonder if Alison was picked up from the hairdressers or if she drove herself - perhaps she never got home that night. It would seem to me to be easier to overcome someone sitting in a car seat and strangle them, then someone standing up. Perhaps he could have overcome her with something to put her to sleep. Her body would then have been in the front car seat. Waiting until traffic has died down to dump the body would bring in a two car theory, because not many people would want to sit in a car with a 3hour old cadaver. Back to the perpetrator being GBC, he rings Dad and tells him what has happened, Dad says wait a while, formulates what to do, Scout Camp area obvious and and then he meets GBC and they are seen on cctv going through the roundabout, Dad twice and GBC once.

This theory depends on the little ones being out of the house, if they aren't who is looking after them when Mum and Dad are at Kenmore Village. Perhaps Grandma (EBC) is at their house, and the girls are taken after this event to sleep at Grandmas. I don't know the geography well, but that they may then involve at the roundabout GBC car with Allison's body, EBC in a car with the girls (do the snr Baden Clays only have one car) then NBC returning through the Brookfield roundabout to rendevouz with GBC and then GBC and NBC heading out and returning from Kholo Creek. If the BC snr only have one car perhaps the mysterious nlue car sighted at Kholo Creek belongs to a friend and hence the delay with the police, they are unsure or don't have enough evidence where everyone fits into the events of that night, so are dealing with working out the scenario so the correct people can be charged.

Returning also to Paul Tully theory of 5 people being charged - GBC, EBC, NBC and an unknown friend, getting close

 

[willough]

I think the delay in an arrest maybe because they can't easily establish a cause of death.
If she had been found sooner and had been axphyxiated the signs would have been easier to spot.
However if she was strangled and her hyoid bone broken that should still be obvious.
If they can't establish the cause of death their case is going to have to be based on more cicumstantial stuff, the fact the main suspect lawyered up and isn't talking can't be helping.
If you say nothing you can't contradict yourself.
IMO if he hadn't lawyered up he would have confessed by now.
Nothing I've read so far has ever made me doubt who the perp is.

Yep....Im on the thought train that if they cannot find cause of death, that would send the defense team into a frenzy....Their case being, if their is no cause of death, that nasty "S" word (that we know she didnt do) may be a possibility to them....She went for her walk, hitchhiked, got near the bridge and jumped. Though most living in the area feel she really couldnt have done that. Surely for the police to say "murder", then there must have been an undeniable fact to bring them to that.....Lets hope that fact is backed up with evidence.

 

[Detect]

Can someone tell me what the facts are relating to GBC's initial comments to QPS.

Did he say he had last seen his wife when she went for a walk at 10.00pm

or

Did he say he had last seen his wife watching the footy show when he went to bed at 10.00pm.

or

Did he say she went for a walk in the morning.

I can't seem to get a fix on when GBC alleges to have last saw his wife.

Any clarification??

 

[bearbear]

there was obviously something on the body or position of the body for the police to declare it very quickly as an unlawful homicide, before any forensics were carried out, and supt ainsworth said it had been declared an unlawful homicide quite early on in the investigation, interesting as he also said there were no signs of obvious trauma, and they ruled out suicide

 

[Majenta]

An interesting C21 promo video by GBC where he talks of attempting to create clones of himself but realises people have personalities of there own... arrogant much?

http://video.news.com.au/2228113769/Gerard-BadenClay-real-estate

 

[willough]

there was obviously something on the body or position of the body for the police to declare it very quickly as an unlawful homicide, before any forensics were carried out, and supt ainsworth said it had been declared an unlawful homicide quite early on in the investigation, interesting as he also said there were no signs of obvious trauma

I agree......and then I think of the comment "no visual signs of foul play"....

I am most curious about blood pooling (someone mentioned this the other day - that the blood pools) lets say when she was dumped, her head was lower that the rest of the body, would the blood pool to that area, creating a similar discolouration to what strangulation, may look like (the bruising)?

Then I think no....becaue she was dead before she was dumped....and the blood pools upon death....I wonder if the blood continues to pool for some time after death.

Maybe someone answered this already....and if so, sorry to bring it up....It's a bit ghoulish.

 

[Karo]

A primary school carnival would not be in bushland requiring undergrowth to be removed it would be an already cleared path, sorry to burst that theory.

Cross country courses generally are bushland and I would think, given the google map of the area around there, I am sure I saw it here today, it might require clearing some areas. They are primary school children, so snakes could be an issue.

 

[Liadan]

there was obviously something on the body or position of the body for the police to declare it very quickly as an unlawful homicide, before any forensics were carried out, and supt ainsworth said it had been declared an unlawful homicide quite early on in the investigation, interesting as he also said there were no signs of obvious trauma

The police are very measured in what they offer to the public simply because the less they diverge the less the people know. If someone close to the incident slips up and knows something about the murder that has not been divulged to the public at large - they are able to act on how that person knows that info.

This happened in the Michelle Beets murder. The killer divulged info to his wife that she could not have known if she wasn't told about the incident. So it looks like we will have to patient - it may take awhile but it is hard to remain silent about doing something so enormous as murder!
Here is the link for those who want to read
http://www.smh.com.au/national/husb...urdering-nurse-court-told-20111101-1mu6k.html

 

[Indromum]

I agree......and then I think of the comment "no visual signs of foul play"....

I am most curious about blood pooling (someone mentioned this the other day - that the blood pools) lets say when she was dumped, her head was lower that the rest of the body, would the blood pool to that area, creating a similar discolouration to what strangulation, may look like (the bruising)?

Then I think no....becaue she was dead before she was dumped....and the blood pools upon death....I wonder if the blood continues to pool for some time after death.

Maybe someone answered this already....and if so, sorry to bring it up....It's a bit ghoulish.

There was an article in the CM by a dude who specializes in the way blood pools in bodies after death. He stated sometime along the lines of they would know if she was moved after death because of this. Can anyone else find the article...I'm on my iPhone. I really wish I cut out all the articles now!

 

[bearbear]

I agree......and then I think of the comment "no visual signs of foul play"....

I am most curious about blood pooling (someone mentioned this the other day - that the blood pools) lets say when she was dumped, her head was lower that the rest of the body, would the blood pool to that area, creating a similar discolouration to what strangulation, may look like (the bruising)?

Then I think no....becaue she was dead before she was dumped....and the blood pools upon death....I wonder if the blood continues to pool for some time after death.

Maybe someone answered this already....and if so, sorry to bring it up....It's a bit ghoulish.

i agree about the blood pooling and possibly rigor mortis which sets in relatively quickly, so they could probably determine very quickly whether she died at the scene or not

 

[Thinking]

Yes...perhaps to try & break his "last saw her watching tv at 10pm/he went to bed" alibi.

But then what happens if one or both of their cars were spotted somewhere in between his 10pm - 7.30am time frame?? How to prove he was driving one of them??

Exactly. It worries me that the car has been seen (eg on camera at the roundabout) but how to prove he was driving? I wonder if this type of thing has contributed to the hold up in arrest etc. In court it has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt - they need more than just a sighting of the car. Frustrating.

 

[Thinking]

I would like to put another call out to Keyboredom - where are you? Please come back, your contributions are missed.

 

[willough]

There was an article in the CM by a dude who specializes in the way blood pools in bodies after death. He stated sometime along the lines of they would know if she was moved after death because of this. Can anyone else find the article...I'm on my iPhone. I really wish I cut out all the articles now!

That's right....That must have been where I read about it.....I must go back over that article and refresh my memory.

Thanxabunch Indromum