GUILTY Australia - Daniel Morcombe, 13, Woombye, QLD, 7 Dec 2003 - #2

[Fuskier]

Not sure if this is already been linked, but here is the sentencing

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/sentencing/2014/cowan.pdf

Thank you for this post Drsleuth. I enjoyed reading every paragraph of Justice Atkinson's sentence.
She explained the sentence limitations available to her which was helpful IMO.

She spoke collectively for all of us in paragraph 35, page 3:
"...to make it clear that the community, acting through the Court, denounces the sort of conduct in which you were involved;
and to protect the Queensland community from the offender".

 

[Fuskier]

Tom Malone ‏@malonetj 1h
The @60mins team are working through the weekend on #Morcombe special and I've just seen part 1. Bruce and Denise = strength and dignity.@malonetj @60mins

 

[ozazure]

It's a bit concerning that the police have now had their whole plan exposed to the public in how they went about getting his confession as I think this might compromise them next time.
I am so pleased it is over and that we never see this happen again but I have a sneaking suspicion that he has done this many more times than we will ever know about.

Karo, it is fascinating to see how the undercover plan worked. Both from the lengths they'll go to the vulnerabilities of Cowan's psychology that made him fall for it. I would too say it is a shame to forewarn future criminals, but truly, with these people, I think the part of the brain that thinks things through is not fully pinging. I think about Jill Meagher's killer, who was done in by mobile phone pings, citilink and all the cctv on a busy retail street. He was out to rape and kill that night and even if he knew about those things he wasn't capable of planning around them. I think Cowan is dim and damaged in the truest sense and even if he knew of 100 similar plots his desire to be accepted and make easy money would win out. Might or might not get caught - that thought is merely a speed bump they pass over on the way to what they really want.

 

[Fuskier]

Cowan taunted prisoners in solitary while he walked the corridors in Brisbane's Arthur Gorrie Correctional centre while he was behind bars there.

"He was a smart a---," the inmate said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...et-inmate-says

Thanks for this link Isisrising. It's an excellent link IMO as it provides access to several videos covering the trial, conviction, sentencing, prison, police, etc ...

 

[Fuskier]

Daniel Morcombe Child Safety Curriculum

The Department of Education, Training and Employment, in partnership with the Daniel Morcombe Foundation, has developed the Daniel Morcombe Child Safety Curriculum.

The curriculum consists of classroom lessons across three phases of learning: Prep - Year 2 (Early Years), Years 3 - 6 and Years 7 - 9 (Junior Secondary).

The curriculum is available to all Queensland schools and aims to teach children about personal safety and awareness, including cybersafety and phone safety, by focusing on three key safety messages: Recognise, React and Report.

The curriculum was developed in consultation with Bruce and Denise Morcombe, the Commissioner for Children and Young People and Child Guardian and representatives from the Department of Education, Training and Employment, Queensland Police Service, and the Department of Communities, Child Safety and Disability Services, as well as experts in child safety education.

http://education.qld.gov.au/parents/school-life/child-safety-curriculum.html

Just thinking about the Junior Curriculum program for children aged between 7-9 years of age, add 20 years. Most of them would be 27 or above, some would be trained professionals eligible to sit on the QLD Parole Board in twenty years time!!!JUSTICE! Children in QLD currently aged 12-13 years would be 32-33 years when Cowan's parole comes up. Good investment in the future. Justice should continue IMO.

 

[janeom74]

Cowan taunted prisoners in solitary while he walked the corridors in Brisbane's Arthur Gorrie Correctional centre while he was behind bars there.

"He was a smart a---," the inmate said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...et-inmate-says

Thanks for this link Isisrising. It's an excellent link IMO as it provides access to several videos covering the trial, conviction, sentencing, prison, police, etc ...

Cowans behaviour reeks of psychopathy to me. Arrogant, unable to grasp any kind of emotional tie to his victims and their families, inability to understand the weight of his actions and a gross carelessness. I'm not a judge but I do understand basic psychology. His nature is alarming, but it's typical of psychopaths. They simply cannot feel. Which begs the question: how did he marry a woman and father three children? Why would he waste his time, when most of his life he's lived a self indulgent existence wallowing in his own perverted desires.

