Australia - Frances Crawford 49, found dead after suspicious lawn mower accident in Queensland.

[SouthAussie]

The puzzle to me is, why didn't the police make an AVO application on her behalf.. ohhh, wait. Let me guess... SQ.L. Etc....

From what I am reading (because this puzzled me too) the court has the final say. No matter who applies for the AVO/DVO.


You can have a police officer, lawyer, friend or family member apply for you, or you can apply for a domestic violence order yourself.
Regardless of who applies, the court will make an order with the conditions it considers appropriate, and the police will enforce the order in the same way.

Domestic violence orders

How to apply for a domestic violence order including how the police apply and what happens if the order is breached.

www.qld.gov.au

 

[Trooper]

From what I am reading (because this puzzled me too) the court has the final say. No matter who applies for the AVO/DVO.


You can have a police officer, lawyer, friend or family member apply for you, or you can apply for a domestic violence order yourself.
Regardless of who applies, the court will make an order with the conditions it considers appropriate, and the police will enforce the order in the same way.

Domestic violence orders

How to apply for a domestic violence order including how the police apply and what happens if the order is breached.

www.qld.gov.au

The court must have heard some powerful , powerful message to have dismissed her application. She had agency, she had distinction, she had professional backing, she had standing... it seems to me to be a really radical call, and I can only presume he bought in , and no pun intended , all the big guns of the Air Force, the Au Defence Force, and god knows who else, to paint a picture of an upstanding character, ........it is hard to think of any reason why the court would roll over her on this matter.

 

[SouthAussie]

The court must have heard some powerful , powerful message to have dismissed her application. She had agency, she had distinction, she had professional backing, she had standing... it seems to me to be a really radical call, and I can only presume he bought in , and no pun intended , all the big guns of the Air Force, the Au Defence Force, and god knows who else, to paint a picture of an upstanding character, ........it is hard to think of any reason why the court would roll over her on this matter.

They certainly made a HUGE mistake ... whoever went to bat for him. Now a lovely woman is dead, her children have lost both parents, her parents have lost their child.

Courts should always err on the side of safety. imo

 

[Trooper]

It is, statistically, the most dangerous time for a woman, in AU , the moment she says she's leaving. .....

 

[acehard]

They certainly made a HUGE mistake ... whoever went to bat for him. Now a lovely woman is dead, her children have lost both parents, her parents have lost their child.

Courts should always err on the side of safety. imo

IMO they need to investigate what went wrong there

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO they need to investigate what went wrong there

They probably won't. Because it was an errant judge's ruling. Parole boards do a similar thing. Believe the crapola they are told, and let killers out early to kill again, let rapists out early to rape again. imo

But I hope that Frances' legacy is tighter protection for all women who need a DVO. That the people who supported his defence against a DVO always remember their part and NEVER play that part again. Because they hold some responsibility for Frances' death. They helped him to think that he could get away with anything.

imo

 

[acehard]

They probably won't. Because it was an errant judge's ruling. Parole boards do a similar thing. Believe the crapola they are told, and let killers out early to kill again, let rapists out early to rape again. imo

But I hope that Frances' legacy is tighter protection for all women who need a DVO. That the people who supported his defence against a DVO always remember their part and NEVER play that part again. Because they hold some responsibility for Frances' death. They helped him to think that he could get away with anything.

imo

Oh. I thought they would at least have the decency to investigate themselves and declare we did nothing wrong!
I agree, this might have given him false confidence

 

[Trooper]

They probably won't. Because it was an errant judge's ruling. Parole boards do a similar thing. Believe the crapola they are told, and let killers out early to kill again, let rapists out early to rape again. imo

But I hope that Frances' legacy is tighter protection for all women who need a DVO. That the people who supported his defence against a DVO always remember their part and NEVER play that part again. Because they hold some responsibility for Frances' death. They helped him to think that he could get away with anything.

imo

And how beaten down Frances must have felt. Where to turn?...what to do?? being sent off to marriage counselling.. this , for a narcissist , is merely another arena, another stage to strut around on, declaiming their own wonderfulness....

I'm with you, SA. the impression that Frances wanted him to leave and for some reason, he refused to leave , that she wanted the marriage to end, as it can, without argument, in AU, and he did not want it to end... He is a deeply weird person, in every aspect......

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The scary thing is that he is not so weird, there seem to be many men like him who have left a trail of dead women as their legacy.

 

[Charlot123]

They certainly made a HUGE mistake ... whoever went to bat for him. Now a lovely woman is dead, her children have lost both parents, her parents have lost their child.

