Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #3

[Oz Jen]

According to SR's 3AW interview (which I now can't find) BR and KR had a heated discussion about finances and when a sale at the shop was suggested, KR went "ballistic."

The shop advertised a sale on June 14, a clearance sale with 50% off selected items. I would have thought that on June 29, the day KR was reported missing, the sale would still be on or had just finished?
Either way, it's strange that a sale would have been suggested at that time.

 

[Pepper77]

It sounds to me very much like what we have previously said, that Karen liked keeping up appearances. My best friend since 4 is like this, I heard of trouble in her life through third parties growing up, but never from her, then her entire world came crashing down when her husband was arrested for pedophilia (SHOCK) .. But she didn't even tell me about that for 10 years until she finally decided to divorce him, then she told me all the secrets she had kept for the sake of appearances over the years and it was devastating .. Cut to a few years in the future and she has a new man and she's the same exact way as she was, just keeping up appearances. It's very isolating for the person who feels like they have to live this way, my friend admitted if she'd been able to open up she'd have divorced her husband sooner and life would be better, but it's impossible to change it really.

It happens more often than people realise, Mrs G Norris ... I've known a handful of people over the years who've been the 'keeping up appearances' type who you'll never get to know intimately but suspect that it's a charade because some things they say or do just don't add up.

That Daily Mail article from the viewpoint of the 'friend' who wishes to remain anonymous is annoying. Why not publicly state who they are? What's the big deal? If my friend was missing I wouldn't hide behind anonymity. And as Hbayne pointed out above, maybe Sarah knows where her mother is, so why even mention her? (Indeed, Sarah may not know; I guess we'll never be privy to that). The way that people keep talking about 'Oh, Karen would never leave her daughter' is nonsense in that Sarah is a 21 year old woman, not a 7 year old child. Underneath that Daily Mail article was a comment from another 'friend' who said she hadn't seen Karen in some time, and also maintained the 'Karen wouldn't leave her daughter' opinion. Call me a cynic but I just see all these 'anonymous friends' and 'unnamed sources' and think BS. If you're her friend, you care about her and you want her found then front up and say who you are - otherwise how do we know that you're not just some random person trying to get your own 15 minutes of fame?

Just in the past few hours I've had a bit of a sinking feeling about Karen. At first I was convinced that she'd gone off to gather her thoughts and/or start a new life, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe she did do that at the outset but then all the revelations about her finances and family conflict were made public which caused her to go over the edge (as a proud person that would've left her feeling helpless). I really hope I'm wrong in that respect.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yes Pepper77 it's just very sad and unnecessary, people can tell something is off anyway, I've had moments (months long moments) of being very infuriated at my friend for what I think of as 'living a lie', but I know it's based on insecurity about being accepted and a family background of social climbing IMO, and really isn't something she can change now.

If Karen wasn't murdered she has killed herself and managed to do so either remotely or concealed, I can see no other outcome.

 

[moreinfo]

Maybe AR suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, due to long-term drug use, and everything he's said is a figment of his imagination .... I mean, his posts read like something out of a Batman and Robin comic. He may even have KR hostage up the bush or something, in a farmhouse, who knows, wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Sounds like AR doesnt have a car though. He's had an interview conducted from his house at Diggers rest, and has caught buses.
what im not clear about is if he had a car prior to 29 June?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Well, that's the end of that dumb theory, hee ..... I do recall reading that he just got his P's on the very day KR went missing, but yes, he may not have a car, good point. Back to the 'ol drawing board .......

 

[Makara]

So, perhaps Karen was reported missing the following day? As I would think that the family would have called all friends and checked everywhere that could be checked prior to calling the police, because Karen was an adult that could have been taking some time to cool down.


“When her daughter asked me to let her know if I heard from her because she ‘didn’t come home yesterday’, I thought maybe she is cooling down.

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...y/news-story/9d6c14402c28f6677ac7e5b9d9139ff8

It's frustrating to not know when Karen was actually reported missing. Perhaps Karen did go for a walk as BR said. She returned home hours later and another argument ensued with deadly results. Karen was removed from the house under the cover of darkness on the evening of the 29 June and was reported missing the next day.

 

[they'll get you]

I have been following this case,but have been very reluctant to voice what I see and feel.
Of course from the start,Borce was number one suspect.But,what if,it was not him?.
Who would he cover for?.
Go back and watch the interview,with the aunty speaking to the media.
Focus on Sarah.What do you see?.
Lack of eye contact?.Remorse and sorrow?.Why no heart felt pleads,for her mother to return?.After all,she is her only child!.Sarah's own statement!.
Remember,she is 21.Why is she not making the pleas?.
Yes,Sarah has made pleas by radio,but,the body language is hidden,by doing so.


As for AR,once again,I see something very different.Step familys,intertwined,can make for toxic environments for some children.
Especially,if there is a golden child and a scapegoat situation.
Which is why I could see,AR,getting in first.Airing all the dirty laundry,warts and all.Putting everything out into the world.
I believe,he is being honest.
Drug abuse,self medicating his inner child-goes hand in hand.

Excellent post.

Sarah is 21 years old.

I focused on Sarah and saw

1) no tears
2) a frown
3) eyes down, no eye contact
4) a pout
5) shaking of head when anticipated a question.

 

[SouthAussie]

It's frustrating to not know when Karen was actually reported missing. Perhaps Karen did go for a walk as BR said. She returned home hours later and another argument ensued with deadly results. Karen was removed from the house under the cover of darkness on the evening of the 29 June and was reported missing the next day.