I would really like to see his case file released, particularly for the earlier convictions in 1989 and 1993. It would be interesting to see the psychologists in depth reflection and writings on Cowan and why on earth the judge felt he could possibly be rehabilitated. A bit more insight beyond the newspaper articles would be sufficient. I'm a firm believer in freedom of information and I think that this guys privacy should be totally disregarded - the more we know, the more we understand.

 

[Seabreeze1]

Irsrising just a question for you, do Psychopaths want acceptance by peers? Was just wondering how it ties Into his happiness at being part of the fake gang.

 

[MsAnais]

Irsrising just a question for you, do Psychopaths want acceptance by peers? Was just wondering how it ties Into his happiness at being part of the fake gang.

Good question, Seabreeze. Wanting peer acceptance isn't usually something that psychopaths care about at all - they are only concerned with themselves usually. But saying that, human beings are complex and I'm always a bit loathe to rule something in or out because of a psychiatric diagnosis.

And remembering, we don't know that Cowan has been diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder (modern-day psychopathy). Although I do agree he fits many of the criteria.

A psychopathic personality would enjoy the underworld status and benefits of being in a powerful gang. But he genuinely sounds like he enjoyed the brotherly comraderie.

<modsnip>

JMO.:seeya:

 

[MsAnais]

Cowans behaviour reeks of psychopathy to me. Arrogant, unable to grasp any kind of emotional tie to his victims and their families, inability to understand the weight of his actions and a gross carelessness. I'm not a judge but I do understand basic psychology. His nature is alarming, but it's typical of psychopaths. They simply cannot feel. Which begs the question: how did he marry a woman and father three children? Why would he waste his time, when most of his life he's lived a self indulgent existence wallowing in his own perverted desires.

I would really like to see his case file released, particularly for the earlier convictions in 1989 and 1993. It would be interesting to see the psychologists in depth reflection and writings on Cowan and why on earth the judge felt he could possibly be rehabilitated. A bit more insight beyond the newspaper articles would be sufficient. I'm a firm believer in freedom of information and I think that this guys privacy should be totally disregarded - the more we know, the more we understand.

BBM There was obviously a pay-off of some kind for him to marry a woman. Who knows precisely what it is? A valuable façade of normalcy? An attempt to convince himself that he was 'normal'? A readily available sexual partner whenever he wanted one? I suspect it's the latter, really. He's indiscriminate in his sexual preferences as we know....:facepalm:

And the children may well not have been planned. They may have just 'come' along. It doesn't sound like he's been involved in the eldest two's lives. He's hardly Father of the Year. They probably don't mean much to him at all.

 

[Seabreeze1]

Good question, Seabreeze. Wanting peer acceptance isn't usually something that psychopaths care about at all - they are only concerned with themselves usually. But saying that, human beings are complex and I'm always a bit loathe to rule something in or out because of a psychiatric diagnosis.

And remembering, we don't know that Cowan has been diagnosed as having antisocial personality disorder (modern-day psychopathy). Although I do agree he fits many of the criteria.

A psychopathic personality would enjoy the underworld status and benefits of being in a powerful gang. But he genuinely sounds like he enjoyed the brotherly comraderie.

<modsnip>


JMO.:seeya:

Thanks that is some great info. Do you believe that some people are just born evil without any other factors coming into play? i.e upbringings etc?

 

[ozazure]

Is he really arrogant? He appears weak to me in the tapes we've seen. Sure he will give **** to prisoners behind bars he will never have to rub shoulders with, whom the guards protect him from, his victims are kids, and if he's to be believed (he's not) he bit off more than he could chew with 13 year old Daniel, compared to those poor other, much younger, children.