Courts should always err on the side of safety. imo

To add, if someone big in the Air Defence Force pushed the gun to get AVO dismissed a year ago, this action now led RC's behavior explode in their faces!

I think it could have been RC's personal friend or someone close enough to have the reason to sweep the case under the rug, but that very act ended up in a much bigger scandal. Now RC is no merely a pilot with personality issues ending in AVO and maybe a marriage dissolution, big deal...now it is a murder case and all RC's trips are listed in MM.

I understand why ADF washed their hands off him so quickly this time (good for them nonetheless). However, i believe that there will be an internal investigation and whoever protected him the last time will get certain comeuppance.

This being said, I can't blame AFD extensively. I suspect that it takes a lot of time and money to train a good pilot, be it military or commercial. They simply cost a lot. I think that his philandering (dangerous as it is) and maybe some other out-of-control behaviors were overlooked by AFD because to replace him as a pilot would have been very costly. I am thinking in $$$$ terms as: the rare qualities a person has to possess to do this job + education + military experience + willingness to continue serving + some leadership qualities. One has to overlook some flaws in a good pilot; in this case, it was obviously RC's personal life.

I hope that as with all air industry, the inner investigation will lead to some changes, such as relaxing access to therapy for pilots, such things.

 

[Charlot123]

And how beaten down Frances must have felt. Where to turn?...what to do?? being sent off to marriage counselling.. this , for a narcissist , is merely another arena, another stage to strut around on, declaiming their own wonderfulness....

I'm with you, SA. the impression that Frances wanted him to leave and for some reason, he refused to leave , that she wanted the marriage to end, as it can, without argument, in AU, and he did not want it to end... He is a deeply weird person, in every aspect......

You know, for him it was simply easy to miss them. Another trip, and a family session is canceled. Plus, as I suspect, any decent therapist, seeing this guy in person, would have inevitably come up with the referral to a psychiatrist, but RC could always block it saying that his career would suffer, and it is true. It is a very complex situation.

Some changes are long-needed.

Honestly, intuitively I feel that RC belongs into the group that could have used mental health as defense. However, he crossed out that line of defence, it is null and void since he staged an accident. Even if his staging was idiotic, he still knew right from wrong.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

New details emerge after RAAF pilot accused of murdering his wife

Robert Crawford, 47, allegedly killed his wife Frances, 49, at their rural property in Upper Lockyer, south-east Queensland , at 3.40am on July 30.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A RAAF pilot accused of murdering his wife had previously undergone marriage counselling after she became aware of his infidelity, police will allege.

 

[KrystalKlear]

I’m seeing more than a few commonalities between RJC and GBC…. They were both a couple of years junior to their wives. Both fond of spruiking their talents/abilities. Both fond of multiple “bits on the side”. Both ended up in marriage counselling, once their “infidelities came to light”. Thoughts?

 

[Marg944]

It would seem there is only one remand centre that Robert Crawford would be staying at,

Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre​

Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre (AGCC) is the current remand centre for south-east Queensland. The function of the remand centre is to hold alleged offenders in custody by court order, while awaiting or attending a criminal trial.

AGCC operations are focused on rehabilitating prisoners by providing offender development programs and support, as well as meaningful activity, including prison industries, to help them develop useful life and work skills to assist with their successful reintegration to the community on release.

Security level:High security

Street address:3068 Ipswich Road
Wacol QLD 4076

Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre

Location and contact details for Queensland’s correctional centres.

www.qld.gov.au

 

[Charlot123]

I’m seeing more than a few commonalities between RJC and GBC…. They were both a couple of years junior to their wives. Both fond of spruiking their talents/abilities. Both fond of multiple “bits on the side”. Both ended up in marriage counselling, once their “infidelities came to light”. Thoughts?

Two years difference is probably less important, especially if a woman is popular and sure of herself. I see them being the couple where Frances was the quieter one. With her job, her three kids and her community activity, she probably satisfied her need for social interactions outside of the house. I suspect that their house was rather quiet and solitary. RC, on the opposite end, was gregarious and, JMO, would prefer to have more guests, parties, friends coming in. He also appears like a very high-energy person, somewhat exhausting, if I could make a guess. I wonder if it was not only his love of women but his overall high extraversion that fueled these trips. Francis might be tired of him constantly being in-your-face and feeling relaxed when he'd leave - even before true problems would start.
Nothing of it seems to be indicative of a murder or even DV, of course. Simply, while Frances was self-reliant and self-sufficient and probably, the type of a person who, when bored, would easily find a new hobby, her husband seemingly needed the whole world to constantly validate his existence. JMO, MOO, of course.