I keep thinking about some statement analysis I read that comments on how BR did not try to elaborate on/justify Karen going upstairs, <nothing else>, then coming down the stairs and leaving, when he elaborated on everything else. Did something happen on that staircase or upstairs?

I mean, how long was she upstairs? Did he see her come down? Or just heard her leave? Had she changed clothes? Some elaboration could have easily been inserted, when he had clearly tried to explain away everything else.

 

[JLZ]

I keep thinking about some statement analysis I read that comments on how BR did not try to elaborate on/justify Karen going upstairs, <nothing else>, then coming down the stairs and leaving, when he elaborated on everything else. Did something happen on that staircase or upstairs?

I mean, how long was she upstairs? Did he see her come down? Or just heard her leave? Had she changed clothes? Some elaboration could have easily been inserted, when he had clearly tried to explain away everything else.

But wasn't he downstairs? How would he know what Karen did upstairs?

 

[SouthAussie]

But wasn't he downstairs? How would he know what Karen did upstairs?

I am not insinuating that he knew exactly everything that she did up there. But he surely knew about how long she was up there, and could possibly have seen any differences in her when she came down. (Was up there for about 10 mins, an hour ..... and/or changed clothes, grabbed her handbag, put her shoes on, whatever ... )
As I said, if you look at what he said, he explains everything else. Eg: she always came back, we argued over the sales, she'd had a bad day. But the stairs, she just went up them, then came down.

.

 

[Melbourne Lass]

Excellent post.

Sarah is 21 years old.

I focused on Sarah and saw

1) no tears
2) a frown
3) eyes down, no eye contact
4) a pout
5) shaking of head when anticipated a question.

I respectfully disagree that this body language means Sarah is hiding something or is guilty. Loved ones tend to experience five stages of emotions in relation to grief and loss. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. This is based on Elisabeth Kubler Ross's five stages of grief model.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model

These stages are not linear stages. It is possible Sarah was feeling depressed and numb. The shake of the head could have been denial. This press conference was two weeks after Karen's disappearance. The initial hope of Karen's quick return would have faded. Also, the shock in response to Karen's disappearance may still have been felt by Sarah.

MOO.

 

[JLZ]

If he'd known she was about to disappear no doubt he would have paid more attention. I think he was trying to be relevant and factual, and not introduce speculation.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Excellent post.

Sarah is 21 years old.

I focused on Sarah and saw

1) no tears
2) a frown
3) eyes down, no eye contact
4) a pout
5) shaking of head when anticipated a question.

I agree, I noticed that too. I also had a "what in the world!!" moment when I first saw VR visiting the house with a food parcel ..... seemed more like he was off to the teddy bear's picnic rather than offering brotherly support .... seemed bouncy and jovial ..... just my opinion, actually did a double-take when I saw him.

 

[Oz Jen]

I respectfully disagree that this body language means Sarah is hiding something or is guilty. Loved ones tend to experience five stages of emotions in relation to grief and loss. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. This is based on Elisabeth Kubler Ross's five stages of grief model.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model

These stages are not linear stages. It is possible Sarah was feeling depressed and numb. The shake of the head could have been denial. This press conference was two weeks after Karen's disappearance. The initial hope of Karen's quick return would have faded. Also, the shock in response to Karen's disappearance may still have been felt by Sarah.

MOO.

I agree MelLass. I just saw shock, numbness and confusion from SR.

Everyone experiences grief and/or loss in their own way. There is no formula, no timeframes or rules.

Having said that, I still find it strange that the argument between KR and BR supposedly included a suggestion for the store to have a sale. Allegedly KR went "ballistic" according to SR's 3AW interview.
Odd, considering the store had advertised a Clearance Sale, 50% off selected items on June 14.

 

[Oz Jen]

I gather that KR's immediate family and inner circle are extremely private, where maintaining 'the image' is everything.

Clearly, her friends did not really know her that well.

Insular family units often present very differently to extended family, friends and colleagues.

 

[Unit45]

Still there is no information as to whether SR was home the night before or even the morning of the 29th.

Im sure the Police have had this information from Day 1.

 

[Makara]

I agree MelLass. I just saw shock, numbness and confusion from SR.

Everyone experiences grief and/or loss in their own way. There is no formula, no timeframes or rules.

Having said that, I still find it strange that the argument between KR and BR supposedly included a suggestion for the store to have a sale. Allegedly KR went "ballistic" according to SR's 3AW interview.
Odd, considering the store had advertised a Clearance Sale, 50% off selected items on June 14.

It may simply have been a case of further discounting the items in store. It was the end of the financial year and surplus stock would have to be moved. Karen would most likely have already bought her spring stock and wanted to get that in store to recoup her outlay.

 

[Makara]

Still there is no information as to whether SR was home the night before or even the morning of the 29th.

Im sure the Police have had this information from Day 1.

Yes, the police would know but it's frustrating that we don't. :thinking: It's possible that SR, when talking about her mother going ballistic at BR, was simply stating what she'd been told by her father and wasn't actually there.

 

[Hbayne]

Sarah's comment about mum going ballistic whether she was there or not seems an odd way to talk about your missing mums behavior

 

[JLZ]

I gather that KR's immediate family and inner circle are extremely private, where maintaining 'the image' is everything.

Clearly, her friends did not really know her that well.

Insular family units often present very differently to extended family, friends and colleagues.

People running their own small businesses are often extremely busy. I don't see evidence that KR and family are especially 'private', secretive or unsocial. And while the business would involve an image and marketing aspect, I'm far from convinced that in relation to their personal lives "maintaining 'the image' is everything". So Karen didn't complain about her husband or their money. Perhaps she was happy, hopeful and resilient.