When confronted with evidence on his two prior crimes he folded like a deck of cards, that same day I think, both times. He only had the wherewithal to withstand accusations over Daniel because they had no evidence. They truly had no forensic evidence, and they'd had his car, there was nothing at the abduction scene. Had they found Daniel any other way, the chances of proving it was him was pretty low ... surely if his criminal record and admission he drove past the underpass wasn't enough, I am not sure his link to that area would have been enough for trial, it would have been very circumstantial. Maybe in light of his prior convictions his demeanour in that taped interview with the female officer is slightly less damning, as he had a good reason to appear unsurprised to be there. But he couldn't even muster up a vehement denial or appear confident.

I think he fits the loser archetype way more than an evil alpha male. The strict father is a concern. He was probably a ****** kid who was dealt with harshly, not liked, sexually off from the start. Would have been great if someone knocked him on the head a few decades ago. Now we get to feed and house him forever and spend more money on legal processes for him.

 

[MsAnais]

Thanks that is some great info. Do you believe that some people are just born evil without any other factors coming into play? i.e upbringings etc?

Aha, contentious question!!!

I personally don't believe in anyone being born 'evil'. I don't believe any baby is born evil or 'bad'.

I do believe that certain people enter life with a predisposition to mental illness due to brain wiring - and that can be triggered or kicked off by life events. Research shows that many people's mental illness begins after a traumatic event, such as the loss of a loved one - or due to drug use. I believe those people had a biological predisposition to developing mental illness or personality disorders.

I also think that someone can be born with the same chemical predisposition but if they're born into a loving, healthy family and they learn to channel their emotions in valid ways eg. creative arts, they may never tip over into mental illness in the same way.

<modsnip>

But personally, I believe childhood has a HUGE part to play in how the adult turns out. Nature plus nurture - with a big emphasis on nurture IMO.:seeya:

 

[Seabreeze1]

Aha, contentious question!!!

I personally don't believe in anyone being born 'evil'. I don't believe any baby is born evil or 'bad'.

I do believe that certain people enter life with a predisposition to mental illness due to brain wiring - and that can be triggered or kicked off by life events. Research shows that many people's mental illness begins after a traumatic event, such as the loss of a loved one - or due to drug use. I believe those people had a biological predisposition to developing mental illness or personality disorders.

I also think that someone can be born with the same chemical predisposition but if they're born into a loving, healthy family and they learn to channel their emotions in valid ways eg. creative arts, they may never tip over into mental illness in the same way.

<modsnip>.

But personally, I believe childhood has a HUGE part to play in how the adult turns out. Nature plus nurture - with a big emphasis on nurture IMO.:seeya:

Thanks Iris

Another question, how common is it for a child to have experienced a traumatic event such as sexual or physical abuse or have witnessed a traumatic event that their mind has completely blocked any recollection out and then goes on to be an abuser. Is this possible?

 

[LadyBird1]

Yes, I saw that interview. It's such a prime example of the façade that a paedophile can have.

They don't typically look like the 'dirty old man' in a raincoat - they are all sorts of people. Whilst Cowan obviously wasn't, they are often 'respectable' people in responsible positions such as teachers, music teachers, sports teachers....anything with access to children.

And in my experience, they are often very engaging - particularly with children. They use that charm to groom and lure children. And that's partly why it's all so confusing for the victim - the person seems 'nice' or 'trustworthy' and is often 'likeable'.

That interview is such an important document IMO. You can see what a convincing liar he is.

And don't feel bad for thinking he's attractive!! In that interview he is!! The drug ravaged face evidently kicked in a bit later. He's well fed in the interview, so his face is fuller. Also, people seem to be able to do all sorts of things to their bodies without signs of it on the face until they hit their forties, I've noticed. Then it shows up. JMO.

Oh dear! I am horribly embarrassed to admit that my impressions after watching that interview: "What a lovely young man! Fresh faced, engaging smile, slightly cheeky and handsome to a degree:"

Next thought being: How in blue blazes does one recognize a paedophile or murderer?

Appears like they can't see much beyond their sexual depravations.
Put up some sort of public display of normality. Christian Church goer. A proper Marriage. The proper family man.