 

[Bear13]

Two years difference is probably less important, especially if a woman is popular and sure of herself. I see them being the couple where Frances was the quieter one. With her job, her three kids and her community activity, she probably satisfied her need for social interactions outside of the house. I suspect that their house was rather quiet and solitary. RC, on the opposite end, was gregarious and, JMO, would prefer to have more guests, parties, friends coming in. He also appears like a very high-energy person, somewhat exhausting, if I could make a guess. I wonder if it was not only his love of women but his overall high extraversion that fueled these trips. Francis might be tired of him constantly being in-your-face and feeling relaxed when he'd leave - even before true problems would start.
Nothing of it seems to be indicative of a murder or even DV, of course. Simply, while Frances was self-reliant and self-sufficient and probably, the type of a person who, when bored, would easily find a new hobby, her husband seemingly needed the whole world to constantly validate his existence. JMO, MOO, of course.

I tend to agree. I also wonder though if the home was very military like, lots of rules to abide by, strict boundaries etc. I also wonder if the kids all left home at a very young age to escape the harshness that Sqn Ldr RC enforced on the household. It would be a melting pot every time he returned from deployment. Everyone walking on egg shells. My first thoughts when it was released about a ‘mower accident’, that possibly he had recently returned from an overseas conquest and FC hadn’t kept up her part of the bargain (on the long list of her duties, was keeping the lawns perfect). Possibly his lame excuse to Police was that there was a fight about FC not doing the mowing and during the middle of the night to make him happy she went out and mowed the lawn and a tragic accident happened. Yeah right! My blood boils he could hurt such an innocent, apparently unique and lovely person. IMO

 

[Charlot123]

I tend to agree. I also wonder though if the home was very military like, lots of rules to abide by, strict boundaries etc. I also wonder if the kids all left home at a very young age to escape the harshness that Sqn Ldr RC enforced on the household. It would be a melting pot every time he returned from deployment. Everyone walking on egg shells. My first thoughts when it was released about a ‘mower accident’, that possibly he had recently returned from an overseas conquest and FC hadn’t kept up her part of the bargain (on the long list of her duties, was keeping the lawns perfect). Possibly his lame excuse to Police was that there was a fight about FC not doing the mowing and during the middle of the night to make him happy she went out and mowed the lawn and a tragic accident happened. Yeah right! My blood boils he could hurt such an innocent, apparently unique and lovely person. IMO

She stayed with him for so long because she was innocent, unique, and lovely. Anyone less than that would have left a long time ago.

 

[SouthAussie]

She stayed with him for so long because she was innocent, unique, and lovely. Anyone less than that would have left a long time ago.

Sometimes people try to help people "fix" themselves. Frances was a psychologist. She likely was his backbone, his support. And he destroyed her. Probably when she had decided enough was enough.

imo

 

[Trooper]

It feels like we are moving backwards on violence against women. Are we becoming desensitised? | Kate Fitz-Gibbon

The intensity of fatal attacks on women has reached crisis levels over the last decade. We must remember that they are preventable

www.theguardian.com

''
Throughout this year the increase in number of women allegedly killed by men known to them has been wide reaching – it serves as a critical reminder that violence against women affects all sections of the Australian community. Deaths have occurred across Australian states and territories, and spanned rural and metropolitan areas.

The knowledge we have so far about the alleged killings shows the range of different circumstances in which women come to be killed, most often by men known to them. Indeed, that is perhaps the one commonality in these cases – that when a woman is killed the alleged use of fatal violence is most likely by a man whom not only was known to her, but whom she once trusted as a former or current intimate partner.'


( In the light of all that is known, and it's not just a niche knowing, it's public knowledge, magistrates surely must be aware , if not deeply cognisant , even more so than the general public , of the propensity of any man to provoke fear in any woman, and if a woman is bringing a case to court, asking for an AVO, what the hell is a magistrate doing knocking it back? what was put in place , to protect Frances, instead?... if it was just 'marriage counselling' then this is a systemic failure of courts , in general. Courts, magistrates, clerks, courthouses, all this stuff costs taxpayers mega dollars, year in , year out, and is it being wisely spent??

I am at a loss to accept that a court was permitted to dismiss Frances's case.... if it was to 'save his career', then what cost is the community prepared to pay for one mans 'career'?? Not one more dollar, in my book. ).

 

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