Appears underneath they think: Bugger the victims and bugger the Law. And bugger the family of the victim. To buggery with everything and everyone.
My question: WHY does the Law protect these people?

 

[fruity]

Has anyone else seen this?

http://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/give-daniel-morcombes-killer-death-own-hand-option/2199892/

Why on earth should that vile piece of filth have a quick and merciful death? He didn't afford that to Daniel or his other admitted 30+ victims.

While I know I am in the minority in that I don't support the death penalty or vigilante justice (though I wouldn't exactly mourn this guy undergoing either) I would be very happy to see his file stamped 'never to be released'. Let him think about it for the rest of his life in jail. Let him mourn the loss of his freedom. Let him regret everything he has done. He has no regret for his actions but you can be sure he is feeling very sorry for himself. Let him feel that until he dies.

Just moo of course.

 

[Seabreeze1]

Has anyone else seen this?

http://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/give-daniel-morcombes-killer-death-own-hand-option/2199892/

Why on earth should that vile piece of filth have a quick and merciful death? He didn't afford that to Daniel or his other admitted 30+ victims.

While I know I am in the minority in that I don't support the death penalty or vigilante justice (though I wouldn't exactly mourn this guy undergoing either) I would be very happy to see his file stamped 'never to be released'. Let him think about it for the rest of his life in jail. Let him mourn the loss of his freedom. Let him regret everything he has done. He has no regret for his actions but you can be sure he is feeling very sorry for himself. Let him feel that until he dies.


Just moo of course.

My disgust on that suggestion lies with why should that ….. have a choice of life or death, he gave poor Daniel no choice. I hope he has no choices in his future.

 

[MsAnais]

Thanks Iris

Another question, how common is it for a child to have experienced a traumatic event such as sexual or physical abuse or have witnessed a traumatic event that their mind has completely blocked any recollection out and then goes on to be an abuser. Is this possible?

Hi Seabreeze :seeya:

It's Isis, by the way, not Iris!:floorlaugh: That's funny because people always get my real name mixed up with another similar one! Same with my WS name, huh?!(not a big deal, btw, just thought I'd tell you.)

In answer to your question - it is very common for people to block out the memories of traumatic abuse. There are a variety of ways that people dissociate from past trauma, and one way is not to have any conscious recollection of it. That is why suppressed memories often emerge in therapy, when people begin delving into their subconscious.

And yes, these people can indeed go onto be abusers themselves as they are unconsciously acting out what happened to them.

 

[Seabreeze1]

Hi Seabreeze :seeya:

It's Isis, by the way, not Iris!:floorlaugh: That's funny because people always get my real name mixed up with another similar one! Same with my WS name, huh?!(not a big deal, btw, just thought I'd tell you.)

In answer to your question - it is very common for people to block out the memories of traumatic abuse. There are a variety of ways that people dissociate from past trauma, and one way is not to have any conscious recollection of it. That is why suppressed memories often emerge in therapy, when people begin delving into their subconscious.

And yes, these people can indeed go onto be abusers themselves as they are unconsciously acting out what happened to them.

Thank you Isis

I am so sorry for the name mistake:banghead::seeya:

 

[MsAnais]

Thank you Isis

I am so sorry for the name mistake:banghead::seeya:

No big deal at all!!:seeya:

 

[MsAnais]

Has anyone else seen this?

http://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/give-daniel-morcombes-killer-death-own-hand-option/2199892/

Why on earth should that vile piece of filth have a quick and merciful death? He didn't afford that to Daniel or his other admitted 30+ victims.

While I know I am in the minority in that I don't support the death penalty or vigilante justice (though I wouldn't exactly mourn this guy undergoing either) I would be very happy to see his file stamped 'never to be released'. Let him think about it for the rest of his life in jail. Let him mourn the loss of his freedom. Let him regret everything he has done. He has no regret for his actions but you can be sure he is feeling very sorry for himself. Let him feel that until he dies.

Just moo of course.

Completely agree, Fruity.